AimPoint and Jim Nantz

[Duct Tape]

On 2/10/2025 at 11:35 AM, Par4Nate said:

 

Again, you could make that argument about any type of putting style, but you’re ignoring the fact that maybe those people would be worse if they didn’t use aimpoint.  I find it funny that people think professional golfers, the very best players on the planet, don’t know what’s best for them in terms of putting.  Like these guys, who are playing for millions of dollars where every stroke counts, are too stupid to realize that they’re wasting their time with aimpoint?

The very best golfers in the world also know that some driver face impact specs, ball materials, club face grooves, and, for some, anchored long putters are better for their game too. At some point you have to draw the line. 
 

And in reference to an earlier post, yes several dozen players walking up and down the lines of future players of that hole does make an effect. And is disrespectful.
 

Your $0.02, now mine.   
 

 

Edited February 12 by Duct Tape

[Par4Nate]

I’m not an aimpointer btw.  I’ve just seen enough of it in person (and on TV) to know that it’s no different than any other green reading style.  No faster or slower and isn’t any more likely to result in stepping on anyone else’s line any more than any other method, assuming parties are respectful of other people’s lines, which they almost always are in my experience.  It’s just the new thing, one that looks goofy at times, and the luddites don’t like new things.  Nothing more than that.  And it’s only getting more popular, so it’s not going away anytime soon.

 

I also think it’s funny that some people think that only aimpointers are walking all over the green, as if everyone else just hovers in the air except when making a putting stroke…

 

Edited February 11 by Par4Nate

[Shallowface]

On 12/24/2024 at 4:26 AM, Tim Sherwood said:

I think alignment aids on balls should be banned.

Yes, absolutely!

[Shallowface]

On 12/28/2024 at 5:25 PM, Titleist99 said:

100%...agree. Some might even call it (the line) "Identifying their golf ball"

Assign a number to each player and require his sponsor to provide him with that number on his golf balls, the number being the only marking on the ball.

 

From there it's an easy next step to a "tournament ball" that everyone would be required to use.  Hopefully one that spins like a balata Titleist from 1976.   

 

 

 

  

[Mookie91]

I like Morikawa but pivoting to banning long putters was missing the point.  If he feels aimpoint helps, regardless if stats support that, fine by me.  If he thinks that stalking the line doesn’t add more turf damage than simply getting behind it and addressing it, he’s fooling himself.  Looking at the putt from both sides of the hole, Cantlay’s dance and aimpoint all add turf wear compared to the traditional look from behind, address and go.  I’m not saying that’s a reason to ban it but it’s a fact.  Whether or not it affects pace of play, again I leave that to the statisticians.  What I do know, pace of play can be an issue.  I wish, and this is a bit “jerky”, if a player in a group is particularly slow, the Tour would “out” them on live TV.

[WorkItBothWays]

So many things adopted in recent times slow up play including AimPoint but so has players crouched over their ball and lining up the line on the ball using the putter shaft as a guide while the continually re-marking the ball. I did also agree with Morikawa that players using things like AimPoint they need to be conscious of time.

 

Another thing about Glover's comments was him saying it's rude/bad etiquette is very true. It used to be the case that players would avoid standing around the hole to keep clear of potential thru lines that seems to have completely vanished with AimPoint. The stomping around that goes on near the hole now is crazy.

[soap1984]

I don't see how you ban it but it is super annoying, I agree with glover that it statistically has not helped people make putts and it does slow everything down so if they have a serious rationale for banning they should. 

[GoGoErky]

On 2/10/2025 at 7:07 PM, Duct Tape said:

The very best golfers in the world also know that some driver face impact specs, ball materials, club face grooves, and, for some, anchored long putters are better for their game too. At some point you have to draw the line. 
 

And in reference to an earlier post, yes several dozen players walking up and down the lines of future players of that hole does make an effect. And is disrespectful.
 

Your $0.02, now mine.   
 

 

So the several dozens of players walking around the entire while to read a putt aren’t walking up and down the lines of futile players?

 

 

[Par4Nate]

I was watching Golf’s Greatest Rounds yesterday about Tiger’s 2013 Players win and I couldn’t help but lol at how totally chewed up the greens were in the final round back then.  Lot’s of metal spikes and no ability to repair marks.  It was a minefield. Yet the players did just fine.

 

Today’s greens are tabletops by comparison, yet people complain now even with guys walking around in soft spikes and spikeless shoes and players fixing every tiny blemish before they putt.  People just like to complain.

