AimPoint and Jim Nantz

[Duct Tape]

I take back all the negative things I’ve said about him in the past!

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfs-voice-of-reason-jim-nantz-cant-stand-new-putting-approach-aimpoint?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=golfdigest&fbclid=IwY2xjawF5ZqNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHUJTePIcgkf98VXFOegvvjxCMzGV79xKIjG6MxAW3Fo0xVg22Uwk6y97vg_aem_VrLfqB3ZOn14Pn2DUkTI2w 

[Jgolfer99]

I wholeheartedly agree for the general good of the game!  F aimpoint and F aimpoint.  In case I was not crystal clear, F aimpoint.  There that is settled and has been on my chest ever this this nonsense first started being used by knuckleheads everywhere. 

[Ferguson]

I oppose it for multiple reasons.  However, there has to someone here who supports this process.  

 

Please show yourself and tell us why it works, how you have improved and why we all should do it.

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

I don’t care either way but those who walk around the whole are doing the same thing. They are feeling the slope, reading the green, etc.

From the article. The author is right including the hot take. I don’t like Nance regardless of the sport he is doing the broadcast for and even more so when it comes to golf
 

This interpretive dance-esque look may not be the most athletic of acts, but if it works it works. We’re all trying to find small ways to better our games. Can you really blame these top-tier tour pros trying to find an edge? Well, if you’re Jim Nantz you most definitely can. Keep the hot takes coming, Jim.

[idrive]

IMO - some things just aren't good for the game, at any level.

 

Aimpoint is one of them.

[Ferguson]

It's been around how long?

 20 years. 

 

https://aimpointgolf.com/

 

 

[TonyRo]

I haven't seen a lot of people that make compelling cases AGAINST why AimPoint sucks, only slightly more verbose versions of "I don't like it, therefore, it should be illegal." If everything some portion of the golf population didn't like was banned, we'd be left with zero golf courses and only Tony Finau. 

The one that always comes up is pace of play, but AimPoint should be a relatively quick process, and for every slow AimPointer, you can find another pro that's not using it that insists on looking at putts from all 4 angles and also takes forever. I am constantly shocked when I watch old Masters tournaments how long everyone lets Tiger walk around the green and visualize putts. But I digress - as far as I'm concerned, the solution there is to just start calling pros on pace of play period, AimPoint or not. 

Pros don't care if you like it or not, they're out there to win, and if it helps their putting, they're going to do it. FWIW, I am AimPoint trained, but during casual rounds don't really care enough to use it. I prefer the TourRead method a bit more anyway.

[Duct Tape]

1 hour ago, TonyRo said:

FWIW, I am AimPoint trained, but during casual rounds don't really care enough to use it. I prefer the TourRead method a bit more anyway.

Week-long onsite class or DVD course?    🤓🏌🏼‍♀️

[TonyRo]

DVD first, then scouring the internet to learn everything I could, then a 3 hour private lesson a few months later. 

[Duct Tape]

Just now, TonyRo said:

DVD first, then scouring the internet to learn everything I could, then a 3 hour private lesson a few months later. 

Good comeback!

[Ferguson]

I am a good putter for a few reasons.  I like it and i understand how it impacts consistent scoring.  It's my favorite part of the game.  

 

For years I played with guys much longer off the tee.  I didn't care.  Sure they occasionally could get home in 2 on a 5-par, but I didn't care.   Their scores were all over the place.  They would get to the green not understand the importance of a good lag putt.  Or, having the confidence to aim at the middle of 3-par greens because they felt "that good" about the flat stick.

 

Putting is the easiest aspect of golf to practice, doesn't cost anything and with some time and hard work can save you multiple shots within a few weeks.  

 

 

[GoGoErky]

6 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

I am a good putter for a few reasons.  I like it and i understand how it impacts consistent scoring.  It's my favorite part of the game.  

 

For years I played with guys much longer off the tee.  I didn't care.  Sure they occasionally could get home in 2 on a 5-par, but I didn't care.   Their scores were all over the place.  They would get to the green not understand the importance of a good lag putt.  Or, having the confidence to aim at the middle of 3-par greens because they felt "that good" about the flat stick.

 

Putting is the easiest aspect of golf to practice, doesn't cost anything and with some time and hard work can save you multiple shots within a few weeks.  

 

 

And long, accurate drives will save you more strokes per round than putting. 
 

Strokes gained data spells that out for us as does the separation value from the book lowest score wins. 
 

 

 

 

[sergizmo]

What makes it even worse is that caddies are doing it as well. I remember seeing Max Homa, his caddie, his playing partner and his playing partner's caddie all straddling lines both forwards and backwards. And Max Homa doing partial squats. 

