Scottie Scheffler Facts

[Golfnutgalen]

37 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

My guy, it doesn't matter what your opinion is on the matter, longer players would be expected to fare better on average than shorter hitters. Bryson takes a 9 iron into a hole where a shorter guy is taking 6 or 7, and on and on. For two players with similar fairways hit the one who is longer would be expected to have more strokes gained approach and closer proximity to the hole. Let's not act like Bryson is absurdly crooked. His dispersion is in keeping with his higher than normal distance. 

 

If you want to argue it argue it with facts. Show me via data where shorter courses favor shorter hitting players. Don't give me anecdotes. Happy to concede any point based in reality. 

 

Check this Datagolf article: Distance versus accuracy

 

And probably the most relevant part:

 

• The most straightforward explanation for a negative correlation between the length a player possesses and their performance-to-baseline would be a course setup that limits a golfer's ability to hit driver — this directly reduces the number of strokes longer hitters can expect to gain off the tee (e.g. Harbour Town). On the flip side, course setups that require driver to be hit on every hole should achieve the opposite.
   
• It can be a bit more difficult to see trends in this plot. The main noticeable pattern is that most of the data points for longer courses are varying shades of green; that is, longer players outperform their baselines at (surprise!) longer courses. This is true for off-the-tee performance, and to a slightly lesser degree for approach performance, and generally holds regardless of whether the course has wide fairways or not.

As for your point about courses favoring shorter hitters again you misunderstood. It's relative performance that we are talking about. Length always helps but it's relatively more important on longer golf courses. Which also means that a long hitter's advantage is not as great on shorter golf courses. 

 

 

Which comes back to what I said.  A player like Bryson would be expected to play better than their baseline on long tough PGA Tour courses versus the shorter golf courses on the LIV tour. Shorter courses allow shorter hitters into the mix which is not surprising. By lengthening the golf courses over the past 25 years the Tour has made distance even more important which was a mistake. But that's for another thread. 

[TiScape]

He doesn’t know a whole lot about crypto.

[Dutch1008]

23 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Jokic has 1 ring and yes his style of basketball is boring.  Ant hasn't won anything.  Perhaps better examples would be Bird and Magic.  I could watch 10 Birds and 10 Magics all year long.

 

Does not compute. Jokic is boring but you enjoy Bird and Magic? 

 

Jokic shoots like Bird and passes like Magic. Rebounds like Russell and bullies people in the post like Wilt. He's not an athletic marvel like Shaq was but he may be the most skilled player in the entire league right now. I would have understood your point had you referenced Jordan or LeBron or any hyper rare athlete. But you choose two athletically limited superstars that dominated on skill and savvy, exactly what Jokic does. 

[Dutch1008]

1 hour ago, Golfnutgalen said:

Check this Datagolf article: Distance versus accuracy

 

And probably the most relevant part:

 

• The most straightforward explanation for a negative correlation between the length a player possesses and their performance-to-baseline would be a course setup that limits a golfer's ability to hit driver — this directly reduces the number of strokes longer hitters can expect to gain off the tee (e.g. Harbour Town). On the flip side, course setups that require driver to be hit on every hole should achieve the opposite.
   
• It can be a bit more difficult to see trends in this plot. The main noticeable pattern is that most of the data points for longer courses are varying shades of green; that is, longer players outperform their baselines at (surprise!) longer courses. This is true for off-the-tee performance, and to a slightly lesser degree for approach performance, and generally holds regardless of whether the course has wide fairways or not.

As for your point about courses favoring shorter hitters again you misunderstood. It's relative performance that we are talking about. Length always helps but it's relatively more important on longer golf courses. Which also means that a long hitter's advantage is not as great on shorter golf courses. 

 

 

Which comes back to what I said.  A player like Bryson would be expected to play better than their baseline on long tough PGA Tour courses versus the shorter golf courses on the LIV tour. Shorter courses allow shorter hitters into the mix which is not surprising. By lengthening the golf courses over the past 25 years the Tour has made distance even more important which was a mistake. But that's for another thread. 

