Flight your driver lower for more total distance

[playit]

Any wisdom in that subject title? I keep thinking that this is so. That the modern day way of thinking is that driver is all about carry is wrong. On courses that provide some rollout. Case in point... yesterday I played with three gents who, in my estimation do not have as much clubhead speed as I do. Not that I am long by any stretch, lol. We are all age 70. A good drive for me is 225. I've been working on the swing after a long hiatus and I've hit two that were 265 yds in a recent round and both allowed me to hit a 3wd to par 5s and I made birdie on both. Yah! (EDIT: I forgot to add that, afterwards, I surmised that there must have been some helping wind... I thought I had a crosswind.) 

 

Anyway, back to these other gents... they are in worse shape than me. Hit the ball lower. It doesn't come off the club as hot. All have a draw bias. Of late, mine is a fade bias. Anyway, I bust it and I'm thinking I really smacked that one! We get down to the balls and everybody's even. What! So, I should just hit it easy so it doesn't rise a lot, preferably a draw, and get just as much total as me trying to bust one?

 

I have also came to this question several times before, wondering about comparing my own game with different drivers, where one hits lower than the other. I guess I will go play 9 holes and really test them against one another. In the meantime, what do some of you knowledgeable golfers think? Surely this has been discussed or even studied before because it is not the first time I have noticed this back when I was much younger and played with an older golfer who didn't have much speed but yet was close to our length in those younger days. It doesn't seem to make sense thinking about it but there must be something to it. BTW, fairways are firm right now around here. I think if this were spring, I'd def be longer than them. Is that why the OEMs say it's all about carry, because they are averaging it out over an entire year?

 

Lastly, another thing I have thought about is that if your drive doesn't get as high, it doesn't have as much time to get more crooked with a shot that is bending more than planned.

 

I really need to try this 'old man swing,' hitting a low draw.

Edited October 9, 2024 by playit

[LongNwrong27]

Feel the opposite , that maximizing carry (within reason) is the better move. If the ground is firm, the ball is going to roll either way and if it’s soaking wet, a low liner is gonna minimally roll whereas a high drive will generally plug.

 

the ability to carry trees and bunkers is generally a good thing as well. 
 

those guys may keep up with you when it’s rock hard but when it is moderate to soft, probably not. 

[playit]

@doctor220, carrying bunkers isn't really an issue from what I see at my age... the far side of bunkers seem to beyond where I can carry it anymore. But I have noticed trees being in the way! High flight wins out there for sure.

 

EDIT:  Watch an LPGA event... they don't get just some roll, they get a LOT of roll. I wonder what height they hit their driver.

Edited October 9, 2024 by playit

[GoGoErky]

Carry plays everywhere. Relying on rollout is not consistent and it will vary based on course conditions, etc.

Optimize ball flight for both carry and rollout 

[LongNwrong27]

28 minutes ago, playit said:

@doctor220, carrying bunkers isn't really an issue from what I see at my age... the far side of bunkers seem to beyond where I can carry it anymore. But I have noticed trees being in the way! High flight wins out there for sure.

 

EDIT:  Watch an LPGA event... they don't get just some roll, they get a LOT of roll. I wonder what height they hit their driver.

They played extremely baked out courses for most part, as does the pga tour. Both play way way firmer courses than most ams play on, which results in more roll for all ball flights. 

[kiawah]

On firm courses yes, on any other courses probably not. Hard to get rid of carry distance and expect better driving results unless you are catching it really good all the time and not missing fairways. Short and crooked is a death sentence more often than not

[Pepperturbo]

Distance depends on the driver's loft, and where the user catches the ball on the driver's face. 

 

If I want to hit the Driver further than normal, (like in downwind conditions) I tee the ball a bit higher, and a tad more forward in my stance, changing AoA.

 

For me, teeing the ball lower, brings down trajectory and doesn't carry as far, making roll-out distance dependent on fairway conditions...not something I routinely do, except if fairways are fast.

 

On a recent golf trip, played a course where the fairways had some run.  The last hole of the trip was #18; teed the ball up, hit up the left side, carrying the ball over the crest to the landing zone and got some nice run out; hit 2 iron down the left-middle, and iron to the apron, up and down for par...that felt good. 

