Another Tiger

[playit]

Will there be one? Jack has more majors, yes, but I am of the opinion that Tiger is the GOAT regarding a multi-year period. I am thinking that there will be another Tiger, just a matter of when. Reason why I think that way is because athletes are just so much stronger these days and technology is allowing us to analyze the golf swing more than ever. Plus statistical and mental health advances. And that there are just so many people on the planet... it's a big world.

 

I was just watching a video of a Drew Cooper, don't know him... but he has what appears to be a very efficient swing and he was hitting a 7iron 200 yds carry. Watched another guy hitting 7iron 215 carry. Crazy distances are noted regularly anymore!

 

It seems every week or so, at the local driving range, I will see some BIG strong guy, and he is murdering the ball. Americans are just so dang big! It's bound to happen. Physical strength does matter, we have all been witness to that over the past few decades.

 

These launch monitors and multi-camera operations are showing us SO much info, it's quite amazing.

 

OTOH... I suppose one could argue that with the size of the field of so many uber-talented golfers, it will be harder to dominate?

Edited October 23, 2024 by playit

[stryper]

Right now it looks like Scottie  has the game to threaten Tiger legacy.  But he’s boring, so no one is quite ready to jump on that train.  🤷🏻‍♂️

[sheepdawg]

All Nicklaus had was Jack Grout. Just think what he could have done with today's tech marvels.

[golferdude54]

Jones was born in 1902. Nicklaus was born in 1940. Tiger was born in 1975. 
 

If there was someone equal to their level born 35-38 years later in 2010-2013, I think they would’ve shown up by now. 
 

Win the US Junior Amateur multiple times, make the cut in a PGA Tour event or even major, win the US Amateur and become #1 in WAGR before graduating high school. That’s the bar.

[straightshot7]

hitting the ball far doesn't make you Tiger, obviously...

 

Being exponentially better than every other golfer on the planet for 10+ years was Tiger...

 

Scottie has done it for 1-2 years. That's why no one sane is buying it until he at least does it for 5.

[tatertot]

The off-season is starting early.

[Birdman62]

20 minutes ago, stryper said:

Right now it looks like Scottie  has the game to threaten Tiger legacy.  But he’s boring, so no one is quite ready to jump on that train.  🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Thru Scottie's age Tiger had 8 majors, and Jack 6; he's simply too far behind.  People forget previous peaky guys like him, such as Johnny Miller or Seve, who didn't age well, as well as ones like David Duval who suddenly lose it.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, golferdude54 said:

Jones was born in 1902. Nicklaus was born in 1940. Tiger was born in 1975. 
 

If there was someone equal to their level born 35-38 years later in 2010-2013, I think they would’ve shown up by now. 
 

Win the US Junior Amateur multiple times, make the cut in a PGA Tour event or even major, win the US Amateur and become #1 in WAGR before graduating high school. That’s the bar.

Which means the kid you’re theorizing is only 11-14 years old!  He might be out there and you just don’t know yet.

 

I’m of the belief there will be another one.  If Scheffler was a great putter like Jack and Tiger he would be the guy.  But there will be one within the next 10-20 years if not sooner.  That’s my guess.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Shilgy

[StoutKing]

The equipment nowadays makes everyone so much more equal.  Maybe with an equipment rollback that separates levels of elite skill would help.  JMO

[playit]

BTW and FWIW...

 

Bobby Jones, 5' 8"

Ben Hogan, 5' 9"

Jack Nicklaus, 5' 10"

Tiger Woods, 6' 1"

Scottie Scheffler, 6' 3"

 

That just dawned on me and seems apropos as to what I was saying in the OP. People (especially Americans) keep getting bigger!

 

I keep seeing guys at the local driving range who are built along the lines of Ernie Els. Just tall and really big guys. Not fat, big. Kill the ball, effortlessly. Of course, you don't have to be big like that but what if somebody comes along who is big like that and has all the other talents. Makes me wonder if you would be less prone to injury with more mass, less stress on the body, including the spine.

[Ferguson]

7 hours ago, stryper said:

Right now it looks like Scottie  has the game to threaten Tiger legacy.  But he’s boring, so no one is quite ready to jump on that train.  🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Good post.  

 

I was going to disagree, then you righted the ship.

 

 

 

[iBanesto]

8 hours ago, stryper said:

Right now it looks like Scottie  has the game to threaten Tiger legacy.  But he’s boring, so no one is quite ready to jump on that train.  🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[GoGoErky]

There’s a chance there will be a lot of never going to be another “so and so” in all sports

 

Probably won’t be another Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens. The chances of seeing a 300 game winner in baseball is getting smaller and smaller. As dominant as Kershaw has been in his career he’s along way from 300.

