Is your course restaurant profitable?

[unskinnybop99]

Unfortunately, our course is struggling financially. I rarely see our restaurant full/busy. A lot labour (servers, cooks, management, etc.) involve when operating a restaurant. We are semi-private and members are required to spend $400 a year on food. How are other courses doing?

Edited October 20, 2024 by unskinnybop99

[otto6457]

I feel like our course restaurant does quite well.   We don't have a required food expense with our membership.   It's managed by Troon but it's located on a college campus so we have a lot of college students and faculty that eat there regularly.  The menu isn't large but the food is good.  On the weekends a lot of players eat there and there are many tournaments that include meals where the large buffet is set up.  Obviously I don't have access to the books, but I would think our restaurant does pretty well.

 

I will say that the food was better before Troon took over and the University Hotel and Restaurant Management Dept. ran the restaurant.  The food was amazing back then.  But it's still good.

[caniac6]

Our chef left late last spring. His food was pretty basic, but it was good. The new chef came in, and totally changed the menu. His food was a lot fancier, but poor quality, and very inconsistent. We have a $300 per quarter food minimum, and most of the guys I know have pretty much given up on trying to meet it. He just changed the menu to include some old favorites, so we’ll see how it goes. The first 4 months have been a disaster, and both the GM and Membership Director have expressed their frustration to me. So, no,it currently is not profitable.

Edited October 20, 2024 by caniac6

[J_Tizzle]

The place I used to be a member at had atrocious restaurants.  They would always try to throw events with fancy menus and special drinks etc. but they lost money hand over fist.  The lounges were always packed full of people for general "grill style" food and eating after a round, but the restaurant was always wildly empty.  The only times I ever saw people in there was for like NYE and Valentines day because they had free child care.  They were absolute wastes of money. 

 

You'd do better at a country club that is less than the highest class place in the city, to just have an excellent bar/grill style of place.  I'd rather pay $15 for an awesome burger and fries, than $45 for a crappy steak and overcooked veggies etc because they have some fancy demi glaze on it.

 

Before I dropped my membership and my $7k initiation fee, I had heard rumors that the restaurant side of the club was losing money while the course was essentially supporting that side of things, then the course lost all the greens due to stupidity and they lost like 30% of the membership...

Edited October 20, 2024 by J_Tizzle

[StudentGolfer4]

My first thought, I’m guessing most don’t know  if the restaurant is profitable or not. 
 

Some private clubs may show their operating expenses broken down at the end of the year but that’s pretty uncommon among places around me. 
 

Saying something like “the restaurant is usually not that busy” or “most of the members complain about the food” doesn’t tell you if it’s profitable or not. 
 

If any of you guys have real numbers I would love to hear them. What percent is the restaurant losing or gaining?

[caniac6]

I am guessing that our restaurant isn’t making money based on all the empty tables I see, and comments by the GM expressing his frustration with the new chef. I don’t have numbers, but the GM volunteered the information, I didn’t ask, or make any comments to him.

[Seamus_MacDuff]

I have no idea how public or semi-private clubs’ food and beverage operations fare, but according to Club Benchmarking the median large private club loses 11% on food and beverage operations.
 

If you think about a club of 400 - 500 members as a community, it’s pretty damn tough to run a decent profitable restaurant in a town of the same size. 

[DArnie]

My experience is having been a GM at a private course. I've seen the books going back more than 10 years and have seen losses from $120,000 to recent profits of $40,000. This involved several changes of Restaurant managers, chefs, bartenders etc. And changes by Board and members perceptions.

Losses occurred mostly from: 

a). Club allowing outside tournaments/events to bring their own "donated" food or drinks. 

b). Pricing. Members could eat at the club for cheaper than say Applebee's or other sit-down family type restaurants. Member mindset was we pay our dues and minimum, so food should be cheaper than eating out. Board had to move on this thought process.

c). Theft. Items leaving the restaurant and overcooking for Buffets so could take home to the employee's families etc. 

d). The Club doesn't have any type of health insurance and so a benefit given to the employees for hiring and retention purposes was a free lunch everyday while working and the Sunday buffet if working then. 20+lunches a day adds up quickly.

e). Not going after private parties, wedding dinners, school reunions etc.

f). Poor employee management of staff. i.e. huge overtime numbers, not enough employees/too many. Staff turnover is a big problem along with unreliable employees in the restaurant business even at clubs.