[MattC555]

LPGA Trackman numbers are 25-27 yards of height for all clubs.  That is with a 223 yard carry.  I imagine they are as optimized as it gets for their swing speed.  I am a higher swing speed player and prefer to keep my drivers around that 70 foot mark.  I find I hit more fairways and don't give up much distance.  On wet days I'll tee the ball a bit higher to maximize carry.  YMMV

[KMeloney]

Hitting it high because it's spinning a ton and balloons and falls out of the sky = bad.

Hitting it high without a lot of spin so that it flattens out high and seems to stay in the air forever = good.

 

A buddy at my club caddied in 4 or 5 PGA Tour events this year. He said that Bryson gets the ball [with driver] up a mile high in the air early, and then it just flies forever (which we all know). His ball flight is optimized -- and hitting it high is an integral part of his length. 

[596]

Recently was fitted for a new driver. Went from 10.5 to 9. Low spin shaft.  Spin dropped from 3200 to 2200.  Picked up 10 yards easy.  Lower launch, less spin, more roll.   I never got more then a few feet of roll with my other driver.  Btw I'm 69 years old with 87 swing speed.

[MattM97]

Carry is king with a driver, sure on a dry day on a flat or downhill hole most people might be close. But on a wet day, uphill hole, split fairway, etc the person with a bigger carry is going to have 1 to 3 clubs less into the hole. 

[playit]

27 minutes ago, 596 said:

Recently was fitted for a new driver. Went from 10.5 to 9. Low spin shaft.  Spin dropped from 3200 to 2200.  Picked up 10 yards easy.  Lower launch, less spin, more roll.   I never got more then a few feet of roll with my other driver.  Btw I'm 69 years old with 87 swing speed.

Do you know your driver carry and total distance? You are similar to me, will be 71 soon and I estimate my swing speed is somewhere between 87 and 93.

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Carry plays everywhere. Relying on rollout is not consistent and it will vary based on course conditions, etc.

Optimize ball flight for both carry and rollout 

 

This.

 

The only place I would want lower flight myself (all other things equal) is a really soft fairway that tends to put the brakes on balls that come in steep.  Which incidentally perfectly describes my course, which has pristine, but very, very soft fairways.  I routinely get zero roll on my drives, just a big ball mark in the fairway that looks like I spun a wedge into a soft green.  But the minute I go to a firm course, I get plenty of roll.

 

For me, it’s more about my OCD.  I hate low ball flights on anything but a green side chip or a stinger required to get out of trouble in the trees.

 

Edited October 9, 2024 by Archimedes65

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, playit said:

Any wisdom in that subject title? I keep thinking that this is so. That the modern day way of thinking is that driver is all about carry is wrong. On courses that provide some rollout. Case in point... yesterday I played with three gents who, in my estimation do not have as much clubhead speed as I do. Not that I am long by any stretch, lol. We are all age 70. A good drive for me is 225. I've been working on the swing after a long hiatus and I've hit two that were 265 yds in a recent round and both allowed me to hit a 3wd to par 5s and I made birdie on both. Yah! (EDIT: I forgot to add that, afterwards, I surmised that there must have been some helping wind... I thought I had a crosswind.) 

 

Anyway, back to these other gents... they are in worse shape than me. Hit the ball lower. It doesn't come off the club as hot. All have a draw bias. Of late, mine is a fade bias. Anyway, I bust it and I'm thinking I really smacked that one! We get down to the balls and everybody's even. What! So, I should just hit it easy so it doesn't rise a lot, preferably a draw, and get just as much total as me trying to bust one?

 

I have also came to this question several times before, wondering about comparing my own game with different drivers, where one hits lower than the other. I guess I will go play 9 holes and really test them against one another. In the meantime, what do some of you knowledgeable golfers think? Surely this has been discussed or even studied before because it is not the first time I have noticed this back when I was much younger and played with an older golfer who didn't have much speed but yet was close to our length in those younger days. It doesn't seem to make sense thinking about it but there must be something to it. BTW, fairways are firm right now around here. I think if this were spring, I'd def be longer than them. Is that why the OEMs say it's all about carry, because they are averaging it out over an entire year?

 

Lastly, another thing I have thought about is that if your drive doesn't get as high, it doesn't have as much time to get more crooked with a shot that is bending more than planned.

 

I really need to try this 'old man swing,' hitting a low draw.