 

Edited February 12 by Par4Nate

[GoGoErky]

On 2/10/2025 at 7:20 PM, Par4Nate said:

I’m not an aimpointer btw.  I’ve just seen enough of it in person (and on TV) to know that it’s no different than any other green reading style.  No faster or slower and isn’t any more likely to result in stepping on anyone else’s line any more than any other method, assuming parties are respectful of other people’s lines, which they almost always are in my experience.  It’s just the new thing, one that looks goofy at times, and the luddites don’t like new things.  Nothing more than that.  And it’s only getting more popular, so it’s not going away anytime soon.

 

I also think it’s funny that some people think that only aimpointers are walking all over the green, as if everyone else just hovers in the air except when making a putting stroke…

 

Exactly and they show far fewer people stalking the hole from every angle compared to how they show aimpoint users.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Par4Nate said:

I was watching Golf’s Greatest Rounds yesterday about Tiger’s 2013 Players win and I couldn’t help but lol at how totally chewed up the greens were in the final round back then.  Lot’s of metal spikes and no ability to repair marks.  It was a minefield. Yet the players did just fine.

 

Today’s greens are tabletops by comparison, yet people complain now even with guys walking around in soft spikes and spikeless shoes and players fixing every tiny blemish before they putt.  People just like to complain.

 

Yep and it’s a list of repeat offenders 

[hackeraz]

Could you imagine Guy Boros or Lumpy plodding around on a green using Aimpoint? There'd be a call to ban it immediately. 

[FriedEgg]

Not that the entitled Morikawa cares, but I lost all respect for him after that childish, petty comment.

[Ross_Albatross]

Biggest takeaway is we should never let Lucas Glover be in charge of a statistical hypothesis and signifiance level test.

[NittanyCPA]

2 hours ago, WorkItBothWays said:

It used to be the case that players would avoid standing around the hole to keep clear of potential thru lines that seems to have completely vanished with AimPoint. The stomping around that goes on near the hole now is crazy.

The whole "don't walk on my thru-putt" started to die off with the transition from metal spikes to softspikes. Had nothing to do with Aimpoint.

[NittanyCPA]

2 hours ago, soap1984 said:

I don't see how you ban it but it is super annoying, I agree with glover that it statistically has not helped people make putts and it does slow everything down so if they have a serious rationale for banning they should. 

Why do you agree with this? Any evidence to hold up?

[WorkItBothWays]

20 minutes ago, NittanyCPA said:

The whole "don't walk on my thru-putt" started to die off with the transition from metal spikes to softspikes. Had nothing to do with Aimpoint.

Players were still avoiding the thru line long after softspikes were the norm. Its likely less of a factor with being allowed to tap down on the putting surface but since AimPoint I see that courtesy that was still quite visible is virtually gone now.

[GoGoErky]

32 minutes ago, NittanyCPA said:

Why do you agree with this? Any evidence to hold up?

So far nobody has provided any data showing aimpoint is slower. It’s all just perceptions 

[Par4Nate]

8 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

So far nobody has provided any data showing aimpoint is slower. It’s all just perceptions 

 

Actually IIRC someone posted a video of Keegan aimpointing and taking something like 43 seconds to putt.  The joke was that 43 seconds is actually fast compared to many of the guys using other methods on Tour.  You could time Bryson with a sundial sometimes, and Scotty took forever to roll his birdie attempt on 17 last Saturday.  I even watched Freddy take almost two minutes to putt at that father/son pro am thingy a while back.  No aimpointing in sight.

 

Edited February 12 by Par4Nate

[Par4Nate]

22 minutes ago, WorkItBothWays said:

Players were still avoiding the thru line long after softspikes were the norm. Its likely less of a factor with being allowed to tap down on the putting surface but since AimPoint I see that courtesy that was still quite visible is virtually gone now.

 

But this is total nonsense.  The aimpointers aren’t stepping on anybody’s line anymore than anyone else.  It’s obvious they are being careful not to walk on other players’ lines.  If people were walking on other players’ lines, you’d be hearing about it and seeing arguments all the time.  I play with aimpointers all the time, and if they ever walked on my line they’d hear about it.  They’re careful not to do so and it never happens.  They guys that tend to walk on my lines aren’t aimpointers, they’re just dopes who aren’t paying attention.

 

It’s not hard to green read with your feet and be careful not to step on other players’ lines.

 

Edited February 12 by Par4Nate

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, FriedEgg said:

Not that the entitled Morikawa cares, but I lost all respect for him after that childish, petty comment.

