2nd longest club design for draw

[Kwheat]

Hey all,

 

Trying to wrap my head around this.  

Driver = straight/fade

2nd longest club I want to be for draw/straight controlled distance. 

 

I have a stealth 5 wood that does this but is in the wrong distance bucket, is ugly as hell (upright and closed) so it drives me crazy.  I bought it on a whim off fleabay but will sell the head to go to something very straight and even higher launching (g430 Max or qi10max etc).

 

So talk to me about what brand/specs I need for the following:

1.  Neutral to slightly open.  I sole the club so any adapter is only for this purpose

2. Need spin, I have both Ventus red 7s and 7x untipped as my preferred shaft.  I'm low launch/spin naturally.  

3. Off the deck 20%, tee 80%.  Distance is not a priority, need the draw

 

I assume I don't want a low forward COG? (hoping @Valtiel will chime in on this lol, your description of qi10 design was very informative)

If it's a 3 wood which loft makes the most sense (example 13.5/15/16.5)?  

 Can a 13.5 mini driver accomplish the build or are these the wrong design?

Since it's needs to be neutral/open face, hot melt/lead tape for a draw bias might help?  Which ventus red is going to be more draw biased?

 

Thanks!

 

Edited September 12, 2024 by Kwheat

[Phabs]

Why not go to a max head in cobra with draw bias or go back a few generations in taylormade to get the weight slider that actually worked.

 

Or the default answer…. Buy the head you want and have it hotmelted 

Edited September 12, 2024 by Phabs

[phizzy30]

I would recommend either a HL head(16.5*) or 4 metal since you're a low/low guy that way you don't need to necessarily pair it with a higher launching/spinning shaft if you don't like the way it feels.  As @Phabsstated, you could also get the head you want and hotmelt having the weight more towards the bottom to raise CG.  

[Kwheat]

Gotcha, thanks.  So @Phabsthe TM models with the sliders, those aren't designed like the plus models a la the vsteel Sim design?   I can hit these a mile, had every one since Sim but they were all fade biased for me.  My understanding is that the spin was so low due to design + my desired address position.

 

Am I correct in assuming, if it's Sim generation or later I should be looking for a core/max model in 16.5 with the right face angle @phizzy30 given the extra spin needed?  Then holt melt like back heel?  I used to play a '17 m2 tour 16.5hl, it's been a while, but I remember it being similar in performance to the low spinning heads now, just higher launching.

[Sean124]

Find an M5 head and move that big slider all the way to the heel. 

[Phabs]

16 minutes ago, Kwheat said:

Gotcha, thanks.  So @Phabsthe TM models with the sliders, those aren't designed like the plus models a la the vsteel Sim design?   I can hit these a mile, had every one since Sim but they were all fade biased for me.  My understanding is that the spin was so low due to design + my desired address position.

 

Am I correct in assuming, if it's Sim generation or later I should be looking for a core/max model in 16.5 with the right face angle @phizzy30 given the extra spin needed?  Then holt melt like back heel?  I used to play a '17 m2 tour 16.5hl, it's been a while, but I remember it being similar in performance to the low spinning heads now, just higher launching.

Look for the M3 and I think the M5’s had a slider as well in Taylormade. 

Edited September 12, 2024 by Phabs

[Ben B]

12 hours ago, Kwheat said:

Hey all,

 

Trying to wrap my head around this.  

Driver = straight/fade

2nd longest club I want to be for draw/straight controlled distance. 

 

I have a stealth 5 wood that does this but is in the wrong distance bucket, is ugly as hell (upright and closed) so it drives me crazy.  I bought it on a whim off fleabay but will sell the head to go to something very straight and even higher launching (g430 Max or qi10max etc).

 

So talk to me about what brand/specs I need for the following:

1.  Neutral to slightly open.  I sole the club so any adapter is only for this purpose

2. Need spin, I have both Ventus red 7s and 7x untipped as my preferred shaft.  I'm low launch/spin naturally.  

3. Off the deck 20%, tee 80%.  Distance is not a priority, need the draw

 

I assume I don't want a low forward COG? (hoping @Valtiel will chime in on this lol, your description of qi10 design was very informative)

If it's a 3 wood which loft makes the most sense (example 13.5/15/16.5)?  

 Can a 13.5 mini driver accomplish the build or are these the wrong design?

Since it's needs to be neutral/open face, hot melt/lead tape for a draw bias might help?  Which ventus red is going to be more draw biased?

 

Thanks!

 

Mini 13.5° with the ventus red is the ticket. Play it as is or loft it up a bit and it's a natural draw bomber that's easier to hit off the deck than you might think. 

[Kwheat]

8 minutes ago, Ben B said:

Mini 13.5° with the ventus red is the ticket. Play it as is or loft it up a bit and it's a natural draw bomber that's easier to hit off the deck than you might think. 

 

What makes it a natural draw bomber?  I haven't dug into the design of these very much.  All the drivers since Sim for me have been fade biased except the sim2 max, I think that just spun enough for me to hit them consistently.

[black bnr32]

Callaway fairways have been draw biased since forever.

