Prime years for vintage irons?

[ezgoer]

You all think 1975-85 would be prime years for vintage irons?  Was clearly great ones all through the years.  Thinking of all the then big names in that 75-85 era had so many no brainers. Wilson, Mac, Hogan, Ram, Palmer. Ping even sneaks in towards back end. I gotta be forgetting someone. Grinds had really softened to near modern standards and aren’t we talking about the era of the TT Dynamic shaft being about the standard? We like playing all of them regardless but anything in that era in decent condition you can re grip and play. For sure 1980-90, Mizuno would sneak in but some of the greatest Wilson’s would drop out.

[Maine Golfer]

i'd say the 80s. When standard length is standard , thats a good point in time lol.  You can find kick a** full sets of blades under $100 bucks 

[NRJyzr]

I would push that out at the edges, going into the late 60s and into the early 90s.  Part of that take is due to wanting to include the TW special editions of Golden Rams, the MS11s, and the bullet backs and button backs on the early end.

 

But I have no issue with the dates you selected 😊

 

[ezgoer]

22 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

I would push that out at the edges, going into the late 60s and into the early 90s.  Part of that take is due to wanting to include the TW special editions of Golden Rams, the MS11s, and the bullet backs and button backs on the early end.

 

But I have no issue with the dates you selected 😊

 

Completely agree with all that worthiness on both ends. I kinda picked that era cuz other than Hogans the TT shaft or everyone’s version of that shaft would be in them but maybe I was overthinking. Modern shaft poisoning thoughts might be creeping in and also I’ll confess to making sure 76 & 78 Staffs get squeezed in. If I’m to keep that same thinking 80s nails it. Obviously this is all completely subjective. We will just have to keep saving and resurrecting them.

[EvanH]

2 hours ago, ezgoer said:

I gotta be forgetting someone

Dunlop (Maxfli)

Spalding.
 

 

2 hours ago, ezgoer said:

You all think 1975-85 would be prime years for vintage irons?

What makes "prime"....
Quality of the clubs?
Breadth of the offering (in terms of brands)?
The guys (and girls) playing them?
 

[bcstones]

"Vintage" IMO appllies to anything over 25 years old....don't care if you're talking about golf clubs or cast iron kitchen ware or fishing rods/reels or vehicles
So I don't really understand the OP's question

[ezgoer]

22 minutes ago, EvanH said:

Dunlop (Maxfli)

Spalding.
 

 

What makes "prime"....
Quality of the clubs?
Breadth of the offering (in terms of brands)?
The guys (and girls) playing them?
 

Oh my I can’t believe I left Spalding out! I apologize and feel really stupid. Believe me it’s not cuz I don’t like them or recognize their place way up high in golf history. Dunlop-Maxfli would be more the “ones I’m forgetting about”. Completely worth being mentioned.

Edited October 15, 2024 by ezgoer

[Gohigh]

40 minutes ago, bcstones said:

"Vintage" IMO appllies to anything over 25 years old....don't care if you're talking about golf clubs or cast iron kitchen ware or fishing rods/reels or vehicles
So I don't really understand the OP's question

Unless Im mistaken, I think hes asking opinions on which time period was the "best" for golf clubs... Which I dont really understand what would make certain periods better than the next... 

 

For some, I guess its the novelty factor of playing clubs from certain era...

 

For me, its my own nostalgia not someone else's. I play "vintage" clubs from time to time from 90s to 2000 because thats when I learned to play golf and got into golf equipment. I own Ping Eye2s and Mizuno MP14s and Ben Hogan Apex so on and so on... 

 

To say one time period was superior to others is simply wrong. 

 

 

 

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, Gohigh said:

Unless Im mistaken, I think hes asking opinions on which time period was the "best" for golf clubs... Which I dont really understand what would make certain periods better than the next... 

 

For some, I guess its the novelty factor of playing clubs from certain era...

 

For me, its my own nostalgia not someone else's. I play "vintage" clubs from time to time from 90s to 2000 because thats when I learned to play golf and got into golf equipment. I own Ping Eye2s and Mizuno MP14s and Ben Hogan Apex so on and so on... 

 

To say one time period was superior to others is simply wrong. 

 

 

 

I agree with you....no real period is better than another, depending on what is meant by "vintage"....personaly I would define "vintage" as from the pyratone/painted shaft era ('30s) till 1993.....earlier than 1930, I'd call "antique". 

btw....calling a club "vintage" or "antique" says absolutely nothing about playability (same goes for 'professional' vs 'retail'

[ezgoer]

I like bcstones definition of vintage and antique. Yeah vintage can be any period really. If you’re 30 years old TM R7s could be your vintage club. 
 

I shouldn’t confuse things with shaft talk. I get confused and hung up on that too. For instance the TT Dynamic name goes all the way back to 1942. (Just read that) Thought I’ve read the basic version of the modern Dynamic or very close to came about sometime in the 70’s.
 