Remedies:

a). If outside tournaments/fundraisers had their food "donated", then we would add $8 to each participant's fee or they would have to buy from the club. Eventually all food and drinks had to come from the club. 

b). Raised food minimums to $75/month from $50, and also new menu with more in line pricing. Food and service has always been consistently good at the club. Strangely no real member complaints.

c). Better inventory checks and clear employee guidelines helped tremendously.

d). Actively pursuing events for the restaurant and facilities, increasing activities. 

Raised rates for events also. Almost too busy now.

e). Clearer policies for employees and hours worked. Still the restaurant business though!

 

Restaurants at clubs usually do not make money and it is considered well done if they can break even and cover costs. It's basically a member benefit of a club. It's a tough part of any club but should be a nice place to eat and have family dinners etc. It can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

[Archimedes65]

Our restaurant is fantastic and gets a lot of use.  But it’s not managed to be profitable.  It’s managed to be break even for the members, which is my understanding what most clubs do with their food and beverage.  We don’t have any food and beverage minimums for our full members, but I’d bet the active member averages one to two hundred a month on food and beverage.

[ChipNRun]

In our area of Illinois near St. Louis, we have more semi-privates than true private clubs.

 

Note that these venues call themselves golf clubs, not country clubs (most have no swimming pool, tennis courts, or polo field).

 

In the early 2000s, the semi-privates had full-scope restaurants, including a lavish Sunday buffet. But, the 2008 financial crisis put a stop to all this.

 

The semi-privates, many run by the same golf management company, went from full dining restaurant to snack bar. Standard fare is brats and burgers, along with pre-wrapped ham-and-cheese or turkey sandwiches. Might have a pot of chili on some days.

 

At my club, they rearranged the floor plan in the pro shop so the brat-and-burger bar is across the room from the golfer check-in desk. As per old floor plan, you had to walk through lobby and into bar area to get food; this created a bottleneck and wasted footsteps during week when staffing was lighter.

 

The new layout keeps things simple during the week, and you get big economie$ of $cale with just a few entree items.

 

This way, the staff and the golfers both have common expectations of food service. Lunch costs more than a grab-and-go at local 7-Eleven, but less than at a sports bar.

 

If you have a major event at the club - benefit golf tournament, wedding reception, anniversary dinner - you have other options. You can arrange upscale menu with food-and-beverage manager, or arrange to have outside catering provide the eats.

Edited October 21, 2024 by ChipNRun
Add "expectations" para.

[ChipNRun]

In our area of Illinois near St. Louis, we have more semi-privates than true private clubs.

 

Moderator please remove. I accidentally double-posted.

Edited October 21, 2024 by ChipNRun
Remove double post.

[caniac6]

3 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

In our area of Illinois near St. Louis, we have more semi-privates than true private clubs.

 

Note that these venues call themselves golf clubs, not country clubs (most have no swimming pool, tennis courts, or polo field).

 

In the early 2000s, the semi-privates had full-scope restaurants, including a lavish Sunday buffet. But, the 2008 financial crisis put a stop to all this.

 

The semi-privates, many run by the same golf management company, went from full dining restaurant to snack bar. Standard fare is brats and burgers, along with pre-wrapped ham-and-cheese or turkey sandwiches. Might have a pot of chili on some days.

 

At my club, they rearranged the floor plan in the pro shop so the brat-and-burger bar is across the room from the golfer check-in desk. As per old floor plan, you had to walk through lobby and into bar area to get food; this created a bottleneck and wasted footsteps during week when staffing was lighter.

 

The new layout keeps things simple during the week, and you get big economie$ of $cale with just a few entree items.

 

This way, the staff and the golfers both have common expectations of food service.

 

If you have a major event at the club - benefit golf tournament, wedding reception, anniversary dinner - you have other options. You can arrange upscale menu with food-and-beverage manager, or arrange to have outside catering provide the eats.

I liked the previous post better.

[Pepperturbo]

I held two different pvt club memberships over a lengthy period.  I was on the BOD of an equity club, and the leadership committee of the benevolent dictator owned club.  Revenue from each restaurant varied depending on member usage, but each had a highly used grill room and bar, both were very profitable, so revenue was used to cover loses in the restaurants and elsewhere. 

 

What helped was having P&L oriented dept managers and club leadership.  What we didn't do was put NONE experienced people in charge of departs where profit was needed; dept managers had to work hand-in-hand.