 

Have two good fitting driver options.  One that is your standard higher carry driver....and a second that is a lower loft built for a flatter lower spin flight,for more run when the conditions allow for it

[aggiegolfer21]

Depends on firmness of the fairways and thickness of the rough.  If 60% of your drives end up in the fairway and 40% end up in thick rough, you might AVERAGE longer driving distance with a ball flight that maximizes carry distance because the ball is going to stop in the rough close to where it lands.  Also keep in mind that height is relative, when people talk about how it's better to hit the ball high, they mean that it's better to hit the ball higher than a sub-optimal height.  If high to you means 150 feet high then you probably won't do well hitting the ball what you believe to be high.  The reason most people say you should hit the ball high now is because of how low people used to hit it.  Their version of high is relative to what is considered a lower ball flight.

[596]

1 hour ago, playit said:

Do you know your driver carry and total distance? You are similar to me, will be 71 soon and I estimate my swing speed is somewhere between 87 and 93.

With this new driver it's about 210 average.  Then roll depending on how wet the course is.  I can see 10 to 20 yards of roll.  Even wet though I get much more roll then my other driver at 10.5.  It's also much less affected by wind here in Florida.  When I go to a low spin ball like the Callaway Chrome Soft X LS I get more carry and even more roll. 

 

My 10.5 with a Tensei Blue was launching too high and spinning way too much and I was lucky to get literally 2 to 3 feet of roll.

[SNIPERBBB]

Big thing is you don't want excess spin. What that amount of skin is will vary with your swing speed. You want enough spin to just get above ballistic trajectory but not enough that it balloons up. 

 

Trying to blast it improperly will lead to excess spin because most people will add lost at impact. If you throttle back a hair, things will flatten out and still give good distance 

[SEP1006]

5 hours ago, doctor220 said:

They played extremely baked out courses for most part, as does the pga tour. Both play way way firmer courses than most ams play on, which results in more roll for all ball flights. 

 

 

Also their fairways probably run at a speed faster that some courses greens.

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

22 hours ago, playit said:

Any wisdom in that subject title? I keep thinking that this is so. That the modern day way of thinking is that driver is all about carry is wrong. On courses that provide some rollout. Case in point... yesterday I played with three gents who, in my estimation do not have as much clubhead speed as I do. Not that I am long by any stretch, lol. We are all age 70. A good drive for me is 225. I've been working on the swing after a long hiatus and I've hit two that were 265 yds in a recent round and both allowed me to hit a 3wd to par 5s and I made birdie on both. Yah! (EDIT: I forgot to add that, afterwards, I surmised that there must have been some helping wind... I thought I had a crosswind.) 

 

Anyway, back to these other gents... they are in worse shape than me. Hit the ball lower. It doesn't come off the club as hot. All have a draw bias. Of late, mine is a fade bias. Anyway, I bust it and I'm thinking I really smacked that one! We get down to the balls and everybody's even. What! So, I should just hit it easy so it doesn't rise a lot, preferably a draw, and get just as much total as me trying to bust one?

 

I have also came to this question several times before, wondering about comparing my own game with different drivers, where one hits lower than the other. I guess I will go play 9 holes and really test them against one another. In the meantime, what do some of you knowledgeable golfers think? Surely this has been discussed or even studied before because it is not the first time I have noticed this back when I was much younger and played with an older golfer who didn't have much speed but yet was close to our length in those younger days. It doesn't seem to make sense thinking about it but there must be something to it. BTW, fairways are firm right now around here. I think if this were spring, I'd def be longer than them. Is that why the OEMs say it's all about carry, because they are averaging it out over an entire year?

 

Lastly, another thing I have thought about is that if your drive doesn't get as high, it doesn't have as much time to get more crooked with a shot that is bending more than planned.

 

I really need to try this 'old man swing,' hitting a low draw.

 

This might be a slightly more subtle issue than you think. A lot of longer hitters end up reaching a critical point where hitting more "up" on the ball actually leads to lower smash factors and excessive launch angle. 

 

My buddy is having an issue right now and a Trackman session clued him in as to why. His SS is somewhere in the 90's but yet he was launching the ball at 17^o. That excessive launch resulted from his Angle-of-Attack being a +5^o. That's just too much for his moderate swing speed. To "optimize" that for distance he'd have to use a 7-8^o driver which would be terribly unforgiving.  