I started golfing in 1985. My definition of vintage is similar to bc’s. To me there’s a difference or cutoff in sole design/grind. Kinda making another level of vintage to confuse things more. Can see it in Mac’s 67 to 68. 68 VIP looks far more modern sole wise than anything 67 and earlier. Spalding and Wilson may go back to early 60’s with a modernish looking sole grind. I do know through experience that 59-67 Mac’s don’t play as harsh as the look so not sure there’s as much to the sole grinding as I may have thought. There’s an obvious difference though. 
 
 

 

[bcstones]

@ezgoer   after listening to an episode of "Burns & Allen", I'm aware that even if something is considered "vintage" - it's never out of date

[cold_war_era_golfer]

The sweet spot for me is 1959-69 and it all comes down to the weight of the heads.  Last summer I did a lot of A/Bing 60s irons with 80s irons and not much had changed in those 20 years as far as tech goes.

 

1959-64 Wilson is a great example.  The '60-61 Dyna Powereds were essentially copied for the 1988 Fluid Feels.  But those 80s models lacked weight and I swear the chroming wasn't as solid as it was back in the 50s.  

 

Spalding I'd go back even further.   The 1953 Synchro Dyneds were copied in the 80s as the rebranded "Legacy" irons.   

 

But as my name says Cold War Era is part of the 80s and I think those are great irons as well but I think as far as peaking goes it happened in the 60s.

 

[RolandofGilead]

3 hours ago, cold_war_era_golfer said:

The '60-61 Dyna Powereds were essentially copied for the 1988 Fluid Feels.  But those 80s models lacked weight

I think shaft technology had a lot to do with any changes in head weight. The stock steel Ultra Lite shafts are lighter than the later Dynamic shafts, so head weight had to go down to keep the same swing weight.

 

I’ll speak up for the 90s here. The early 90s FG-51 Wilson Staff blades are underrated. Ram was still putting out great blades. Dunlop had many great releases: Maxfli DP-201, TM-92 Australian Blade, and Srixon Pro-100. Mizuno MP releases were consistently strong. Titleist Tour Model and Tiger’s first sets were awesome. The 1999 Ben Hogan Apex model is a classic. I think any vintage era had great blades that can still be played, but as you go forward the number of options increases.

Edited October 16, 2024 by RolandofGilead

[NRJyzr]

52 minutes ago, RolandofGilead said:

The stock steel Ultra Lite shafts are lighter than the later Dynamic shafts, so head weight had to go down to keep the same swing weight.

 

It's actually the opposite.  In order to keep swingweight the same, you have to increase head weight as shaft weight decreases.  This comes with the caveat of "all else being equal."  Which it not-infrequently isn't.  😉

 

edited to add:  For what little it's worth, my take on why head weights have decreased is that it's due to increasing club lengths.  In the 50s, we had standard 5 iron lengths as short as 37", we now have some clubs that check in at 38.25" for a 5 iron.

 

Edited October 16, 2024 by NRJyzr

[RolandofGilead]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It's actually the opposite.  In order to keep swingweight the same, you have to increase head weight as shaft weight decreases.  This comes with the caveat of "all else being equal."  Which it not-infrequently isn't.  😉

 

edited to add:  For what little it's worth, my take on why head weights have decreased is that it's due to increasing club lengths.  In the 50s, we had standard 5 iron lengths as short as 37", we now have some clubs that check in at 38.25" for a 5 iron.

 

That’s what I meant - the late 80s Fluid Feels had heavier Dynamic shafts and thus lighter heads - this is only based on a post I saw where someone took apart a ‘69 bullet back with regular flex Ultra Light shaft and it weighed about 110 grams. Of course Wilsons are difficult to disassemble or else I could measure them directly. It’s also possible that Wilson made adjustments to head weight for different shaft weights (fluid feel hosel, etc)

Edited October 16, 2024 by RolandofGilead

[Stephen8802]

I have a few sets of Hogans and Macgregors, but I mostly play Staffs for vintage and have Wilsons from the late 40's to the early 90's. I certainly enjoy them all, and enjoy the early 50s clubs much more than I thought I would, but my favorite clubs to play are the '67s through '78s. All of those Staffs are great, and I think the '67 to '70 Staffs are the best. I played my '67s 3 times and my '76s once last week and I hit them straighter than any iron I've ever hit, including my modern clubs. Just great clubs.

 

As for the weight, I think the best combination of head/shaft is a '67-'70 Staff head that came with an aluminum shaft, reshafted with a modernish S300s. That makes for a very heavy club, and it has to be counterweighted back to D3 which gives it an even heavier static weight, but those irons are smoother than anything else I've ever hit. I have one set each of the '67s and '69s done up that way and another sweet set of '67s sitting in reserve and waiting to be reshafted.

[Shallowface]

14 hours ago, RolandofGilead said:

That’s what I meant - the late 80s Fluid Feels had heavier Dynamic shafts and thus lighter heads - this is only based on a post I saw where someone took apart a ‘69 bullet back with regular flex Ultra Light shaft and it weighed about 110 grams. Of course Wilsons are difficult to disassemble or else I could measure them directly. It’s also possible that Wilson made adjustments to head weight for different shaft weights (fluid feel hosel, etc)

I've heard those rubber plugs were used for final swingweighting purposes, much as tip weights are today.

