How deep of a mill does this look?

[mmiicc]

Hi everyone, in need of some opinions! I'm in the middle of requesting a custom build and I'd requested a medium-ish depth milling pattern kind of like the first photo, and then the second photo is the one i received of what it's looking like. It looks to me like the actual build is a bit deeper in terms of milling and i also see some milling inconsistent around the edges of the face, so my questions are:

1. do you think there would be any material difference between the two?

2. should the inconsistency of milling around the edges of the putter concern me at all?

 

I feel bad because this is already the second head he's had to mill for me (the first run was using a new machine and the milling cut much deeper than anticipated so i'd asked to index toward a much lighter mill)

 

What I requested:

 

 

The actual build:

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by mmiicc

[jholz]

Cool milling to be sure.

 

But executing it on a "used" putter face (rather than a newly produced blank) has to be difficult. 

 

Looks like dude tried to do what you asked - yet results weren't perfect. 

 

I'd suggest that it is about at good as one is going to get. 

 

If you want clean, from the factory, PLD milling...then the only option is to purchase new. 

[mmiicc]

15 minutes ago, jholz said:

Cool milling to be sure.

 

But executing it on a "used" putter face (rather than a newly produced blank) has to be difficult. 

 

Looks like dude tried to do what you asked - yet results weren't perfect. 

 

I'd suggest that it is about at good as one is going to get. 

 

If you want clean, from the factory, PLD milling...then the only option is to purchase new. 

To clarify, this is a brand new custom build! Not a re-milling on a used putter. does that happen to change your thoughts on the matter??

[jholz]

1 minute ago, mmiicc said:

To clarify, this is a brand new custom build! Not a re-milling on a used putter. does that happen to change your thoughts on the matter??

 

Yes, that would be a different situation. And all I can say is - reaching OEM quality is tough if you are not an OEM. 

 

Ping has the money and R&D to effect tighter milling tolerances - both in terms of depth and consistency of depth across the face of the putter. That's what OEMs can do. They spend a lot of time an money perfecting their milling game. That gets translated into the price.  

 

Trying to get an aftermarket miller to achieve the same result is potentially even more difficult. And hence the results on your putter. The mill is obviously less refined, for sure, and certainly doesn't exactly resemble the Ping PLD's milling. 

 

But, this might be the best they can do. Tough job. 

 

At the end of the day, the real question is: How does this newly milled putter feel? How are you rolling the ball with it. Are the putts going in?

[mmiicc]

1 minute ago, jholz said:

 

Yes, that would be a different situation. And all I can say is - reaching OEM quality is tough if you are not an OEM. 

 

Ping has the money and R&D to effect tighter milling tolerances - both in terms of depth and consistency of depth across the face of the putter. That's what OEMs can do. They spend a lot of time an money perfecting their milling game. That gets translated into the price.  

 

Trying to get an aftermarket miller to achieve the same result is potentially even more difficult. And hence the results on your putter. The mill is obviously less refined, for sure, and certainly doesn't exactly resemble the Ping PLD's milling. 

 

But, this might be the best they can do. Tough job. 

 

At the end of the day, the real question is: How does this newly milled putter feel? How are you rolling the ball with it. Are the putts going in?

Gotcha, yeah that makes complete sense! That's the tough part I guess-- there's not really any way to tell how well it'll roll and whether the imperfections will have any actual bearing on performance until I try it... tough!!! thanks for the thoughts here

[VNutz]

Definitely a deeper mill. But it all depends on who made the putter in question and if doing said milling is within their capabilities.

[MattM97]

What you posted is I believe the Shallow AMP milling which is like 0.004" in depth and you got like 0.006" to 0.008" probably on depth. Nothing too crazy on differences, the could also end up feeling the same depending on head design which is the bigger factor. 

 

That's the problem with requesting milling from another company, it can never be matched. I'm just curious on who's making that putter. 

[mmiicc]

6 minutes ago, VNutz said:

Definitely a deeper mill. But it all depends on who made the putter in question and if doing said milling is within their capabilities.

for sure! i had referenced that original photo primarily in terms of the depth of cut and not necessarily the exact pattern. it looks to me like that'll probably be more like a typical "deep" milled face, huh?

[Putter Addict]

I am confused... why did you not just get the PLD? I feel like some details are missing from this... 

[VNutz]

5 minutes ago, mmiicc said:

for sure! i had referenced that original photo primarily in terms of the depth of cut and not necessarily the exact pattern. it looks to me like that'll probably be more like a typical "deep" milled face, huh?

Definitely got the pattern right.

 

I don't know enough about the variables involved with milling. Can't tell from just pictures if yours is deeper milled or similar depth with a bit of a wider bit. That Ping milling is pretty fine and narrow.

 

If you're working with a boutique small time guy this may be about the extent of what they can offer.

Edited September 17, 2024 by VNutz

[mmiicc]

14 minutes ago, Putter Addict said:

I am confused... why did you not just get the PLD? I feel like some details are missing from this... 

Haha im just very particular about the shape of the head (for dumb, aesthetic preference purposes) and this maker just has a great shape imo

[mmiicc]

16 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

What you posted is I believe the Shallow AMP milling which is like 0.004" in depth and you got like 0.006" to 0.008" probably on depth. Nothing too crazy on differences, the could also end up feeling the same depending on head design which is the bigger factor. 

 

That's the problem with requesting milling from another company, it can never be matched. I'm just curious on who's making that putter. 

compass!

