AimPoint and Jim Nantz

[TonyRo]

5 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

So if tomorrow the MLB said teams could trip players running between bases and no longer had to be sportsmanlike in any way you'd have trouble reconciling that isn't in the spirit of the game because it's too nebulous for you to grasp?

This is a pretty ludicrous comparison, as are your other examples. I fail to see the lack of sportsmanship involved in using AimPoint period, and I certainly don't understand the link you're trying to draw between tripping people and spitting everywhere. 

 

I'm not being obtuse, I'm sorry if you feel that way. I don't even use AimPoint, as I stated before. But to me it's not at all wild or ridiculous that PROFESSIONAL golfers competing for lots of money are searching for edges wherever they can, and it's not ridiculous at all that when you're trying to gauge break to use your feet. I'm an engineer, it strikes me as very sensible to follow the recommended technique from the guy who literally wrote the simulation software that solves for putt breaks accurately, on TV, in real time. Again, your argument just boils down to, "I think it looks stupid." Is that how you make all your decisions? 

[jholz]

Aimpoint isn't the problem. Million dollar purses are. 

 

Increase the money, increase the douchbags and douchebaggery. 

 

Simple fact of life.

[Valtiel]

On 10/15/2024 at 1:21 PM, RealNickG said:

Your eyes will deceive you, but the slope reveals itself in your feet. It takes me less time to use AP than to read a putt from multiple angle and I'm making more putts which also saves time.

 

On 10/15/2024 at 2:38 PM, Archimedes65 said:

100%.  I don’t use the aim point line selection, but I use my feet and they’re way more reliable than my eyes alone. And I’m the fastest player at my club.  The process isn’t slow. 

 

On 10/16/2024 at 6:14 AM, Socrates said:

I really don't see anything different in aimpoint as far as judging the slope you feel or see (for what ever method you use).  What I do see is a more precise aiming scheme.  

Yeah Aimpoint to me feels like a natural progression of attempting to incrementally increase precision. Starting from simply looking at your line from behind that ball you have the additions of:

- Looking at it from the opposite side
- Looking at it from the sides
- Surveying the entire green on approach
- Reading the grain

It makes sense that this would evolve to include something not eye dependent, and to the two points above if it actually *removes* the need for the full 360* survey then it saves time. 

 

On 10/16/2024 at 12:42 PM, NV825 said:

There needs to be a shot clock on at least the greens at college and above tournaments. I don't care about what method they want to use, make it quick or receive a stroke penalty.

I think this is the equalizer here, because if it isn't a time issue then it's a meaningless "I think it looks silly" issue which shouldn't be taken seriously. As long as people get things done in time and don't interfere with anyone else then there shouldn't be an issue. If that included potentially limiting the number of points you could "aimpoint" then that could an acceptable compromise e.g. you can only check 2-3 points along your line. More penal for longer putts sure, but just hit it closer then. 😆

[Archimedes65]

57 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

So if tomorrow the MLB said teams could trip players running between bases and no longer had to be sportsmanlike in any way you'd have trouble reconciling that isn't in the spirit of the game because it's too nebulous for you to grasp? 

 

😂 Now I know you’re just trolling.  Worst analogy ever.

[RealNickG]

31 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

"I think it looks silly" 

 This part I get, and agree with it. But I also thought that about broomstick putters until I had a 68 year old drop 25 putts on me and kick my a** with one lol. 

[RainShadow]

2 hours ago, TonyRo said:

People making totally unverifiable claims based on their opinion is one of the worst trends of this generation. 

 Any people who don’t believe their own eyes are the actual worst….

[Archimedes65]

1 hour ago, RealNickG said:

 This part I get, and agree with it. But I also thought that about broomstick putters until I had a 68 year old drop 25 putts on me and kick my a** with one lol. 

 

So true.  I play sometimes with an ex major college golfer who’s in his late 50’s, plays to a 0-2 index and uses the big broomstick putter.  I asked him if he switched due to back problems.  He said, no, I switched because I make everything with it.  Said he could care less what he looked like waxing the guys he plays against.

