Help review my gapping/launch monitor numbers!

[canuker]

Hi all, 

I got on a golf sim for the first time today (GC Quad) to check my gapping. 

I'm currently playing a set of 5i-LW Wishon EQ1-NX single length irons with DG S300 shafts. 

One of the main things I was looking to get from this session was to decide wether or not to drop my 5i. I noticed it often flew almost the same as my 6i, but I get better strikes on my 6i a lot more consistently. I think i confirmed my hunch and will be dropping the 5i for a 5h to narrow the gap between my 6i and 5w.

I'd love some insight into these numbers overall though and to see if anything else jumps out as a potential area to optimize. I know next to nothing about theses sorts of things. Just learning.

I hit at least 10 shots with each club and removed an egregious outliers.


Additional info:

I'm a high handicapper with a 85mph-90mph 7 irons swing speed. I also tend to be a bit of a sweeper/picker if that's at all relevant. I could probably get more distance if I learned to compress the ball better.


Cheers!

[TKS]

confirm on grass, gaps look ok. yes, get the hybrid 5. A man must know his limits.

Edited August 19, 2024 by TKS

[Stuart_G]

5 hours ago, canuker said:

I got on a golf sim for the first time today (GC Quad) to check my gapping.

 

Hitting off grass or a mat?

 

The spin (and therefore the distances) wont be reliable off of most mats - unless maybe you tee up the ball a small amount.

 

[Jtgavigan]

If you are swinging 7i at 85-90, your ball speed looks low. As you stated, need to look at contact/compression. Gaps look ok to me.

 

Your wedges are within 2 yards of mine, but I hit my 7i 170 to 180 (34°, so not overly strong). My ball speeds are in the low to mid 120s on average, and club speeds in the low to mid 90s. Your smash factor is very low. 

[canuker]

12 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Hitting off grass or a mat?

 

The spin (and therefore the distances) wont be reliable off of most mats - unless maybe you tee up the ball a small amount.

 

Off mats indoors.

[canuker]

10 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

If you are swinging 7i at 85-90, your ball speed looks low. As you stated, need to look at contact/compression. Gaps look ok to me.

 

Your wedges are within 2 yards of mine, but I hit my 7i 170 to 180 (34°, so not overly strong). My ball speeds are in the low to mid 120s on average, and club speeds in the low to mid 90s. Your smash factor is very low. 

Yeah this has been an issue with me for a little while. I'm very shallow. My AOA is rarely less that -0.05 with my irons. I'm a chronic sweeper/thinner of the golf ball.

I hadn't made a converted effort to address this until, well, basically now. This is my number one area of focus for my swing going forward this season. 

I only have access to a mat range so I think I've subconsciously maintained a shallow swing as a result.  

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, canuker said:

Off mats indoors.

 

Then I suggest if you want to get useful numbers for gaping, you need to tee the ball up a little bit.

 

something like this is one option I've found to work well:  https://www.sennagolftee.com/

 

[Streuner]

Are the results outdoor on course confirming the dry matt data from indoor…? 

the i5 is a club a lot of players struggle with, me included… on the other hand my 5 hybrid 25* is one of the most consistent clubs in my bag.
 

Skip the i5 and try to find an alternative, 9 wood or 5 hybrid, utility iron, what ever fill that gap between 171y and 200y. 185y is the golden middle, that you should fill. 

[Jtgavigan]

13 hours ago, canuker said:

Yeah this has been an issue with me for a little while. I'm very shallow. My AOA is rarely less that -0.05 with my irons. I'm a chronic sweeper/thinner of the golf ball.

I hadn't made a converted effort to address this until, well, basically now. This is my number one area of focus for my swing going forward this season. 

I only have access to a mat range so I think I've subconsciously maintained a shallow swing as a result.  

Gotcha. I would look into some lessons with a good pro and I think dropping the 5i is a good idea. A friend of mine who plays at right around scratch has done what you are thinking and put in a hybrid instead of a 5i. He loves the set up. 

[Stuart_G]

53 minutes ago, Jtgavigan said:

Gotcha. I would look into some lessons with a good pro and I think dropping the 5i is a good idea. A friend of mine who plays at right around scratch has done what you are thinking and put in a hybrid instead of a 5i. He loves the set up. 