 

You may be in a similar boat where your high flight is really just excessive launch angle. A high launch is only good if the spin is really low, but low spin misses can quickly become erratic. It's all about finding the right balance. 

 

A few swings on a launch monitor might do you good just to see what your Attack & Launch Angles actually are. Players often make a lot of incorrect assumptions about what's actually going on at impact. 

 

Also, remember that if you're driving it 225 you don't need an incredible amount of peak height either. A lot of #'s I see from the LPGA indicate they are playing drives with a peak height around 70-ft. It's easy to witness that flight in the real world and perceive it as "low" when in reality it's perfectly fine for a moderate swing speed. 

 

 

.

Edited October 10, 2024 by MelloYello

[garyt]

On 10/9/2024 at 12:43 PM, playit said:

Any wisdom in that subject title? I keep thinking that this is so. That the modern day way of thinking is that driver is all about carry is wrong. On courses that provide some rollout. Case in point... yesterday I played with three gents who, in my estimation do not have as much clubhead speed as I do. Not that I am long by any stretch, lol. We are all age 70. A good drive for me is 225. I've been working on the swing after a long hiatus and I've hit two that were 265 yds in a recent round and both allowed me to hit a 3wd to par 5s and I made birdie on both. Yah! (EDIT: I forgot to add that, afterwards, I surmised that there must have been some helping wind... I thought I had a crosswind.) 

 

Anyway, back to these other gents... they are in worse shape than me. Hit the ball lower. It doesn't come off the club as hot. All have a draw bias. Of late, mine is a fade bias. Anyway, I bust it and I'm thinking I really smacked that one! We get down to the balls and everybody's even. What! So, I should just hit it easy so it doesn't rise a lot, preferably a draw, and get just as much total as me trying to bust one?

 

I have also came to this question several times before, wondering about comparing my own game with different drivers, where one hits lower than the other. I guess I will go play 9 holes and really test them against one another. In the meantime, what do some of you knowledgeable golfers think? Surely this has been discussed or even studied before because it is not the first time I have noticed this back when I was much younger and played with an older golfer who didn't have much speed but yet was close to our length in those younger days. It doesn't seem to make sense thinking about it but there must be something to it. BTW, fairways are firm right now around here. I think if this were spring, I'd def be longer than them. Is that why the OEMs say it's all about carry, because they are averaging it out over an entire year?

 

Lastly, another thing I have thought about is that if your drive doesn't get as high, it doesn't have as much time to get more crooked with a shot that is bending more than planned.

 

I really need to try this 'old man swing,' hitting a low draw.

I think you're  on to something with older guys especially. I once read an article stating this also, that seniors can be better off ignoring the conventional wisdom of loft is your friend. The article found seniors often got more distance from going down in loft and playing for roll out.

  I find this to be true for myself at 67. I will go as low as 8* in summer if it dries out. Even under normal conditions I'm longer with a lower loft driver and roll out than going for more carry

[playit]

9 minutes ago, garyt said:

I think you're  on to something with older guys especially. I once read an article stating this also, that seniors can be better off ignoring the conventional wisdom of loft is your friend. The article found seniors often got more distance from going down in loft and playing for roll out.

  I find this to be true for myself at 67. I will go as low as 8* in summer if it dries out. Even under normal conditions I'm longer with a lower loft driver and roll out than going for more carry

 

The emboldened part above, are you talking about launch angle or loft on the driver?

 

It has happened often to where even when I was much younger, around age 50, lol, I'd be paired with an older gent who hit a low, chasing draw, and he'd be close to my drives and I'd be thinking, no way! I could carry it 240, not that that is long but it was long enough. I have always been surprised how far these guys hit it when rollout is available and when it happened just a few days ago again, I had to speak up!

Edited October 10, 2024 by playit

[garyt]

4 minutes ago, playit said:

 

The emboldened part above, are you talking about launch angle or loft on the driver?

 

It has happened to often to where even when I was much younger, I'd be paired with an older gent who hit a low, chasing draw, and he'd be close to my drives and I could carry it 240, not that that is long but it was long enough. I have always been surprised how far these guys hit it when rollout is available and when it happened just a few days ago again, I had to speak up!

Loft on the driver, not launch angle. It's worth a try going down in loft. Draw also rolls out more than a fade