 

I wish fans, journalists, commentators would stop looking for the next whoever and enjoy the current crop of players on whatever sport. Deeper fields, exciting tournaments every week. It’s a good time for golf

[stryper]

8 hours ago, Birdman62 said:

 

Thru Scottie's age Tiger had 8 majors, and Jack 6; he's simply too far behind.  People forget previous peaky guys like him, such as Johnny Miller or Seve, who didn't age well, as well as ones like David Duval who suddenly lose it.

I didn’t forget Duval, just thought that since he didn’t pan out, his record speaks for itself.  That goes for a lot of players over the years, including Rory and Jordan—similar big-splash entrances that just didn’t sustain.

 

With Scottie it’s a bit different in that while he started a little slower, right now he’s better than everyone else at every part of the game that matters (with the possible exception of putting) and they all know it.  When Tiger showed up it was pretty much him against the field.  With Scottie nowadays, it’s pretty much the same.  
 

Will this continue?  Time will tell, but of course, family considerations (new babies) do derail the train sometimes. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[kmay__]

I think the fame, millions, and celebrity come too soon to these guys now to see anyone be dominant over that long of a stretch. The desire to continue to grind and keep the competitive drive once you've achieved that high level of stardom is what set Tiger apart imo. We've seen many guys over the last 5+ years come out swinging only to fall off once they've achieved some level of success. 

[UPandDOWN4double]

He's here 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, stryper said:

10 hours ago, Birdman62 said:

 

Thru Scottie's age Tiger had 8 majors, and Jack 6; he's simply too far behind.  People forget previous peaky guys like him, such as Johnny Miller or Seve, who didn't age well, as well as ones like David Duval who suddenly lose it.

Expand  

I didn’t forget Duval, just thought that since he didn’t pan out, his record speaks for itself.  That goes for a lot of players over the years, including Rory and Jordan—similar big-splash entrances that just didn’t sustain.

13 wins in a 4 year period plus a major. He lost his game chasing distance because of Tiger, got hurt and also dealt with vertigo that pretty much ended his playing days.

 

Far from not panning out

[stryper]

53 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

13 wins in a 4 year period plus a major. He lost his game chasing distance because of Tiger, got hurt and also dealt with vertigo that pretty much ended his playing days.

 

Far from not panning out

The very definition of not panning out.  Sure, any one of us—and probably most touring pros—would kill for a resume like that, but still he fell well short of the promise he teased us with initially.  

Edited October 23, 2024 by stryper

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

There’s a chance there will be a lot of never going to be another “so and so” in all sports

 

Probably won’t be another Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens. The chances of seeing a 300 game winner in baseball is getting smaller and smaller. As dominant as Kershaw has been in his career he’s along way from 300.

 

I wish fans, journalists, commentators would stop looking for the next whoever and enjoy the current crop of players on whatever sport. Deeper fields, exciting tournaments every week. It’s a good time for golf

Apples to oranges.  There won’t be another 300 game winner for multiple reasons…none have to do with pitching talent.  First and foremost is innings pitched.  The days of complete games and starting pitchers getting decisions is rapidly eroding.  For instance …is Cy Young the best pitcher ever? Or the worst?  He has he most wins in MLB history AND THE MOST LOSSES. 200 wins will be the new 300 and it might get lower over time.  Career active win leaders is stunning….

Verlander 262

Scherzer 216

Kershaw 212

Cole 150
 

in golf the biggest obstacle is having to defeat an increasingly number of top level players to beat each week.  This season there have been 33 different winners in 44 events.  Scottie has 7 wins and 5 players have 2 wins.
 

[blastereod]

There is no doubt the physical prowess of players has grown tremendously over the years,  but I think what tiger had/has that others have not shown is the ability to grind before and after becoming successful and a mental game unmatched so far.

[MtlJeff]

I actually wrote a column on this a while ago back in my days moonlighting as a mostly terrible freelance writer here.

 

I think golf is a sport that has become quite a bit more capitalized talent wise over the years. There's greater international participation, and players now prioritize not just skill but also physical fitness. Money is way higher than it was which attracts even more players. You take a sport that is very capitalized, and also add that there is no defense (Scottie can't stop someone else from shooting a 60) ---And seeing a Tiger-like domination over multiple years seems very unlikely

 

What Scottie did this past year is very impressive. And we may see years like this---but i don't see a Tiger like career anytime soon for anyone

 

I know this angers people, but Jack Nicklaus was largely playing against hobos, ne'er do wells, drifters and people who were just playing their normal weekend rounds and accidentally entered the tournament. Even Tiger in 1997---Did you see how many fatty boombatty's there still was back then? Tiger outdrove these food bags by 30-40 yards.