 

What's the loft gap between your 6i and 7i?    In lots of modern sets that drops down to 3* - which isn't really enough for all but the faster swing speed players to get a good distance gap.

 

I dropped the 5i recently - but my swing speed was down to below 90 with the driver.  You should still have sufficient speed to use a 5i - IF you can manage to get good consistent center face contact.  So get out the foot powder spray and check that before making any decisions.   The potential problem with going to a hybrid is that you can end up with too big of a gap between the 6i and the hybrid, at least without some modifications (more loft or cutting down the hybrid playing length).

[Jtgavigan]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

What's the loft gap between your 6i and 7i?    In lots of modern sets that drops down to 3* - which isn't really enough for all but the faster swing speed players to get a good distance gap.

 

I dropped the 5i recently - but my swing speed was down to below 90 with the driver.  You should still have sufficient speed to use a 5i - IF you can manage to get good consistent center face contact.  So get out the foot powder spray and check that before making any decisions.   The potential problem with going to a hybrid is that you can end up with too big of a gap between the 6i and the hybrid, at least without some modifications (more loft or cutting down the hybrid playing length).

He has plenty of speed still. He is still hitting 8i 155-160 and is carrying driver 270-280. He has lost some efficiency with his irons. He used to be longer than me with irons and we were the same on driver. Now, he hits driver longer than me and I am 1 club longer with irons. 

[Jtgavigan]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

What's the loft gap between your 6i and 7i?    In lots of modern sets that drops down to 3* - which isn't really enough for all but the faster swing speed players to get a good distance gap.

 

I dropped the 5i recently - but my swing speed was down to below 90 with the driver.  You should still have sufficient speed to use a 5i - IF you can manage to get good consistent center face contact.  So get out the foot powder spray and check that before making any decisions.   The potential problem with going to a hybrid is that you can end up with too big of a gap between the 6i and the hybrid, at least without some modifications (more loft or cutting down the hybrid playing length).

my lofts are 44 (PW), 40, 36, 32, 28, 25, 22 (4i), so 3 degrees from 5-6 for me. I still see a 10y gap (110-115 driver speed). I misquoted earlier my 7i loft.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Jtgavigan

[driveandputtmachine]

It doesn't always work, but a pretty decent rule of thumb through the irons is to have a 4 degree of ballspeed difference.  Now playing different types of shots can negate this some, but most people I have seen and myself for stock shots I try to have that 4 degree from GW to my longest iron.  This usually gives good distance gaps no matter the SS of the player, or at the very least is a good place to start.  GW-SW and SW-LW I am not as worried about it.

 

My thoughts would be your GW to PW is too large a gap and PW to 9 iron is too small.  Check your lofts, the PW may be stronger, or maybe you just weaken it a degree or two.

 

The other big outlier is the 5 iron, not only is the ball speed low, but the descent angle is a bit shallower than I would like to see, anytime I see the longest iron under that descent angle I start to recommend a hybrid or lofted fairway wood.  Your delivery will determine what loft and length and type of club best fits that distance you need for that spot.

 

 

[canuker]

11 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Then I suggest if you want to get useful numbers for gaping, you need to tee the ball up a little bit.

 

something like this is one option I've found to work well:  https://www.sennagolftee.com/

 

Oh this is interesting. Curious if this would make sense for the range too. I can just focus on downward angle a little more without worrying about jarring my wrists. 

Might pair this with a TEECLAW to keep it from flying all over the place at the range. 

This reminds me of how Milo and Malaska always use a low tee in their lessons....

[canuker]

3 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

It doesn't always work, but a pretty decent rule of thumb through the irons is to have a 4 degree of ballspeed difference.  Now playing different types of shots can negate this some, but most people I have seen and myself for stock shots I try to have that 4 degree from GW to my longest iron.  This usually gives good distance gaps no matter the SS of the player, or at the very least is a good place to start.  GW-SW and SW-LW I am not as worried about it.