 

Edited October 17, 2024 by Archimedes65

[Archimedes65]

BTW, the potty squat thing is NOT necessary in aim point.  No idea why guys like Homa do that.

[Archimedes65]

The irony is that most of the people clutching their pearls over aimpoint not being the spirit of the game of golf, probably have one of those laser range finders in their bag.  Yeah, nothing says spirit of the great game of golf than using a laser to do what golfers did with course markers and their feet for the prior 150 years.

 

And if you want to talk about stupid looking? It’s the guy who’s probably already laying five on a Par 4 shooting the flag with his range finder.  From 50 yards.

[otto6457]

[Dutch1008]

I don't use Aim Point. Mostly because I'm too lazy to spend the time learning to calibrate my feet. Also, I wouldn't attempt to defend Homa's squat move. It's silly. That said, Aim Point done correctly is pretty quick. Certainly no slower than Tiger stalking a hole from every angle or Villegas executing his Spiderman green reading technique.  

 

 

[GDB67]

If I ever see a player at one of my local courses, on a prime time Sunday, who’s gaming a Lab putter, then proceeds to do aim point with a straddle squat… I’m gonna get arrested. 
“Real Desperate Golfers of USA”

Watch new episodes every Monday at 8pm on Lifetime. 
😂🍻

Hobby, no this ain’t. 
😈

[Cliffy2020]

4 hours ago, jholz said:

Aimpoint isn't the problem. Million dollar purses are. 

 

Increase the money, increase the douchbags and douchebaggery. 

 

Simple fact of life.

I followed the high school boys state golf tournament Monday/Tuesday.  It was cold and windy (1-2 club winds).  They shot their distance, pulled a club, gave it a waggle and pulled the trigger.  They played fast but took forever on the greens.

 

I didn’t see any aimpoint.

 

The greens were rolling ~12 and balls were rolling out especially down wind.  There were so many 4,5,6 foot second putts and in general, the kids marked everything outside a foot. 
 

They didn’t do anything out of the ordinary, but they obviously didn’t just walk up and slap the comebacker either.  It just took time.  

[PedronNiall]

8 hours ago, TonyRo said:

This is a pretty ludicrous comparison, as are your other examples. I fail to see the lack of sportsmanship involved in using AimPoint period, and I certainly don't understand the link you're trying to draw between tripping people and spitting everywhere. 

 

I'm not being obtuse, I'm sorry if you feel that way. I don't even use AimPoint, as I stated before. But to me it's not at all wild or ridiculous that PROFESSIONAL golfers competing for lots of money are searching for edges wherever they can, and it's not ridiculous at all that when you're trying to gauge break to use your feet. I'm an engineer, it strikes me as very sensible to follow the recommended technique from the guy who literally wrote the simulation software that solves for putt breaks accurately, on TV, in real time. Again, your argument just boils down to, "I think it looks stupid." Is that how you make all your decisions? 

 

Simply gave outlandish examples as you were coming in on your high horse acting as though you can't comprehend people finding things not in keeping with a game as it's intended to be played or as most would find fitting as a part of the sport. If everyone starts Villegasing across the green and stroke averages drop by three per round will it make that look any less out of sorts? If people figure out that doing pirouettes before each drive increases fairways hit will they look any less ludicrous? 

 

Aimpoint will be a shenanigan however much success it might find for some who employ it. And yes, I make all decisions in my life based on how they might appear on TV or when done in front of an audience, you got me. 

[TonyRo]

7 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Simply gave outlandish examples as you were coming in on your high horse acting as though you can't comprehend people finding things not in keeping with a game as it's intended to be played or as most would find fitting as a part of the sport.

I wasn't coming in on a high horse (another example of you blowing things out of proportion to try and prove a point), apparently we just have different lines about what is fine or not fine on a golf course. You think AimPoint is like spitting all over the green and tripping other competitors, and I'm not quite there yet. 🙃

[MtlJeff]

12 hours ago, Cliffy2020 said:

I followed the high school boys state golf tournament Monday/Tuesday.  It was cold and windy (1-2 club winds).  They shot their distance, pulled a club, gave it a waggle and pulled the trigger.  They played fast but took forever on the greens.