 

I agree with the idea of "relative advantage" but it is an advantage all the same. 

 

Simple example, lets say there is a hole that takes driver out of the hands of Bryson but not a shorter player like Abe Ancer. So Abe hits driver roughly 285. Well that's a soft 3W for Bryson and probably even a driving iron. So Bryson loses his distance advantage but now has a pretty big dispersion advantage as I'd bet that Bryson's driving iron is more accurate than Abe's driver. Further, even if they end up in the same spot on the fairway, Bryson still probably has a two club advantage on the approach shot. 

 

The advantage may be different and less pronounced, but speed is still an advantage on any course. Even a Par 3 course. Everybody is better off w/ a shorter club in their hand.   

[Golfnutgalen]

53 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

I agree with the idea of "relative advantage" but it is an advantage all the same. 

 

Simple example, lets say there is a hole that takes driver out of the hands of Bryson but not a shorter player like Abe Ancer. So Abe hits driver roughly 285. Well that's a soft 3W for Bryson and probably even a driving iron. So Bryson loses his distance advantage but now has a pretty big dispersion advantage as I'd bet that Bryson's driving iron is more accurate than Abe's driver. Further, even if they end up in the same spot on the fairway, Bryson still probably has a two club advantage on the approach shot. 

 

The advantage may be different and less pronounced, but speed is still an advantage on any course. Even a Par 3 course. Everybody is better off w/ a shorter club in their hand.   

 

 

Yes, a longer hitter like Bryson had a better baseline average on a longer golf course. That is all I've said from the very beginning. That longer golf courses favor longer hitters, done. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that. 

 

You keep talking about longer hitters having an advantage on any golf course which is also true. But their advantage is even greater if you stretch the length of the course out. A par 3 golf course is a perfect example actually, it removes the ability for a long hitter to gain that yardage advantage off the tee. 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Golfnutgalen

[jdl]

On 12/18/2024 at 12:21 PM, Golfnutgalen said:

 

You misunderstand.

 

Bryson finished T6, 2nd, 1st, MC in the majors this year. Why? Because long courses favor his game.

 

Are ANGC, Valhalla, Pinehurst and Troon really considered "long"?

[grm24]

On 12/18/2024 at 12:21 PM, Golfnutgalen said:

Bryson finished T6, 2nd, 1st, MC in the majors this year. Why? Because long courses favor his game

Pretty much every major and most professional tour events are played on long courses and while BDC had an excellent year in the majors in 2024 he hasn't excelled/dominated on longer majors courses in the past or regular events and won't going forward. He had an excellent year in majors for 1 season. That's it. So have other players. 

[Dutch1008]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

Pretty much every major and most professional tour events are played on long courses and while BDC had an excellent year in the majors in 2024 he hasn't excelled/dominated on longer majors courses in the past or regular events and won't going forward. He had an excellent year in majors for 1 season. That's it. So have other players. 

 

Bryson's adjusted strokes gained index is 1.33 according to datagolf. That makes him the 17th best player in the world. That's behind LIV colleagues like Rahm (2.09), Hatton (1.68), and Niemann (1.38). In general, I think Bryson is drastically overrated. However, I don't think datagolf tells the whole story as I consider Bryson a high variance player. If he's driving it relatively straight that week and/or the course is bomber friendly, Bryson's a top 5 guy. Problem is, Bryson has a lot of weeks where the driver is pretty crooked or the wedge control is completely MIA, and at his speed, that's a problem. Bryson seems to have far more off weeks than other guys I'd classify as the current top 5 (Scottie, Xander, Rory, Rahm, Morikawa). 

[Golfnutgalen]

 

2 hours ago, jdl said:

 

Are ANGC, Valhalla, Pinehurst and Troon really considered "long"?

 

Yes, they are long.

