Fitzpatrick cracked driver ruling a disgrace...

[grm24]

Not taking any side. Just providing the PGA Tour explantation for context. Make of it what you will/want to.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/latest/2024/08/25/why-matt-fitzpatrick-was-unable-to-replace-cracked-driver-at-bmw-championship-rules-ruling-explained-fracture

 

PGA TOUR Chief Referee Stephen Cox said a "minor crack" was visible on the face of Fitzpatrick's driver. While a crack can impact the club's performance, it does not meet the threshold of being "significantly damaged" that would allow it to be replaced under the USGA's Model Local Rule G-9. The rule provides examples of when a club may be replaced, while also stating that "a club face or clubhead is not 'broken or significantly damaged' solely because it is cracked."

 

“The rule details a number of situations where the club would be allowed to be replaced, but the rule states that a crack in and of itself does not meet the threshold of being significantly damaged," Cox said. "In our assessment -- not only the first official, but also a couple of others including myself -- that threshold of being significantly damaged hadn't been met. Although there was a small crack in the face, there was no separation in the metals and on that basis that threshold wasn't met."

[Valtiel]

Silly rule that should be updated. Without the driver undergoing a COR/CT test they are basically admitting that performance doesn't matter, it just has to look visually bad enough to satisfy them for reasons. 

[Llortamaisey]

34 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Silly rule that should be updated. Without the driver undergoing a COR/CT test they are basically admitting that performance doesn't matter, it just has to look visually bad enough to satisfy them for reasons. 

I completely agree with your assessment. I’ve been racking my brain trying to think of any scenario where a crack on the face of a modern driver wouldn’t be significant. Sure, you could have a crack in the paint that I could see being insignificant, but there’s no paint on the TSi face, just etching. The rules official on TV definitely said it was cracked after inspection, just not cracked enough. Any metal crack on the face that can be visually confirmed is going to be enough to change the performance of the club significantly. 

[Port and Starboard]

As thin as a the faces are on today's drivers, It is easy to see how the COR could easily be affected by even the smallest crack. 

 

Depending on the pattern of the cracking, I could see directional control being affected as well.

 

Fitzy got a unfair ruling IMO.

[bcjim]

6 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

But they can grab a new bat anytime they like. 
 

Seriously though. A pro hits a 220 yard drive but his club isn’t broken? Ridiculous. 

The drive on 8 was 289 and partly because it caught the rough. It's not clear the crack made much difference and it certainly wasn't 80y short or 220y.  

[MattyO1984]

Ridiculous rule! I was quite glad that Fitz went on to hit the driver after being denied the change just to prove his point. Sadly, things like this just show up golf for being golf. Those that make the rules never seem to be able to get out of their own way and this is just another example of it. 

[Ferguson]

Rules.

Without them, we live with the animals. 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

5 hours ago, grm24 said:

Not taking any side. Just providing the PGA Tour explantation for context. Make of it what you will/want to.

 

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/latest/2024/08/25/why-matt-fitzpatrick-was-unable-to-replace-cracked-driver-at-bmw-championship-rules-ruling-explained-fracture

 

PGA TOUR Chief Referee Stephen Cox said a "minor crack" was visible on the face of Fitzpatrick's driver. While a crack can impact the club's performance, it does not meet the threshold of being "significantly damaged" that would allow it to be replaced under the USGA's Model Local Rule G-9. The rule provides examples of when a club may be replaced, while also stating that "a club face or clubhead is not 'broken or significantly damaged' solely because it is cracked."

 

“The rule details a number of situations where the club would be allowed to be replaced, but the rule states that a crack in and of itself does not meet the threshold of being significantly damaged," Cox said. "In our assessment -- not only the first official, but also a couple of others including myself -- that threshold of being significantly damaged hadn't been met. Although there was a small crack in the face, there was no separation in the metals and on that basis that threshold wasn't met."

 

Thanks. This statement,

 

“a club face or clubhead is not 'broken or significantly damaged' solely because it is cracked."

 

This language is clearly, factually, inaccurate in many, if not most, instances. 
 

Needs to be rewritten and the rule enforced with different criteria. 