[Ben B]

2 hours ago, Kwheat said:

 

What makes it a natural draw bomber?  I haven't dug into the design of these very much.  All the drivers since Sim for me have been fade biased except the sim2 max, I think that just spun enough for me to hit them consistently.

I play the Original One Mini 11.5°, at nuetral setting it is very straight but easily workable both ways. As I loft it up it just wants to draw. Nothing extreme, it just wants to draw.

[Kwheat]

Anyone try a ping g430 Max or lst?  I see some on BST for reasonable price.  

[hammergolf]

On 9/12/2024 at 3:52 AM, Kwheat said:

Hey all,

 

Trying to wrap my head around this.  

Driver = straight/fade

2nd longest club I want to be for draw/straight controlled distance. 

 

I have a stealth 5 wood that does this but is in the wrong distance bucket, is ugly as hell (upright and closed) so it drives me crazy.  I bought it on a whim off fleabay but will sell the head to go to something very straight and even higher launching (g430 Max or qi10max etc).

 

So talk to me about what brand/specs I need for the following:

1.  Neutral to slightly open.  I sole the club so any adapter is only for this purpose

2. Need spin, I have both Ventus red 7s and 7x untipped as my preferred shaft.  I'm low launch/spin naturally.  

3. Off the deck 20%, tee 80%.  Distance is not a priority, need the draw

 

I assume I don't want a low forward COG? (hoping @Valtiel will chime in on this lol, your description of qi10 design was very informative)

If it's a 3 wood which loft makes the most sense (example 13.5/15/16.5)?  

 Can a 13.5 mini driver accomplish the build or are these the wrong design?

Since it's needs to be neutral/open face, hot melt/lead tape for a draw bias might help?  Which ventus red is going to be more draw biased?

 

Thanks!

 

Try a draw biased 3wd. Don’t sleep on the SFT Ping model or Max Callaway models. 

[ArcticSound]

On 9/12/2024 at 5:46 PM, black bnr32 said:

Callaway fairways have been draw biased since forever.

Yeah, the Callaway Max fairways fit the bill. I’ve got a Rogue ST Max 3W that is virtually impossible to miss right. It turns over so easily.

[Kwheat]

Went to PGA Superstore to test things out.. hit 3 woods off the deck

 

G430 max-  absurdly solid, easy to hit.  Stock fairway finder swing put 7/10 within 5 yards at 227 carry, 5 yard cut, 4kish rpm.  High draw added 10 yards, spin dropped 500, dispersion decent and about 20 yards left of center.  Very easy to turn over.

 

Qi10- very solid but just a bit more dispersion, trade off was length.  Added 5 to fairway finder, but draw swing was flying 255.

 

Really want to try a g430 LST now.  Would be interested to see if it falls in between the two.  Txg keeps saying it's a normal 3 wood, not a rocket like qi10 plus model.   Probably need to go back and test the qi10 again off a tee too.  

[Scrubby]

"2nd longest club design for draw" is exactly my strategy also.

 

917F3 13.5 set to 15 degrees ("Most Draw" SureFit setting), internal weighting towards the heal, undersized grip to help turn the ball over also.

[rsballer10]

I've never had to actively build the 2nd club to be draw biased. The nature of a shorter shaft + lower MOI head makes the club easier to curve by default. The problem with moving internal weighting is opening yourself up to nasty toe strike misses. Better to keep the club more neutral IMO and shape it through swing mechanics IMO.

[blades_are_life]

This is really 2H territory unless you find a 3W you are super comfortable with.

[uglande]

Another 13.5 Mini vote here. I just put the 13.5 TM 300 Mini back in the bag specifically because it is a draw club for me. Normally I'm straight to fade with driver, but when I want to turn one right to left, the Mini is magic. Even with the face open (I have mine cranked from 13.5 to 11.5, which is 4 degrees open) and it still naturally wants to go right to left. Perfect second tee option.

Off the deck ... meh. It works fine with a decent lie. Better than you'd expect. But still not like a FWW. That's partly why I keep 4w in the bag. 

[Kwheat]

Yeah that's the one thing about the mini driver that bugs me.  It's like a 1.25 trick pony.  I get the idea of a bigger club face off the tee forgiveness wise and maybe if it's a great lie on flat ground off the deck.  

 

@uglande How far is the mini going vs the 4 wood? 

 

I can hit a 4 wood just about the same as 3 off the tee, but I find it much better off the deck from varied lies especially if it's a deeper face variety ('17 m2 tour was my last one).  

Edited September 20, 2024 by Kwheat

[uglande]

7 minutes ago, Kwheat said:

Yeah that's the one thing about the mini driver that bugs me.  It's like a 1.25 trick pony.  I get the idea of a bigger club face off the tee forgiveness wise and maybe if it's a great lie on flat ground off the deck.  

 

@uglande How far is the mini going vs the 4 wood? 

 

I can hit a 4 wood just about the same as 3 off the tee, but I find it much better off the deck from varied lies especially if it's a deeper face variety ('17 m2 tour was my last one).  

I haven't been able to test much since I put this Driver/Mini/4w set up in play. I'm playing the 4w short (42 in.) but lowering the loft to 15.75. Off a tee, solid strike, it will probably go 240 carry. The Mini is probably 260. Driver 270-280 carry.