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Pepperturbo

[Guest]

Food and beverage is a loss at the majority of clubs.  Maybe 10% of clubs break even or make a small profit on it.  Post-COVID helped many clubs, but it's still primarily a service as opposed to a profit center.   our club has a ton of members, so we turn a small profit.  But that is very recent as we've tried to get rid of the upscale dining and focus on the bar area, quick bites for during/post the round or tennis match, and casual American dining.  The upscale dining is a huge money loser and quite frankly you can get a better upscale meal at 50 restaurants within 5 miles.  I would think for smaller clubs it's nearly impossible to make money on F&B.  If your club has a food minimum, it's a clear indication they lose money on it.  It's meant to ensure the F&B is subsidized.  We don't have one but I'd be fine if we did to force the cheapos to actually spend a few bucks at the club

 

 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Oliver Klozoff

[ChipNRun]

Old Hickory GC is a private club in St. Charles, MO.

 

It has "split the difference" on its club's full-service restaurant. Members get priority for seating and reservations, but the public is welcome on a space-available basis.

 

I've played in a couple of charity events there, and the restaurant appears to always be busy.

 

 

[mshills]

I am confident it’s a loser at most clubs…..which begs the question, why have it at all?

 

I wish our place would dramatically scale back food operations.  It can be a challenge to offer a quality or interesting menu to a captive audience where a lot of the members tend to be inflexible and have their preferences.  Inventory management is not easy because you have so much less volume than a public restaurant.  I just don’t see the attraction of having the full dining experience.  Just give me a great bar that offers a few good apps and a few good sandwiches.  That is more than sufficient.  You don’t need 35 choices.

 

This approach does risk alienating the 50 year member codgers who expect to have their prime rib on Friday night and the surf & turf weekend special on Saturday night, but the club should be asking “to what end?”

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

It can be a challenge to offer a quality or interesting menu to a captive audience where a lot of the members tend to be inflexible and have their preferences. 

 

This is our club for the most part.

 

So many people b**** about the food, but order the same damn thing all the time. On men's night they usually have three specials that are almost always pretty good and change from the normal menu. Do the people who complain about lack of selection order them? No. 

[mshills]

5 minutes ago, jvincent said:

 

This is our club for the most part.

 

So many people b**** about the food, but order the same damn thing all the time. On men's night they usually have three specials that are almost always pretty good and change from the normal menu. Do the people who complain about lack of selection order them? No. 

 

Amen to this.  “I been comin’ here 40 yrs, don’t gimme none of that weird food!”  🙄

 

I’d love a more innovative / interesting menu but that is not realistic at all with a captive audience.  I’d definitely be in favor of a dramatically scaled-back menu, like 3-5 appetizers, a handful of sandwich options, and a couple salads.  Put that with a great bar, let the chef be a little creative with rotating the apps and sandwiches, and you’re in good shape.

 

The problem is the five guys who will miss the overcooked pasta, the shrimp cocktail, and other tired stuff like that will be way more vocal than the ones who appreciate the change, so nothing will change.

[me05501]

The restaurant world has changed dramatically over the last several decades and very few clubs have made the changes necessary to keep up. 

 

Since I graduated college in 1990 I've witnessed all of these developments:  

• The coffee shop phenomenon
• A huge increase in taste for various ethnic cuisines
• Many more locally-owned, locally-sourced eateries with high price points but casual vibes
• Acceptance of freshly made grab-and-go or reheat-at-home foods
• Far less interest in getting dressed up for a night out
• A rustic aesthetic for the majority of new restaurants

I have yet to visit a club that has embraced these modern dining trends. They're still offering the traditional experience which only appeals to fossils. 

[mshills]

22 hours ago, Oliver Klozoff said:

…upscale dining is a huge money loser and quite frankly you can get a better upscale meal at 50 restaurants within 5 miles.  I would think for smaller clubs it's nearly impossible to make money on F&B.  If your club has a food minimum, it's a clear indication they lose money on it.

 

Totally agree.  If I want to take the missus out to dinner, we aren’t going to the club.  It’s not even a consideration, never even think about doing that.

 

Our club is not large, and not particularly high-end.  F&B min is $125 / mo.  Alcohol does not count.  So, the F&B is on the higher side, and as you said, there is no doubt that P&L is under water — if we have segmented financials, which I’m not sure of, as I’ve not asked.

 

I don’t want to sound like I am complaining.  My club  🌰 🥜  is my favorite check to write every month.  I love the place, but that does not mean it is perfect, and some dramatic scaling back and modernization of all things involving food and drink would, from my perspective, greatly enhance the experience and likely make us better off financially.