 

My thoughts would be your GW to PW is too large a gap and PW to 9 iron is too small.  Check your lofts, the PW may be stronger, or maybe you just weaken it a degree or two.

 

The other big outlier is the 5 iron, not only is the ball speed low, but the descent angle is a bit shallower than I would like to see, anytime I see the longest iron under that descent angle I start to recommend a hybrid or lofted fairway wood.  Your delivery will determine what loft and length and type of club best fits that distance you need for that spot.

 

 

Good catch on the 9i/PW/GW spread. 

The 5i is definitely on the chopping block. This is a common issue with the one length irons. Getting the right height out of a 36.5" 5i is tricky. 

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

He has plenty of speed still.

 

Plenty for a 5i or even a 4i in his bag - sure.  But enough for a 3* loft gap to be sufficient?   Doesn't look like it's working out for him from my perspective.   And there is not enough data to say where the distance is being lost for the OP (not to mention how questionable the data is since he got it hitting directly off mats).   

 

But regardless, adjusting the loft gaps in the high end of the set (5i and maybe even 6i) to more than the pitiful 3* in modern sets have is always one possible option to achieve the OP's goals of closing the gap between the 5i and 5w.   Whether it's enough or not, only trying it will answer that question.  But it's certainly a lot cheaper test than buying a whole new club.

 

 

17 hours ago, Jtgavigan said:

my lofts are 44 (PW), 40, 36, 32, 28, 25, 22 (4i), so 3 degrees from 5-6 for me. I still see a 10y gap (110-115 driver speed). I misquoted earlier my 7i loft.

 

Sorry - don't take this the wrong way, but this is not really about you and your gaps, rather it's about the op and his gaps.  Everyone's different.  Just because there might be some similarities, that doesn't mean things will work equally well between different individuals.

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by Stuart_G

[Jtgavigan]

1 minute ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I never said he didn't.   And there is not enough data to say where the distance is being lost for the OP (not to mention how questionable the data is when hitting directly off mats).   

 

But regardless, adjusting the loft gaps in the high end of the set (5i and maybe even 6i) to more than the pitiful 3* in modern sets have is always one possible option to achieve the OP's goals of closing the gap between the 5i and 5w.   Whether it's enough or not, only trying it will answer that question.  But it's certainly a lot cheaper test than buying a whole new club.

 

 

 

Sorry - don't take this the wrong way, but this is not really about you and your gaps, rather it's about the op and his gaps.  Everyone's different.  Just because there might be some similarities, that doesn't mean things will work equally well between different individuals.

 

Agreed and no worries. I wanted to point out to the OP that even better players with speed have made the switch he is contemplating, so he shouldn't have any apprehension of doing it.

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, canuker said:

Oh this is interesting. Curious if this would make sense for the range too. I can just focus on downward angle a little more without worrying about jarring my wrists.

 

It couldn't hurt, but it's more for getting accurate spin and launch numbers.   I wouldn't think it would do much to reducing the abuse to the wrists.  But you never know.

 

[canuker]

I'll be making a trip back to the Sim at some point and will hit off a very low tee (senna or "flat-tee) to see if that gives better numbers. 

I've also been drilling low point religiously since I posted this and I'm happy to say I've adjust well. The towel behind the golf ball trick at the range has helped me focus on landing left and rotating through. Had a great ball striking day on the course yesterday as a result. 

I'll likely pick up the 5H either way though. I'm about to pull the trigger on a full Maltby set and for an extxra $100 I might as well add it to the bag to give myself options if needed. 

[canuker]

On 8/20/2024 at 2:45 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Then I suggest if you want to get useful numbers for gaping, you need to tee the ball up a little bit.

 

something like this is one option I've found to work well:  https://www.sennagolftee.com/

 

Can you measure how how these sit off the ground? Emailed them but no response.

[Stuart_G]

3 hours ago, canuker said:

Can you measure how how these sit off the ground? Emailed them but no response.

 

Just from memory, I'd say around 3/16"  but I'll try and find one to measure later in the day if I find the chance.  I should have some sitting around some place.   I haven't needed them since I switched to a fiberbuilt mat.

Edited August 22, 2024 by Stuart_G