 

The only problem I have with the original 75-85 time frame was that quality could be really spotty during that time.  No different than it was with cars of that day.  Even the vaunted Hogan products weren't without issues.  The clubs from that era that survive to this day were no doubt some that happened to have been made and assembled properly.

 

Wilson, of which I am a big fan, was a prime example.  When it was owned by Pepsico, someone who worked for them told me it was operated on the same "potato chip equation" they used for Lay's.  The chrome plating was often Northwestern level quality and the ferrules didn't fit flush with the hosels, which to me indicated the hosels weren't bored properly.  When Wilson changed hands in 1986, the quality went up significantly.      

 

Considering that time frame, I never saw a poorly made product from Spalding, Ram or Powerbilt.  The Ram products in particular were consistently excellent.

[ezgoer]

21 minutes ago, Shallowface said:

I've heard those rubber plugs were used for final swingweighting purposes, much as tip weights are today.

 

The only problem I have with the original 75-85 time frame was that quality could be really spotty during that time.  No different than it was with cars of that day.  Even the vaunted Hogan products weren't without issues.  The clubs from that era that survive to this day were no doubt some that happened to have been made and assembled properly.

 

Wilson, of which I am a big fan, was a prime example.  When it was owned by Pepsico, someone who worked for them told me it was operated on the same "potato chip equation" they used for Lay's.  The chrome plating was often Northwestern level quality and the ferrules didn't fit flush with the hosels, which to me indicated the hosels weren't bored properly.  When Wilson changed hands in 1986, the quality went up significantly.      

 

Considering that time frame, I never saw a poorly made product from Spalding, Ram or Powerbilt.  The Ram products in particular were consistently excellent.

You’re sure correct on that quality issue. I came late to Wilson. Found an extremely nice 76 Mini Bullet set and it’s in my top 3 loved clubs list. I was told how lucky I was to get a set with nice chrome. I’ve since come across another 76 set and a 78 set that you can peel the loose chrome off of and roll up in your fingers almost like paper. My 83 set of Mac Colokrom’s has some toe damage on the P and that chrome is so thick there’s a chunk just hanging there but hasn’t come off yet. I’m worried I’m gonna get that chunk in my hand someday when I’m not careful. Had a set of 84 Lineover Staffs that was the same as that Colokrom with damage and a thick chunk waiting to get in your hand so Wilson seemed to have corrected bye then.

 

Think I’m gonna strip those bad chrome 76 & 78 sets raw. Keep forgetting to talk with a chrome shop. Not sure if I want to deal with the chemicals.

Edited October 17, 2024 by ezgoer

[Shallowface]

12 minutes ago, ezgoer said:

My 83 set of Mac Colokrom’s has some toe damage on the P and that chrome is so thick there’s a chunk just hanging there but hasn’t come off yet. I’m worried I’m gonna get that chunk in my hand someday when I’m not careful. 

I did have that happen when I was a kid.  Had a Northwestern Shot Saver 1 Iron where a piece of peeling chrome went right under my thumb nail.  Bled like a stuck pig. 

 

My mom thought I was gonna die!

 

 

[bcstones]

2 hours ago, ezgoer said:

 

Think I’m gonna strip those bad chrome 76 & 78 sets raw. Keep forgetting to talk with a chrome shop. Not sure if I want to deal with the chemicals.

why don't you just use a Dremel gadget to either remove or "grind" down & use wet/dry 3000grit to smooth....

[ezgoer]

I not only want the chrome stripped I want the nickel gone also taking them down to bare metal. Have seen some raw irons in pictures and the looked uniquely cool. I’ve loved raw rusty wedges forever. Not sure if a full set of irons would be as cool rusty but there’s a few simple things to treat em with to prevent rust. 
 

Think a dip in muriatic acid will remove the chrome really easy but the nickel needs to have a reverse plating process done. Would take forever sanding off nickel and you’d never get all of it. Reading up non of this sounds super difficult. Doing 2 sets a club at a time could be pretty time consuming. Then I have all the chemicals to dispose of. 
 

Chrome shop is gonna have the vats and I would think it would be nothing work for them. Hoping it won’t cost much. The chroming and finishing has gotta be all the expense right? 
 

Pretty sure I have a couple old school chrome shops in my area still. Whenever I actually talk to these people I’ll post about it. 

Edited October 17, 2024 by ezgoer

[ezgoer]

Raw set I could sand a lot of the years of use out of, sand blast faces and make pretty new looking.

[bcstones]

6 hours ago, ezgoer said:

Think a dip in muriatic acid will remove the chrome really easy but the nickel needs to have a reverse plating process done. Would take forever sanding off nickel and you’d never get all of it. Reading up non of this sounds super difficult. Doing 2 sets a club at a time could be pretty time consuming. Then I have all the chemicals to dispose of. 
 

have you watched any of Brad Meehan's YouTube videos on refurbishing & re-nickle "chroming"

[HoganApexBlades]

On 10/17/2024 at 6:18 PM, bcstones said:

have you watched any of Brad Meehan's YouTube videos on refurbishing & re-nickle "chroming"

Brad's iron work is incredible. I have a few sets of old irons that I'd love to refurbish with him.