 

I didn’t see any aimpoint.

 

The greens were rolling ~12 and balls were rolling out especially down wind.  There were so many 4,5,6 foot second putts and in general, the kids marked everything outside a foot. 
 

They didn’t do anything out of the ordinary, but they obviously didn’t just walk up and slap the comebacker either.  It just took time.  

 

It's still relatively new. I play in a number of AM events here also and i rarely see guys doing it. I am sure the number will increase over the next few years.

 

I don't have an issue with guys straddling the line . I definitely think 3-4 guys doing it at the same time while squatting up and down looks dumb on TV. They should play "Gangnam Style" over the speakers while they are doing it...but i don't really care

 

In the real world---I think pace of play will end up being a problem. A lot of am rounds in events are already 5 hours. Depending on where guys putts are, you can't all do the aimpoint tango at the same time---so if people are going to do it before each putt independantly---it will add to the round. That won't be fun.

[Socrates]

Clearly if you are using aimpoint and squating, you don't trust what the aimpoint is telling you and you are resorting to other methodologies for help.  Might as well get out Ouija board too.

[Duct Tape]

2 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

It's still relatively new. I play in a number of AM events here also and i rarely see guys doing it. I am sure the number will increase over the next few years.

 

I don't have an issue with guys straddling the line . I definitely think 3-4 guys doing it at the same time while squatting up and down looks dumb on TV. They should play "Gangnam Style" over the speakers while they are doing it...but i don't really care

 

In the real world---I think pace of play will end up being a problem. A lot of am rounds in events are already 5 hours. Depending on where guys putts are, you can't all do the aimpoint tango at the same time---so if people are going to do it before each putt independantly---it will add to the round. That won't be fun.

 

oh man, well done. Had a morning laugh which is good after early shoulder PT. Man that girl is cute but tough!  
 

Glad to see someone with a sense of humor here. I was going to rename it the No Fun thread. 

[MtlJeff]

16 minutes ago, Duct Tape said:

 

oh man, well done. Had a morning laugh which is good after early shoulder PT. Man that girl is cute but tough!  
 

Glad to see someone with a sense of humor here. I was going to rename it the No Fun thread. 

 

The "no fun" threads are all in the etiquette section haha

 

"Let me first start off by saying i hate all of you, and your opinions are as worthless to me as that of an infant. If it were up to me i'd hit all of you with a bag of oranges until you had detached retinas. Now i need your advice on something...."

 

I mean i'm paraphrasing

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2024 by MtlJeff

[Archimedes65]

2 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

In the real world---I think pace of play will end up being a problem. A lot of am rounds in events are already 5 hours. Depending on where guys putts are, you can't all do the aimpoint tango at the same time---so if people are going to do it before each putt independantly---it will add to the round. That won't be fun.

 

But the problem with pace will be in that bolded part, not the technique itself.  The problem with pace of play on the greens comes down to people standing around and not starting their routine until it’s their turn to putt.  I’ve played with multiple aim pointers in a foursome and it didn’t slow us down at all, because we are always moving on the greens.  And it is not hard to avoid stepping on someone else’s line if one is just reasonably careful.

 

BTW, I don’t think it’s going to ever be an ‘everybody’s doing aim point’ problem, as many people will never even try it, and some that do try it, like myself, will decide not to use it.

[MtlJeff]

3 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

But the problem with pace will be in that bolded part, not the technique itself.  The problem with pace of play on the greens comes down to people standing around and not starting their routine until it’s their turn to putt.  I’ve played with multiple aim pointers in a foursome and it didn’t slow us down at all, because we are always moving on the greens.  And it is not hard to avoid stepping on someone else’s line if one is just reasonably careful.