[dropkicked]

Growing the game with antiquated rules.

 

[dmecca2]

Apparently, without this rule, manufacturers would make the faces of their tour clubs very thin. This would produce the best launch conditions, but they would break more often. Of course tour players don't care, they can pack 10 extra drivers and not worry about it.

[dropkicked]

Baseball bat breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary.

Hockey stick breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary

Tennis racquet breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary

 

Golf club breaks/damaged: keep playing you wuss... 🤣

[SlothofDespond]

3 hours ago, Ferguson said:

Rules.

Without them, we live with the animals. 

 

 

 

Yes, except, rules could be changed so they're not arbitrary nonsense. I'm glad to see stuff like this though. It erodes any sort of respect for the sanctity of USGA rules. Keep chipping away and someday the mighty will fall.

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, bcjim said:

The drive on 8 was 289 and partly because it caught the rough. It's not clear the crack made much difference and it certainly wasn't 80y short or 220y.  

At 6300 feet though?  IMO the rules official made the only ruling he could…by rule it wasn’t cracked “enough”.  
But the rule should be changed.

Edited August 26, 2024 by Shilgy

[gvogel]

I wonder if the rule was written back when players played with wooden headed drivers?

 

In any event, if the COR for drivers were rolled back, manufacturers could make the driver faces stronger and they wouldn't crack.

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, gvogel said:

I wonder if the rule was written back when players played with wooden headed drivers?

 

In any event, if the COR for drivers were rolled back, manufacturers could make the driver faces stronger and they wouldn't crack.

And if they made the rule so they had to be solid rather than hollow we’d have to go back to smaller driver heads…genius!

[nsxguy]

7 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Silly rule that should be updated. Without the driver undergoing a COR/CT test they are basically admitting that performance doesn't matter, it just has to look visually bad enough to satisfy them for reasons. 

 

I respect your opinions more than 99% of other posters but how would you word such a rule so that it is more easily decided by officials on the spot whether or not a driver is fit for play.

 

I've had drivers with some ugly-looking faces and scratches. If I can't see the separation of the metal, how would I decide ?

 

I'm assuming here, equipment to measure CT/COR isn't portable enough to be on hand - or is it ?

 

Is there a test that can easily be performed on the spot to detect such a crack ? And would the crack have to be on the face ? What if a weld started to separate, so slightly as to not be visually noticeable ? 

 

Is it feasible to do some sort of water test ? Take the head off, pour water into the hosel and see if any leaks out ?

 

I'm expect the ruling bodies did plenty of "what if" thinking before making the rule the way it is - but even they make mistakes.

[sadclevelandsports]

1 hour ago, dropkicked said:

Baseball bat breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary.

Hockey stick breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary

Tennis racquet breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary

 

Golf club breaks/damaged: keep playing you wuss... 🤣

Also the sport that has the least margin for equipment error

[sui generis]

This was predictable. The "can't be bothered to acquaint myself with the Rules so therefor the Rules am stupid" crowd is out in full force. 😉

[Yacho]

16 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I respect your opinions more than 99% of other posters but how would you word such a rule so that it is more easily decided by officials on the spot whether or not a driver is fit for play.

 

I've had drivers with some ugly-looking faces and scratches. If I can't see the separation of the metal, how would I decide ?

 

I'm assuming here, equipment to measure CT/COR isn't portable enough to be on hand - or is it ?

 

Is there a test that can easily be performed on the spot to detect such a crack ? And would the crack have to be on the face ? What if a weld started to separate, so slightly as to not be visually noticeable ? 

 

Is it feasible to do some sort of water test ? Take the head off, pour water into the hosel and see if any leaks out ?

 

I'm expect the ruling bodies did plenty of "what if" thinking before making the rule the way it is - but even they make mistakes.

 

Yes, totally valid point. Which is why the easiest, most efficient way to solve this is to let the player switch out the club at will, whenever he wants to, no matter if it is damaged or not, just as professionals do in the other sports mentioned. 