 

Augusta National 7555 yards

Valhalla 7609 yards

Pinehurst 7548 yards

Troon 7385 yards

 

LIV courses are not as short as I thought but the range is very wide. Average was 7235

 

6710, 6946, 7010, 7048, 7084, 7089, 7116, 7255, 7297, 7403, 7406, 7408, 7701, 7817 according to wiki plus google.

[iBanesto]

6 hours ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

 

Yes, they are long.

 

Augusta National 7555 yards

Valhalla 7609 yards

Pinehurst 7548 yards

Troon 7385 yards

 

LIV courses are not as short as I thought but the range is very wide. Average was 7235

 

6710, 6946, 7010, 7048, 7084, 7089, 7116, 7255, 7297, 7403, 7406, 7408, 7701, 7817 according to wiki plus google.

 

So why didn't DeChambeau win any LIV event this year? He didn't even finish in the top 5 of the money list.

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by iBanesto

[jdl]

12 hours ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

 

Yes, they are long.

 

Augusta National 7555 yards

Valhalla 7609 yards

Pinehurst 7548 yards

Troon 7385 yards

 

LIV courses are not as short as I thought but the range is very wide. Average was 7235

 

6710, 6946, 7010, 7048, 7084, 7089, 7116, 7255, 7297, 7403, 7406, 7408, 7701, 7817 according to wiki plus google.

I don't think that's "long" for today's players. We all know they keep trying to lengthen ANGC but it's not working.

[Golfnutgalen]

3 hours ago, jdl said:

I don't think that's "long" for today's players. We all know they keep trying to lengthen ANGC but it's not working.

 

The point is they're longer than the average LIV courses and PGA Tour courses too.

[jdl]

21 hours ago, Golfnutgalen said:

 

The point is they're longer than the average LIV courses and PGA Tour courses too.

The point is though for him to have an advantage due to length, they'd need to be over 8000 yards. He's always going to have an advantage being longer, whether it's 6500 or 7500 yards.

[Golfnutgalen]

3 hours ago, jdl said:

The point is though for him to have an advantage due to length, they'd need to be over 8000 yards. He's always going to have an advantage being longer, whether it's 6500 or 7500 yards.

 

That would favor him even more yes. 

 

I don't know why no one is willing to agree with me here. It's not difficult to understand that longer golf courses favor longer hitters again more so than they are favored on shorter golf courses. 

--------

Anyway let's get back on topic Scottie Scheffler is amazing and the best player since Tiger Woods. Those are very strong words but the guy has earned it. People love to say he "only" won 2 majors but he also won back to back Players championships and is the first one in history to do it. Also, his commanding lead in the world rankings is something only Tiger has ever achieved.

Edited December 21, 2024 by Golfnutgalen

[Archimedes65]

On 12/19/2024 at 11:26 PM, iBanesto said:

 

So why didn't DeChambeau win any LIV event this year? He didn't even finish in the top 5 of the money list.

 

 

Because he already got paid and because his YouTube channel strokes his ego more than playing LIV events in front of 3,000 people.

[iBanesto]

6 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Because he already got paid and because his YouTube channel strokes his ego more than playing LIV events in front of 3,000 people.

 

[Shilgy]

On 12/20/2024 at 12:26 AM, iBanesto said:

 

So why didn't DeChambeau win any LIV event this year? He didn't even finish in the top 5 of the money list.

 

Clearly it’s because he faced much tougher competition in the LIV events than Scottie faced on tour.  That’s the only possible explanation right?🤣

 

That seems to be the argument here by some. Scheffler wins 7 times including a major AND the Players but because some guy that couldn’t win against a handful, at best, of top players his record is diminished somehow.

 

Amazing logic.😎

[Bad9]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:37 PM, grm24 said:

He had an excellent year in majors for 1 season. That's it. So have other players. 

 

+1. Remember Fowlers "historic" majors season.

[iBanesto]

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