[Putter Addict]

14 minutes ago, mmiicc said:

Haha im just very particular about the shape of the head (for dumb, aesthetic preference purposes) and this maker just has a great shape imo

I can kind of understand that, but I also would not expect an exact milling match if that is the case especially since they are going based on a picture. 

[MattM97]

7 minutes ago, mmiicc said:

compass!

 

Didn't know he was still doing putter work.

 

But like I said above it's really hard for putter makers to copy others face millings no matter how close they say they can get it. 

[mmiicc]

2 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

Didn't know he was still doing putter work.

 

But like I said above it's really hard for putter makers to copy others face millings no matter how close they say they can get it. 

Yeah my request was super super simple (very minimal modifications to his stock model) which is probably why he was open to it

[Glock917]

Cant tell if it is deeper for sure but it is definitely wider. 

 

The thing is he got the hard part down in a sense which is the CAD program for his CNC mill. If that is the thinnest he can do that just means he doesn't have the right end mill to make it that thin of a profile. 

 

Basically he doesn't have the right tool to cut it that thin. Depending on the type of CNC mill he's working with it should not be that hard of a change. But he probably just wants to use the cutting tools he's got instead of trying to find a different tool and test it, verify it, etc.

 

 

Side note: OEMs do not really have much more intricate or higher tolerances in terms of mill machining. Those boutique shops have a CNC mill just as capable than the OEMs. Had a machinist work for TM and Callaway and their mills are not the best of the best. The mills I see and work with are more intricate and do higher tolerances they do. Aerospace and pressure systems ask for higher tolerances obviously. (although the ones bettinardi used i saw recently were pretty impressive) OEMs do have more resources for tooling and manpower.

At the end of day, I always look for craftmanship cause as that is the separator cause just making a metal piece to the right dimension on a CNC mill is the easy part. 

 

[mmiicc]

2 hours ago, Glock917 said:

Cant tell if it is deeper for sure but it is definitely wider. 

 

The thing is he got the hard part down in a sense which is the CAD program for his CNC mill. If that is the thinnest he can do that just means he doesn't have the right end mill to make it that thin of a profile. 

 

Basically he doesn't have the right tool to cut it that thin. Depending on the type of CNC mill he's working with it should not be that hard of a change. But he probably just wants to use the cutting tools he's got instead of trying to find a different tool and test it, verify it, etc.

 

 

Side note: OEMs do not really have much more intricate or higher tolerances in terms of mill machining. Those boutique shops have a CNC mill just as capable than the OEMs. Had a machinist work for TM and Callaway and their mills are not the best of the best. The mills I see and work with are more intricate and do higher tolerances they do. Aerospace and pressure systems ask for higher tolerances obviously. (although the ones bettinardi used i saw recently were pretty impressive) OEMs do have more resources for tooling and manpower.

At the end of day, I always look for craftmanship cause as that is the separator cause just making a metal piece to the right dimension on a CNC mill is the easy part. 

 

Good point re: width vs. depth... my guess would be that with depth being equal, increased width would have a similar effect as increased depth? (since it's reducing the surface area coming in contact with the ball)

 

And that's interesting insight re: the machines! thanks for those thoughts

[tdeutmeyer]

I like the 2nd picture face milling better by far.  I bet it will have an awesome feel.  Not too crisp and not too soft.  The 2nd picture is also 1.5-2X closer up look at the face also, so that will make a difference also when comparing the finish.

[kmay__]

Looks very similar to the milling on my Rattler, and all I'll say is it definitely does not feel soft or like a "deep milled" putter. 

[mmiicc]

4 hours ago, kmay__ said:

Looks very similar to the milling on my Rattler, and all I'll say is it definitely does not feel soft or like a "deep milled" putter. 

very helpful feedback here, thank you!

[djsalmoney]

Machinist and hobby putter maker here...

 

Face milling can be done several ways, usually either a single edge fly cutter feed across the face at a steady feed, so each individual radial line is one revolution of the cutting edge, or by using a small end mill and center cut all the 2D contours. So width and depth is totally dependent on the tooling you are using. 

 

As far as the fading of the material around the outer edge. Just looks like he got a little aggressive with a buffing wheel rounding over the edge putting that radius on the outer edge. I'm sure the radius on the PLD was CNC milled, and not finished by hand with a buffing wheel or sandpaper, which is what could give it the inconsistency. I kind of dig the fadeout, it makes it look more handmade. But each his own.

[mmiicc]

20 hours ago, djsalmoney said:

Machinist and hobby putter maker here...

 

Face milling can be done several ways, usually either a single edge fly cutter feed across the face at a steady feed, so each individual radial line is one revolution of the cutting edge, or by using a small end mill and center cut all the 2D contours. So width and depth is totally dependent on the tooling you are using. 

 

As far as the fading of the material around the outer edge. Just looks like he got a little aggressive with a buffing wheel rounding over the edge putting that radius on the outer edge. I'm sure the radius on the PLD was CNC milled, and not finished by hand with a buffing wheel or sandpaper, which is what could give it the inconsistency. I kind of dig the fadeout, it makes it look more handmade. But each his own.

helpful thoughts here, thank you!

[autronicdsm]

No pics anymore?

[mmiicc]

On 9/20/2024 at 4:36 PM, autronicdsm said:

No pics anymore?

just needed a few thoughts from folks and got what i needed so i removed them as to not make it seem like i was putting the maker on blast haha could send photos if you were interested though!