 

Maybe he thinks it's broken, maybe it actually is broken, maybe he accidentally swatted a fruit fly with it on the last swing and he feels that it's now heavy by .001 grams and that's living in his head as he stands over every ball. Who cares? I'd like to see these players play the best they possibly can at all times.  Don't they already have a backup to spec at the ready that's been verified as a legal replacement? Seems easy.

[MaineMariner]

Just now, Yacho said:

 

Yes, totally valid point. Which is why the easiest, most efficient way to solve this is to let the player switch out the club at will, whenever he wants to, no matter if it is damaged or not, just as professionals do in the other sports mentioned. 

 

Maybe he thinks it's broken, maybe it actually is broken, maybe he accidentally swatted a fruit fly with it on the last swing and he feels that it's now heavy by .001 grams and that's living in his head as he stands over every ball. Who cares? I'd like to see these players play the best they possibly can at all times.  Don't they already have a backup to spec at the ready that's been verified as a legal replacement? Seems easy.

 

Yeah, that's where I'm landing. If the player feels that their club is deformed in such a way that performance is impacted, what's the harm in letting them switch it out? Just like a baseball bat or a hockey stick. So long as the replacement club conforms to the rules and is identical in specs (I suppose within reason, allowing for manufacturing tolerances), I can't see the harm.

 

Or at least the hypothetical cheating player knowingly swapping out non-broken clubs based on some performance difference variation with the new clubs is dwarfed in harm by having players stuck with broken clubs on the course.

 

tl;dr "Rules am stupid" 

[Rapidcat]

7 minutes ago, Yacho said:

 

Yes, totally valid point. Which is why the easiest, most efficient way to solve this is to let the player switch out the club at will, whenever he wants to, no matter if it is damaged or not, just as professionals do in the other sports mentioned. 

 

Maybe he thinks it's broken, maybe it actually is broken, maybe he accidentally swatted a fruit fly with it on the last swing and he feels that it's now heavy by .001 grams and that's living in his head as he stands over every ball. Who cares? I'd like to see these players play the best they possibly can at all times.  Don't they already have a backup to spec at the ready that's been verified as a legal replacement? Seems easy.

 

So could that be that a player can change any club on each hole?

 

An example might be changing a driver for a mini driver to suit his tee shot then change it back next hole?

 

Won't this just mean a defacto increase in the number of clubs you bag to 15 or more clubs?

Edited August 26, 2024 by Rapidcat

[bscinstnct]

38 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I respect your opinions more than 99% of other posters but how would you word such a rule so that it is more easily decided by officials on the spot whether or not a driver is fit for play.

 

I've had drivers with some ugly-looking faces and scratches. If I can't see the separation of the metal, how would I decide ?

 

I'm assuming here, equipment to measure CT/COR isn't portable enough to be on hand - or is it ?

 

Is there a test that can easily be performed on the spot to detect such a crack ? And would the crack have to be on the face ? What if a weld started to separate, so slightly as to not be visually noticeable ? 

 

Is it feasible to do some sort of water test ? Take the head off, pour water into the hosel and see if any leaks out ?

 

I'm expect the ruling bodies did plenty of "what if" thinking before making the rule the way it is - but even they make mistakes.

 

Why not just defer to the player? As long as it’s exactly the same set up, just let them state the driver is broken and change it. As long as there is some visible evidence of the damage and it was caused by routine play.

 

 

They let players judgment stand in other types of rules infractions. 

 

 

[Yacho]

13 minutes ago, sui generis said:

This was predictable. The "can't be bothered to acquaint myself with the Rules so therefor the Rules am stupid" crowd is out in full force. 😉

 

Have we not been acquainted with the correct rule through @grm24's post at the top of this page? Is PGA Tour Chief Referee Stephen Cox lying to our faces, and the real rules state something different that we are not aware of? Are we all drastically devoid of the global context of this rule and its intentions as written, so much so that we should all just find our seats, stay silent, and wait for the proper intellectual enlightenment to present itself? If so, please, take the stage.

 

I think most here agree that the rule was implemented properly in the case of Fitzy's driver.

 

I also think most here are searching for reasons as to why the rule exists, worded as it is, and should remain unamended in the current state of the game.