 

BTW, I don’t think it’s going to ever be an ‘everybody’s doing aim point’ problem, as many people will never even try it, and some that do try it, like myself, will decide not to use it.

 

Yes i agree with you, there are ways to do much of everything rather quickly. In tournaments i take more time on the green then in typical rounds, but i'm always looking for ways to size up my putt before it's my turn. I'll stand in places where i can read my putt while others are putting etc.

 

If you try, you can maintain pace. Many don't really try.

 

It's not aimpoint's fault--but it's just another thing

[GoGoErky]

8 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

It's still relatively new. I play in a number of AM events here also and i rarely see guys doing it. I am sure the number will increase over the next few years.

Define new. It was started in 2003 as a computer program. It turned into a green reading technique. Iirc it was around 2014 when it made its way to the pga tour and iirc Adam Scott was the first to use it.

The numbers of pros using it has been on the incline.

 

[MtlJeff]

9 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Define new. It was started in 2003 as a computer program. It turned into a green reading technique. Iirc it was around 2014 when it made its way to the pga tour and iirc Adam Scott was the first to use it.

The numbers of pros using it has been on the incline.

 

 

I'm only defining it as the people I know that are talking about it and using it. It may not be a totally accurate statement. I don't see it used a ton in the high level am game where I am but it's increasing 

[HoosierHacker89]

I'd like the inside of every cup if it meant I made 4 footers more often. It might look silly, but if it works more power to folks.

We can't even get the tour to let guys wear shorts because of optics. I can see this being banned out of shear control.  

[Archimedes65]

20 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I'm only defining it as the people I know that are talking about it and using it. It may not be a totally accurate statement. I don't see it used a ton in the high level am game where I am but it's increasing 

 

I don’t see full on aimpoint being used much at our course, but among the low index to + golfers, I see a lot of green reading with the feet.  I’d say more than half of the good golfers that I play with, use their feet to read almost every putt.  The rest do the walk around.  I honestly can’t remember the last time I saw anyone plumb bob at my course.  At least nobody under age of 65.

 

Edited October 19, 2024 by Archimedes65

[Archimedes65]

19 hours ago, HoosierHacker89 said:

I'd like the inside of every cup if it meant I made 4 footers more often. It might look silly, but if it works more power to folks.

We can't even get the tour to let guys wear shorts because of optics. I can see this being banned out of shear control.  

 

It would be impossible to write a rule to ban aimpoint.  There is no way to get specific enough where people couldn’t just work around it, and if it’s too broad, it would capture other methods.  And I’m sure the PGA Tour doesn’t care because they don’t see an issue with it.  Watch any tournament and you’ll see guys taking ages using the simply walk around technique.  Or go make a sandwich when it’s Bryson’s turn to putt; you won’t miss anything.

 

[Scottbox]

Okay, y'all are thick if you think AimPoint slows play down. I use it on the regular. I go through the routine automatically and without thought. It's no slower than walking all the way around the putt (which is certainly fine). The method is a fine way to help me feel the slope and speed. And no one notices it when I "straddle" the ball. Seriously, if you think AP is bad for the game but watching indecisive d-bag in your foursome debate with a caddy (most of whom are pretty terrible, IMO) for 10 minutes, or plumb bob (🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮), or stand over a putt forever... please feel free to wear long pants in 100 degree Florida heat. Also, Jim Nance is a leather-face dinosaur.

Edited October 20, 2024 by Scottbox

[Socrates]

Aimpoint isn't an issue.  

 

Where I do have an issue is when the person has a 18" putt (or less) after they miss the putt and then they mark it and line up the line and go thru the process again.  

[Cwing]

I’d contend that slow players are slow players. Keegan was slow before he did aimpoint. As others noted, some pros take forever circling their line trying to gauge the putt.

 

It’s the player, it’s not aimpoint, it’s not plum bobbing, it’s the individuals whom are the slow play issue.

Edited October 21, 2024 by Cwing

[TUCKITIN]

Nothing wrong with aim point. I don't get the hate. Not faster or slower than any other method. It's all individual based.