Fitzpatrick cracked driver ruling a disgrace...

[Shilgy]

7 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

Nope. The current rule is completely subjective. Period.

 

 

Did you read. LR G-9?  Appears not.  In this case cracked is not enough.

 

For the purposes of this Local Rule:
A club is “broken or significantly damaged” when:
    •    The shaft breaks into pieces, splinters or is bent (but not when the shaft is only dented)
    •    The club face impact area is visibly deformed (but not when the club face is only scratched or cracked)
    •    The clubhead is visibly and significantly deformed (but not when the clubhead is only cracked)
    •    The clubhead is detached or loose from the shaft, or
    •    The grip is loose.
Exception: A club face or clubhead is not “broken or significantly damaged” solely because it is cracked.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Did you read. LR G-9?  Appears not.  In this case cracked is not enough.

 

For the purposes of this Local Rule:
A club is “broken or significantly damaged” when:
    •    The shaft breaks into pieces, splinters or is bent (but not when the shaft is only dented)
    •    The club face impact area is visibly deformed (but not when the club face is only scratched or cracked)
    •    The clubhead is visibly and significantly deformed (but not when the clubhead is only cracked)
    •    The clubhead is detached or loose from the shaft, or
    •    The grip is loose.
Exception: A club face or clubhead is not “broken or significantly damaged” solely because it is cracked.

The wording is clear. Why was the Fitzpatrick ruling consider outrageous by so many?

 

~PS/ I'm sure the rule is there for a reason.

[st1800e]

4 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I'm sure the rule is there for a reason.

Would be good to know what the reason is.

Anyone? 

[goudok]

Some of the rules language is insane.  They want to simplify and grow the game while having a 10 page explanation what is a cracked club face.  

You want to simplify it, here I'll do it for them. 

"When a club is cracked and was not broken deliberately by a player, a club can be replaced at any time." 

Here done.

[Shilgy]

4 hours ago, goudok said:

Some of the rules language is insane.  They want to simplify and grow the game while having a 10 page explanation what is a cracked club face.  

You want to simplify it, here I'll do it for them. 

"When a club is cracked and was not broken deliberately by a player, a club can be replaced at any time." 

Here done.

And that is essentially the rule….the MLR as I posted is more stringent.

[PedronNiall]

4 hours ago, goudok said:

Some of the rules language is insane.  They want to simplify and grow the game while having a 10 page explanation what is a cracked club face.  

You want to simplify it, here I'll do it for them. 

"When a club is cracked and was not broken deliberately by a player, a club can be replaced at any time." 

Here done.

 

Unfortunately they muck the rules back up by adding to many stipulations to Local versions of rules. Sandy areas that fans are standing in all week--meaning your lie can go any which way when ending up there--become bunkers and cost championships, and cracked drivers that could be replaced without issue otherwise become subject to a litany of requirements that do not cover all reasonable circumstances for a driver to perform at a less than expected level.

 

Fitzpatrick lost observable yardage from the crack. The rule put him at a disadvantage that he should have been able to remedy. They need to drop all the gobbley gook and go to the simpler base version of the rule. 

[sui generis]

I'm only guessing, but I'd say the PGA Tour asked for this MLR, knowing the prima donnas would be wanting a new driver on every third hole. I certainly don't see the MLR used in elite men's amateur play here in the Carolinas.

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Unfortunately they muck the rules back up by adding to many stipulations to Local versions of rules. Sandy areas that fans are standing in all week--meaning your lie can go any which way when ending up there--become bunkers and cost championships, and cracked drivers that could be replaced without issue otherwise become subject to a litany of requirements that do not cover all reasonable circumstances for a driver to perform at a less than expected level.

 

Fitzpatrick lost observable yardage from the crack. The rule put him at a disadvantage that he should have been able to remedy. They need to drop all the gobbley gook and go to the simpler base version of the rule. 

DJ lost at Whistling Straights because he didn’t read the rules sheet.  Anyone else have that issue?

[sui generis]

50 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

DJ lost at Whistling Straights because he didn’t read the rules sheet.  Anyone else have that issue?

 

Our friend rogolf calls it DNR for Did Not Read. Referees see it frequently. It beats me that in TV golf not only do the players not read, but neither do their caddies, 🙄

[Rapidcat]

Perhaps we can ask Patrick Reed what he thinks?

[st1800e]

10 hours ago, sui generis said:

I'm only guessing, but I'd say the PGA Tour asked for this MLR, knowing the prima donnas would be wanting a new driver on every third hole. I certainly don't see the MLR used in elite men's amateur play here in the Carolinas.

No doubt there’s a little sarcasm in there, but we have heard that the pros find a driver they like, and sometimes find it hard to replace. Yes the quality and manufacturing tolerance are much better these days , so this isn’t as often the case.
 