[nsxguy]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Why not just defer to the player? As long as it’s exactly the same set up, just let them state the driver is broken and change it. As long as there is some visible evidence of the damage and it was caused by routine play.

 

 

They let players judgment stand in other types of rules infractions. 

 

 

 

Well, I suppose that's a reasonable alternative. I'm pretty sure everybody has a "backup".

 

Then again, these guys are so good, I expect they could have the "exact same setup" and yet detect slight differences, maybe a slightly different flight, from their backup to their gamer.

 

And while I wouldn't expect a Tour Pro to "cheat",,,,,,,,,

[Yacho]

22 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

So could that be that a player can change any club on each hole?

 

An example might be changing a driver for a mini driver to suit his tee shot then change it back next hole?

 

Won't this just mean a defacto increase in the number of clubs you bag to 15 or more clubs?

 

No. Same specs (within tolerances) direct replacement.  

 

What's the regulations now for a replacement club due to extreme damage?  (I honestly don't know, but there's gotta be something in place already) 

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Well, I suppose that's a reasonable alternative. I'm pretty sure everybody has a "backup".

 

Then again, these guys are so good, I expect they could have the "exact same setup" and yet detect slight differences, maybe a slightly different flight, from their backup to their gamer.

 

And while I wouldn't expect a Tour Pro to "cheat",,,,,,,,,

 

🤣 ya like 

 

“Me driver is busted”

 

Official, ”Cmon that’s the 3rd time this week!”

 

”Dont make em like they used to”

 

 

[farmer]

Did they do the credit card test?  Put a credit card across the face and see if there is a gap between the face and the credit card?  Too easy?  With today's clubheads, even a minor crack is a death sentence.

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, dropkicked said:

Baseball bat breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary.

Hockey stick breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary

Tennis racquet breaks/damaged: Replace as necessary

 

Golf club breaks/damaged: keep playing you wuss... 🤣

 

27 minutes ago, Yacho said:

 

Yes, totally valid point. Which is why the easiest, most efficient way to solve this is to let the player switch out the club at will, whenever he wants to, no matter if it is damaged or not, just as professionals do in the other sports mentioned. 

 

Ouch. "Reductio ad absurdum" running rampant lately.

 

The easiest rebuttal to those "other sports" is that their equipment breaks ALL THE TIME. Without replacing them there is no sport.

 

The golfer has 14 clubs. How often do ANY of them break ? A: not very.

 

 

"Switch out at will" ? 

 

And can you imagine players swapping out wedges with different bounce angles for different shots ? Or swapping one putter for another when he starts off poorly ?

 

Would the caddy die from exhaustion carrying 28 clubs ? And if he dies, can the widow sue the Tour ? Or the player ? Or the course ?

 

Does the word "chaos" ring a bell ? 

[Nickb333]

Every one seems to be hung up on “in and of itself “ 

 

Sorry, but with modern day drivers a crack is death. Combine the demonstrable loss of performance and the player stating something is wrong is plenty of evidence beyond just a crack. A 289 yard shot at 6400’ above sea level is probably a 3 iron for most of those guys. 

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Ouch. "Reductio ad absurdum" running rampant lately.

 

The easiest rebuttal to those "other sports" is that their equipment breaks ALL THE TIME. Without replacing them there is no sport.

 

The golfer has 14 clubs. How often do ANY of them break ? A: not very.

 

 

"Switch out at will" ? 

 

And can you imagine players swapping out wedges with different bounce angles for different shots ? Or swapping one putter for another when he starts off poorly ?

 

Would the caddy die from exhaustion carrying 28 clubs ? And if he dies, can the widow sue the Tour ? Or the player ? Or the course ?

 

Does the word "chaos" ring a bell ? 

 

There would have to be visible damage.

 

So, for a player to cheat, they would need to willfully damage the club, like scratch a wedge it with a substance harder than stainless steel with enough force to cause damage. 
 

Or put a crack in a driver with like a little hammer 🔨 🤣

 

And if a player is willing to do that, cheating on this particular rule is the least worry lol