[MtlJeff]

The video in the link is high comedy. And golf is not above banning things or changing rules due to optics....it's kinda the whole reason they change rules nowadays.

 

Someone just needs to do a false flag operation, in order to get it banned. Like REALLY overdo it. And if they do so while winning a major, it will be banned.

 

If it were me, me and my caddie would re-enact the entire dance scene from Pulp Fiction move for move, with one of us on each side of the hole.

[MtlJeff]

31 minutes ago, sergizmo said:

What makes it even worse is that caddies are doing it as well. I remember seeing Max Homa, his caddie, his playing partner and his playing partner's caddie all straddling lines both forwards and backwards. And Max Homa doing partial squats. 

 

It's kinda like under-handed free throws in basketball. I can't think of any reason why it should be banned as it's not violating any rule. It just looks bad for the sport because it looks silly

[GoGoErky]

59 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

It's kinda like under-handed free throws in basketball. I can't think of any reason why it should be banned as it's not violating any rule. It just looks bad for the sport because it looks silly

It looks silly to those who are about optics. Doesn’t look silly to those who get that the best of the best are going to do what it takes to be the best.

 

There aren’t a lot of submarine style pitchers and it looks weird or silly to some but it’s not bad for the sport.

 

There are a lot of things like player conduct on and off the field in all sports that are bad for the sports but fans overlook them to be entertained week in and week out  

[Archimedes65]

I have no problem with any green reading technique, as long as you do it quickly.  And I don’t find that any one technique is slower than the others.  People are slow, not the technique per say.

 

I don’t use aim point, but I do use my feet to feel breaks on most greens and confirm what my eye is seeing.  Takes me way less time than guys who circle the entire green, plumb bob the line, align the ball using the line on the side, realign the ball using the line on the side, stand up and look, then realign the ball using the line on the side.  Then they miss the putt, and repeat the entire process for the two foot comebacker they left themselves with.

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Archimedes65

[m d g]

1) It looks dumb.

 

2) Players already have to walk around the hole to pick up their ball. Add to this players (and sometimes caddies) stomping around the hole trying figure out the break. The area around the cup takes a beating.

 

3) It looks dumb.

 

4) Ban long putters.

[Ferguson]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

And long, accurate drives will save you more strokes per round than putting. 
 

Strokes gained data spells that out for us as does the separation value from the book lowest 

 

Read the post.  

 

I stated putting has helped "my" game with consistency, not necessarily going any lower.  I also stated practice can save multiple strokes. 

 

Data are good for the professional player. 

 

Good putting is the great equalizer when it comes to seeking consistency. 

 

How one finishes a hole is much more important than how one starts a hole.

- E. Fritz Roberts, RIP 

 

 

 

[m d g]

6 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

How one finishes a hole is much more important than how one starts a hole.

 

 

Last week, longish par 5. Drive goes right and hits a tree maybe 150 off the tee. OK lie but tried to kill it and fade it around a tree to make up for the lost distance. 

 

Hit it WAY on the toe almost dead right into more trees. Totally blocked so I hit a very low punch shot back to the fairway. Now I'm lying 3 and am 170 out when it's usually only a PW.

 

Nail a hybrid to 10 feet and make a very tough, breaking putt for par.

 

One of the greatest things in golf is for an average player like me (8) hitting a ball into the woods or into the lake and still making par : )

[GoGoErky]

21 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

Read the post.  

 

I stated putting has helped "my" game with consistency, not necessarily going any lower.  I also stated practice can save multiple strokes. 

 

Data are good for the professional player. 

 

Good putting is the great equalizer when it comes to seeking consistency. 

 

How one finishes a hole is much more important than how one starts a hole.

- E. Fritz Roberts, RIP 

 

 

 

What does your ability to putt have to do with the topic other than to brag about your putting. Practicing the full swing

wil save more strokes a round than practicing putting will. Numbers don’t lie no matter how many times people want to claim they are for pros only. 

 

Data is good for every player regardless of pro, high handicap and everyone in between.

 

Strokes gained, decade which uses strokes gained, any other course management strategy benefits all golfers. The old school way of playing to numbers, laying up has been

shown to be faulty.

 

One is only holding their game back by not looking at the data and applying it to their game

[jimecherry]

50 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

What does your ability to putt have to do with the topic other than to brag about your putting. Practicing the full swing

wil save more strokes a round than practicing putting will. Numbers don’t lie no matter how many times people want to claim they are for pros only. 

 

Data is good for every player regardless of pro, high handicap and everyone in between.

 

Strokes gained, decade which uses strokes gained, any other course management strategy benefits all golfers. The old school way of playing to numbers, laying up has been

shown to be faulty.