However I'm just not buying this is what’s behind the MLR.  

[Mtn_Mikey]

What I find interesting is that you are permitted to replace a ball with even the most minor crack. Obviously, that damage is going to potentially impact ball flight.

 

Yet even as "PGA TOUR Chief Referee Stephen Cox said a "minor crack" was visible on the face of Fitzpatrick's driver. While a crack can impact the club's performance, it does not meet the threshold of being "significantly damaged".  

 

At a higher level than just this incident it seems there is an inconsistency in how damaged equipment is delt within the rules. Replacing a ball with a minor crack is permitted but a clubface that is cracked is required to be "significantly damaged". 

 

Maybe the Phoenix summer heat is getting to me!

 

 

[BoKampmann]

Hi there! I am very disappointed in some of the responses! If you have a beef with the rules you should not bark at the referee! Referees are enforcing the rules as they are set by R&A and USGA. It is like you blaming the cop for giving you a speeding ticket. While I agree that this Rule needs an overhaul, until then it is what it is!

 Canadian Provincial Golf Referee!

[Chunkitgood]

The local rule in question appears to be there for the PGATour, who the more I think about it the more I conclude they have it to prevent cheating, people using drivers with bellow standard CT or COR or whatever which would be more likely to fail in use.

[isaacbm]

Devils advocate a little bit here, but let’s say for some crazy reason…

The crack in the face made the head perform more efficiently than before it was cracked. Let’s say he started hitting it 500 yards and they did a core test after the round. Would he have been disqualified?

    

     

[Nickb333]

27 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Devils advocate a little bit here, but let’s say for some crazy reason…

The crack in the face made the head perform more efficiently than before it was cracked. Let’s say he started hitting it 500 yards and they did a core test after the round. Would he have been disqualified?

    

     

I’d wager, absolutely. 

[Nickb333]

4 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

The local rule in question appears to be there for the PGATour, who the more I think about it the more I conclude they have it to prevent cheating, people using drivers with bellow standard CT or COR or whatever which would be more likely to fail in use.

So in the case of Fitzpatrick, you’re suggesting his driver may have been nonconforming, yet he was forced to keep it as one of his 14 in play clubs? 
 

Not tracking. 

[Nickb333]

7 hours ago, BoKampmann said:

Hi there! I am very disappointed in some of the responses! If you have a beef with the rules you should not bark at the referee! Referees are enforcing the rules as they are set by R&A and USGA. It is like you blaming the cop for giving you a speeding ticket. While I agree that this Rule needs an overhaul, until then it is what it is!

 Canadian Provincial Golf Referee!

Hate to get into your analogy but… cops give out bogus tickets regularly. They also ignore infractions for many reasons. 

 

Regardless, you agree the rule as written needs fixing. Doesn’t make anything fair or not. That’s my point in this instance. Everyone is hung up on “a crack in an of itself”.  I read now the MLR and understand why the officials didn’t want to override the nonsense but… it’s still nonsense.
 

A cracked driver carrying 80 yards short is in fact severely damaged. Even if the crack was barely visible, that driver is severely damaged. Plenty of evidence to allow a replacement. 
 

 

Edited September 10, 2024 by Nickb333

[st1800e]

41 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Devils advocate a little bit here, but let’s say for some crazy reason…

The crack in the face made the head perform more efficiently than before it was cracked. Let’s say he started hitting it 500 yards and they did a core test after the round. Would he have been disqualified?

    

     

[Brokensticks]

On 8/30/2024 at 3:38 PM, Shilgy said:

Did you read. LR G-9?  Appears not.  In this case cracked is not enough.

 

For the purposes of this Local Rule:
A club is “broken or significantly damaged” when:
    •    The shaft breaks into pieces, splinters or is bent (but not when the shaft is only dented)
    •    The club face impact area is visibly deformed (but not when the club face is only scratched or cracked)
    •    The clubhead is visibly and significantly deformed (but not when the clubhead is only cracked)
    •    The clubhead is detached or loose from the shaft, or
    •    The grip is loose.
Exception: A club face or clubhead is not “broken or significantly damaged” solely because it is cracked.

Im sorry but this is just a stupid, old rule that somehow survived. 
 

Im willing to bet those rules are made for persimmon clubs where a small crack doesnt alter that clubs performance that much. 
 

Its not made for a driver with a thin face that relies on some flexing to trampoline the ball. 
 

And yes, to the guy way above - we def ”shoot the messenger” if it involves being stupid. A good cop looks away because its stupid, a stupid bad cop follows the law like its written. 
 

At some point you gotta ask yourself if you want to serve the law, or justice. 