 

No one is coming up now who had the kinds of advantages they had. You'd need a long driver who actually hit fairways, and who had Spieth's short game

[Putter Addict]

Ummmm... hasn't Talor Gooch already arrived???

[Ironman_32]

Problem is, you can't strip out one thing that Tiger did well and think someone else doing that will get to his level. Tiger did a lot of things, won in interesting and crazy fashion, breathed live into a game that was somewhat getting old. They had to literally change the game and Augusta national because of how he played. It's similar to Roger Bannister, he broke the 4 minute mile, once thought impossible. But no one talks about the 2nd guy who did it, and you have high schoolers doing it now. So, someone can come along and drive it long and putt great, but Tiger already did that, you need someone who changes the game again, but is also marketable and crosses sports lines into mass media. 

 

It's somewhat what the NFL is going through now, everyone knew Tom Brady, good or bad he had a lot that went with him. Now there best player is probably Patrick Mahomes, who draws eyeballs but less eyeballs and interest than Brady. 

[Hawkeye77]

Seems to come up every 6 months or less for the past 15 years - answer . . . no! For all sorts of reasons, but an easy no.

[farmer]

37 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

I actually wrote a column on this a while ago back in my days moonlighting as a mostly terrible freelance writer here.

 

I think golf is a sport that has become quite a bit more capitalized talent wise over the years. There's greater international participation, and players now prioritize not just skill but also physical fitness. Money is way higher than it was which attracts even more players. You take a sport that is very capitalized, and also add that there is no defense (Scottie can't stop someone else from shooting a 60) ---And seeing a Tiger-like domination over multiple years seems very unlikely

 

What Scottie did this past year is very impressive. And we may see years like this---but i don't see a Tiger like career anytime soon for anyone

 

I know this angers people, but Jack Nicklaus was largely playing against hobos, ne'er do wells, drifters and people who were just playing their normal weekend rounds and accidentally entered the tournament. Even Tiger in 1997---Did you see how many fatty boombatty's there still was back then? Tiger outdrove these food bags by 30-40 yards.

 

No one is coming up now who had the kinds of advantages they had. You'd need a long driver who actually hit fairways, and who had Spieth's short game

So, by your measure, Arnie, Billie Casper, Tom Weiskopf, Trevino, Johnny Miller, Tom Watson etal were just lucky club players?  Crenshaw, Irwin, Tom Kite just accidentally showed up?  Ray Floyd?  Yeah, forget about him, just another bum.  Wait, wait, there was this little South African guy, whose name coincidentally was Player, must have been fluky to win anything.  Of course, there were only 60 exempt players, the money wasn't so good, so they had to be damn good to survive.  But don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

[mosesgolf]

Imo we won’t see another Tiger.  
Who will ever match or beat this?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods

[Naptime]

Nope.  Scotty, like many excellent golfers, will likely peak at 5 or 6 majors.  Won't be world #1 for 600+ weeks, etc.

Edited November 4, 2024 by Naptime

[MtlJeff]

7 minutes ago, farmer said:

So, by your measure, Arnie, Billie Casper, Tom Weiskopf, Trevino, Johnny Miller, Tom Watson etal were just lucky club players?  Crenshaw, Irwin, Tom Kite just accidentally showed up?  Ray Floyd?  Yeah, forget about him, just another bum.  Wait, wait, there was this little South African guy, whose name coincidentally was Player, must have been fluky to win anything.  Of course, there were only 60 exempt players, the money wasn't so good, so they had to be damn good to survive.  But don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

 

There were certainly 10-12 other great players, more than that even i'm sure. But the guys finishing 25th in the tournaments Jack won versus the guys finishing 25th now are way different. And depth of field matters because it makes it harder for anyone to win. Jack or Johnny Miller or whomever had to worry less about someone they just met yesterday shooting 63-62 on the weekend. This is going to happen a lot more now than it did in 1973 when the guy in 50th worked at the bank part time.

 

Capitalization of talent in jobs based on increasing compensation isn't a "narrative" as much as it is basic economic principles. By your own admission the money wasn't as good, so many would-be greats likely did other things---that will happen less now. More depth of talent, harder to win 18 majors

[CircleC29]

The biggest thing Tiger had that you don't see from anyone is his killer instinct and mental toughness. Tiger wanted to bury everyone, everytime. He would find a way when he didn't have his best. Could pull off the craziest shots from anywhere and then drain the putt on top of you.

 

Everyone is in shape these days, everyone hits it great but no one comes close to his  mental ability and that killer instinct. 

[Shilgy]

45 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Seems to come up every 6 months or less for the past 15 years - answer . . . no! For all sorts of reasons, but an easy no.

That’s exactly what they said 30 years ago.  Too many good players etc etc.