LOL - he said he was tossing it out there and laughed about it. 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, DwayneGretzky said:

Biggest takeaway is we should never let Lucas Glover be in charge of a statistical hypothesis and signifiance level test.

Or let his camera get too close to his face!

[NittanyCPA]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

So far nobody has provided any data showing aimpoint is slower. It’s all just perceptions 

I agree.

 

Also, I'd really like to see the stats people are referring to that supposedly show Aimpoint hasn't improved players' putting.

[Par4Nate]

3 hours ago, DwayneGretzky said:

Biggest takeaway is we should never let Lucas Glover be in charge of a statistical hypothesis and signifiance level test.

 

I bet if you took a vote, more Tour players would choose to ban that ridiculous broomstick putter that Glover uses than AimPoint.  

[Par4Nate]

Estimates are that over half of the Tour uses AimPoint at this point.  You know, the world’s most elite golfers, who make a living playing golf and sometimes have millions of dollars riding on a single putt.  We’re to believe that all of those guys are using a method that doesn’t offer them any benefit?  As if they haven’t actually tested various methods and have some basis for choosing the one that they use?

[canonlbp430]

The guys who are slow using aimpoint are the same guys that would be slow without it. The process should take less time than normally reading the green (with the exception of an 80 foot lag putt) because you don’t need to look at it from every side. But when you have guys reading it with their feet then turning their back to the whole and reading it again with their feet then they still go and crouch down behind the ball and read it with their eyes you have completely watered down the whole process.

 

There’s also no way to ban it so it’s a moot point.

[GoGoErky]

10 hours ago, canonlbp430 said:

The guys who are slow using aimpoint are the same guys that would be slow without it. The process should take less time than normally reading the green (with the exception of an 80 foot lag putt) because you don’t need to look at it from every side. But when you have guys reading it with their feet then turning their back to the whole and reading it again with their feet then they still go and crouch down behind the ball and read it with their eyes you have completely watered down the whole process.

 

There’s also no way to ban it so it’s a moot point.

Cool now do the guys who walk around the whole and read it from multiple angles and then still crouch behind their ball to read it.

 

 

[TonyRo]

21 hours ago, soap1984 said:

I don't see how you ban it but it is super annoying, I agree with glover that it statistically has not helped people make putts and it does slow everything down so if they have a serious rationale for banning they should. 

How would Glover ever know this? Does he strike you as a guy that's taking meticulous stats of all the players with which he's paired? It took someone basically zero time at all to find video of Lucas Glover taking over 2 minutes to line up a putt.

 

I cannot stress this enough, and even though I'll say the same thing 19 ways over and over again, I know people will never listen: Aimpoint requires you to walk to around 2/3 of the length of your putt and then back to the ball. You need a few seconds to stop twice, and a few seconds to grab the actual aim point with your fingers. That's the process. Do it yourself in your living room to check. There and back is 4/3 the length of the putt TOTAL. The whole read takes less than 30 seconds for me (when I was AimPointing). If anyone is doing any differently, IT'S NOT AIMPOINT. Compare that with the guys that must stalk around from different angles, crouch over and look, walk past the hole and take a gander, pick at every displaced blade of grass and tamp down imaginary bumps in the green, etc. If you think pace of play is an issue, make the issue about pace of play.

 

Complaining about pace of play and insisting on an AimPoint ban is like complaining about people breaking the speed limit and insisting on a Corvette ban, completely missing that Corvettes are capable of keeping it under 65 and that a-holes also drive Priuses and Camrys. 

[canonlbp430]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Cool now do the guys who walk around the whole and read it from multiple angles and then still crouch behind their ball to read it.

 

 

That's what I'm saying. It's not slower because of Aimpoint. It's slower because of the guys. If they weren't using aimpoint they would still be slow. Aimpoint is built to read with your feet not read with your feet then still read it with your eyes.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

The problem isn't Aimpoint; it's slow play. All that has to happen is penalizing these guys strokes for slow play, and the problems will solve itself.

 

• Policing green reading methods is hard
• Policing alignment aids is hard
• Policing policing yardage books is hard
• Using a stopwatch is easy, measurable, and tangible... Baseball has shown the way

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, canonlbp430 said:

That's what I'm saying. It's not slower because of Aimpoint. It's slower because of the guys. If they weren't using aimpoint they would still be slow. Aimpoint is built to read with your feet not read with your feet then still read it with your eyes.

But, if they are still reading it with their eyes, that would tell me that they don't trust what they feel and are looking for more verification.  So either the best players in the world aren't good at aimpoint or there is something else.