 

One is only holding their game back by not looking at the data and applying it to their game

data isnt going to show you how to stop hitting the ground first ;}

[johnseg]

47 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

What does your ability to putt have to do with the topic other than to brag about your putting. Practicing the full swing

wil save more strokes a round than practicing putting will. Numbers don’t lie no matter how many times people want to claim they are for pros only. 

 

Data is good for every player regardless of pro, high handicap and everyone in between.

 

Strokes gained, decade which uses strokes gained, any other course management strategy benefits all golfers. The old school way of playing to numbers, laying up has been

shown to be faulty.

 

One is only holding their game back by not looking at the data and applying it to their game

I kind of have to disagree. I play with a guy that is a 27 from time to time. He three and four putts multiple times per round. If he could lag putt he could easily shave 10-15 strokes. does his full swing need work and consistency, absolutely. He can be on most greens in three shots so eliminating his 6's and 7's could get him to 90 fairly quickly.

[Duct Tape]

Strokes saved issue aside (start another thread please), the optics (and yes they should matter to the PGAT) are ludicrous. I challenge anyone to watch the video in the link and not think Homa reminds them of Fido, squatting a couple of times before finding the perfect spot for his business.  If I were to do that my golfing buddies would literally laugh me off the course. 
 

I have, quickly and efficiently, used my feet for 60 years of golf to help with my putting.  My dad taught it to me and it works. But it takes just a few seconds of paying attention while walking to and from a ball to either mark ball or pull pin (which I still do). No one watching would have any idea I’m not just taking a stroll. These AimPoint guys are taking much longer and, worse yet, it’s filtering down to the college and amateur level. 

[EddieWouldGo]

 

[Archimedes65]

16 minutes ago, SummerlinGlfr said:

 

 

That’s hilarious.

 

That said, that whole routine took 46 seconds.  If four guys in a foursome all used that same glacial technique, but all read their putts at the same time, they could be off the green in about 5-6 minutes.  It’s the dopes that stand around and wait to even start their read until the other guy has putted that slow things down much more than the process that any one person uses.

[Ferguson]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

What does your ability to putt have to do with the topic other than to brag about your putting. Practicing the full swing

wil save more strokes a round than practicing putting will. Numbers don’t lie no matter how many times people want to claim they are for pros only. 

 

Data is good for every player regardless of pro, high handicap and everyone in between.

 

Strokes gained, decade which uses strokes gained, any other course management strategy benefits all golfers. The old school way of playing to numbers, laying up has been

shown to be faulty.

 

One is only holding their game back by not looking at the data and applying it to their game

 

I never brag.  I suck compared to professionals. I  simply stated that putting is a good means to finding consistency.  

 

All golfers want more consistency. 

 

Re: using data 

Are you kidding?  The average golfer doesn't understand the handicap system.  

 

I would be willing to bet fewer than 4 in 100 amateur golfers use any sort of comprehensive data for game improvement.   

 

The typical golfer buys a bigger driver, drinks more beer, or cheats.

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Duct Tape said:

Strokes saved issue aside (start another thread please), the optics (and yes they should matter to the PGAT) are ludicrous. I challenge anyone to watch the video in the link and not think Homa reminds them of Fido, squatting a couple of times before finding the perfect spot for his business.  If I were to do that my golfing buddies would literally laugh me off the course. 
 

I have, quickly and efficiently, used my feet for 60 years of golf to help with my putting.  My dad taught it to me and it works. But it takes just a few seconds of paying attention while walking to and from a ball to either mark ball or pull pin (which I still do). No one watching would have any idea I’m not just taking a stroll. These AimPoint guys are taking much longer and, worse yet, it’s filtering down to the college and amateur level. 

If you don’t like it don’t watch it. To complain about what professionals do on tv to earn their paycheck is their prerogative. The video nor the actions of homa are ludicrous. Just like it’s not

ludicrous or bad for the game when a player walks 60 yards to the green to see where the pin is and judge their shot.

 

Nance is a stuffy clown and his opinion on AimPoint is. Nothing but a hot take.

 

taking advantage of anything and everything possible allowed in the rulebook is what every athlete in every sport does. They also don’t care what Joe Schmo on the internet thinks about AimPoint or anything else. They care about earning a paycheck. 20+ years of AimPoint, it isn’t going anywhere 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, jimecherry said:

data isnt going to show you how to stop hitting the ground first ;}

Irrelevant. There’s still data that can be gathered from one’s swing/game to be used regardless of skill level

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, johnseg said:

I kind of have to disagree. I play with a guy that is a 27 from time to time. He three and four putts multiple times per round. If he could lag putt he could easily shave 10-15 strokes. does his full swing need work and consistency, absolutely. He can be on most greens in three shots so eliminating his 6's and 7's could get him to 90 fairly quickly.

And if he gained distance and accuracy it could be on the green in less strokes.

 

Distance with accuracy is king.