 

@me05501 is 100% correct.  The traditional experience is difficult to deliver, is costly, and more times than not, ends up being a tired, crappy experience that attracts only a tiny sliver of the membership.  So, why not think and operate differently?

 

Great bar is not hard.  Do that.  Then, pull WAY back on the menu and let the chef experiment some with a small number of apps and sandwiches.  It better be more than pub grub wings and burgers and nachos.  For God’s sake please not another sports bar concept!  🤮  Bring the rest of the experience into the 21st century — you can leave the Mothers Day buffet, and prime rib night, and things like that, which no one really likes, in the past.

[david.c.w]

On 10/20/2024 at 7:49 PM, Archimedes65 said:

Our restaurant is fantastic and gets a lot of use.  But it’s not managed to be profitable.  It’s managed to be break even for the members, which is my understanding what most clubs do with their food and beverage.  We don’t have any food and beverage minimums for our full members, but I’d bet the active member averages one to two hundred a month on food and beverage.

 

I believe at many country clubs the F&B should target to break even or actually lose money for it to be successful.   Service and food needs to be on par with a normal restaurant, but it has a very limited pool of customers compared to a normal restaurant.   No way to make that add up.  To be financially in the black the food or staff expense needs to be way down, or the price needs to be to be too high.  Members will then complain about bad service and a $25 bad burger and will eat elsewhere.

 

Run in the red and subsidize from dues.

 

[caniac6]

Just got rid of our new chef, and returned to a better menu. Our membership director said she was looking forward to members chewing their food minimum rather than drinking it. The chef lasted four months.

[graveydellic]

F&B at our club lost a million dollars in the last year.  However, it's less the food and more a new GM that is puts on a lot of events that lose money and the president of the club does nothing to keep him in check.  Eventually something will give and he will either be ousted or reigned in.  All the younger members like all the new fun events while the old folks whine, but most don't know how much of a money loser they have been.  

[postfold]

On 10/22/2024 at 2:26 PM, mshills said:

 

Bring the rest of the experience into the 21st century — you can leave the Mothers Day buffet, and prime rib night, and things like that, which no one really likes, in the past.

When I belonged to a semi-private, the Mother's Day buffet and Friday night fish fries were huge draws.  

[bcjim]

9 hours ago, graveydellic said:

F&B at our club lost a million dollars in the last year.  However, it's less the food and more a new GM that is puts on a lot of events that lose money and the president of the club does nothing to keep him in check.  Eventually something will give and he will either be ousted or reigned in.  All the younger members like all the new fun events while the old folks whine, but most don't know how much of a money loser they have been.  

That's quite a *loss*.  Must be a decent sized club generating a lot of f/b revenue to lose that much. 

[ND2005]

20 hours ago, caniac6 said:

Just got rid of our new chef, and returned to a better menu. Our membership director said she was looking forward to members chewing their food minimum rather than drinking it. The chef lasted four months.

 

Your long torment is over 😂

[klebs01]

16 hours ago, postfold said:

When I belonged to a semi-private, the Mother's Day buffet and Friday night fish fries were huge draws.  

They are at my club as well. Our kitchen isn’t even open on Saturday nights because it’s too slow, but Friday is busy with the fish fry. 

Edited October 25, 2024 by klebs01

[carrera]

14 hours ago, bcjim said:

That's quite a *loss*.  Must be a decent sized club generating a lot of f/b revenue to lose that much. 

Agree.  I spent a few years on my (mid-sized) club's finance committee, and there is no way our club could absorb a deficit like that.  That would be an extra $200 per month in dues which would result in a member revolt.  We try to operate F&B at close to break even, with profits on things like weddings and special events, and a loss on day-to-day operations.

[caniac6]

5 hours ago, ND2005 said:

 

Your long torment is over 😂

I know I’ve been quite vocal about the food situation, but a lot of guys at the club were equally upset. Within the last few weeks the membership director and the GM had both expressed their displeasure with the chef. It really got so bad that I considered leaving. Fortunately, my wife is a lot more rational than me, and talked me off the ledge.

[Boise59]

I spent 25 years in club management before I became a teaching professional. Restaurants, swimming pool and tennis all lose money for a club, The goal is to have the golf make enough to cover those losses.

 

Many club members get gitsy about the clubhouse and food but those are the areas that cause an assessment/price increase. The golf course is always the money maker and attractor of members. People don't like to hear that but it's accurate.