Edited September 11, 2024 by Brokensticks

[LinkLow]

They need to let them replace the club at request, then take the "broken" piece to a van to have it confirmed...rather than trying to eyeball it 

[Rigby48]

On 8/30/2024 at 11:21 AM, goudok said:

Some of the rules language is insane.  They want to simplify and grow the game while having a 10 page explanation what is a cracked club face.  

You want to simplify it, here I'll do it for them. 

"When a club is cracked and was not broken deliberately by a player, a club can be replaced at any time." 

Here done.

I come down on the other side.  You start with 14 clubs you finish with those 14 no matter what happens. If you crack a club that's bad luck just like other bad luck on the course.  That's the simplest way to write a rule no interpretation necessary.  

 

Of course I always come down on the side of making the game simpler even if it makes it harder. 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Brokensticks said:

Im sorry but this is just a stupid, old rule that somehow survived. 
 

Im willing to bet those rules are made for persimmon clubs where a small crack doesnt alter that clubs performance that much. 
 

Its not made for a driver with a thin face that relies on some flexing to trampoline the ball. 
 

And yes, to the guy way above - we def ”shoot the messenger” if it involves being stupid. A good cop looks away because its stupid, a stupid bad cop follows the law like its written. 
 

At some point you gotta ask yourself if you want to serve the law, or justice. 

So now you want rules officials to have discretion over making rulings? C’mon man.  
 

I have no issue with folks that do not like the rule as written….but you cannot have officials making judgement calls that will vary from official to official and player to player.  That, for example, is why there will never be a rule granting relief from divot holes.

 

So you can complain about the rule…but not the enforcement.

[dropkicked]

Rules should be updated to protect the player and the game...

[gvogel]

Golf is supposed to be a game of integrity and honor.  Players call rules infractions on themselves all the time, even if no one else sees the infraction.

 

If the player believes that the head is cracked and is not playable, and he did not cause the issue in anger, the club should be replaceable.  No questions asked.

[Titleist99]

5 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Golf is supposed to be a game of integrity and honor.  Players call rules infractions on themselves all the time, even if no one else sees the infraction.

 

If the player believes that the head is cracked and is not playable, and he did not cause the issue in anger, the club should be replaceable.  No questions asked.

Even if the player is Patrik Reed?

[Chunkitgood]

I seem to recall that fairly recently a lot of players were found to have clubs with deficient CT times or COR’s, which seems to somehow or other to potentially produce longer drives than compliant clubs, and they out in a monitoring rule that essentially is random and has no penalty other than if the club doesn’t pass the player uses a new one.

 

A non compliant apparently can result from use or intentional alteration.  The rule at least gives some incentive for a player to make sure his equipment is compliant.  
 

The question is, how likely is a complaint driver to crack on use by a pro nowadays?  If the most advanced and supposedly longest drivers are likely to crack on normal pro use, perhaps the r local rule is a back door distance limiter.

 

But I suspect the people who makes the rules know that some players will cut it close.

[Brokensticks]

17 hours ago, Shilgy said:

So now you want rules officials to have discretion over making rulings? C’mon man.  
 

I have no issue with folks that do not like the rule as written….but you cannot have officials making judgement calls that will vary from official to official and player to player.  That, for example, is why there will never be a rule granting relief from divot holes.

 

So you can complain about the rule…but not the enforcement.

I sure can and doing it. 
 

Its a ridiculous rule that cant be applied to modern clubs. The performance of the club is significantly altered.

 

It all starts with an official throwing out the book. 

You can have your opinion. I know Im asking for justice and integrity, which is asking alot these days. 
 

Relief from a divot and broken club is both subjective ruling? Pfft. 
 

If they want to be dicks about it, measure the smashfactor and get schooled but oh no, lets LOOK and JUDGE. 

[Shilgy]

6 hours ago, Brokensticks said:

I sure can and doing it. 
 

Its a ridiculous rule that cant be applied to modern clubs. The performance of the club is significantly altered.

 

It all starts with an official throwing out the book. 

You can have your opinion. I know Im asking for justice and integrity, which is asking alot these days. 
 

Relief from a divot and broken club is both subjective ruling? Pfft. 
 

If they want to be dicks about it, measure the smashfactor and get schooled but oh no, lets LOOK and JUDGE. 

I take it you don’t think a divot relief would be subjective?  When is it no longer a divot?

 

 

The funny thing is I’m not defending the MLR as written.  I’m defending the official for making the only ruling he could.

[subrew]

Sounds like the easy solution is to have a few OEMs present some data to the ruling body showing the performance effects of a cracked face.  And lobby to have the rule changed to include a cracked face as part of the official "damaged" wording.

 

Wording changes to sporting regs get updated all the time.