Another Tiger

[CircleC29]

1 hour ago, CTG77 said:

I think that you'll see a lot more kids these days having the mental coaching to do just that.  Unfortunately, there are multiple guys on tour w/ that same skill set against whom you're fighting each week, all of whom grew up watching Tiger step on people's throats and learning to do the same

No doubt, I think all of these guys have that attitude but how many execute it consistently? Or at all. Jmo but I think there is a difference between having that want and executing it, much less consistently. Especially on the scale that Tiger did. 

 

Scheffler definitely has it but when he's off, he's off. He has an amazing short game but I can't recall any great recovery shots from the who knows where. Not that he gets in deep trouble very often. Maybe it's just the way Scottie goes about it that doesn't make anything stick out to me. He plays boring golf lol

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, m d g said:

 

Palmer, Trevino, Player, Watson, Floyd, Miller, Seve...none of whom would even win their club championship these days. Hacks : )

 

I hate to be crass but they probably wouldn't . A few of them have passed away

[bscinstnct]

9 hours ago, Duct Tape said:

Major wins aside (although clearly a defining factor), Tiger was the GOAT for several other reasons. 
 

683 total weeks at #1.    Over twice Greg Norman in second. 

82 wins on PGAT, 9 wins ahead of Jack and tied with Snead, whose ledger contains, shall we generously say, some soft “PGA” events. 
 

Won US Amateur, perhaps the hardest tournament in golf to win, 3 consecutive times!!!
 

Wins the 1997 Masters by 12 strokes. 
 

Reaches #1 for the first time in 1997, ten months after joining the PGA Tour. 
 

PGA player of the year 11 times. Lowest career scoring average in PGA history 
 

41 wins on the Euro Tour, in third place ferchristssake even though not a regular fixture there. 
 

Takes a 9 iron to the head, endures both a public and private humiliation (deserved) from Billy Payne, falls to #58, returns to #1 in 2013. 

 

Falls to #1199 after surgeries and other injuries, returns to win Tour Championship in 2018 and Masters in 2019. 
 

Best closer, most mentally tough player in the game.  14 - 1 with a share of lead or better in final round of majors. 55 - 4 in all tournaments. Simply beyond belief. 

 

The player every other pro golfer feared, the one they knew would win if in the hunt. Admittedly same could be said about Jack in his era. 
 

Attempting yet another comeback after compound tib-fib fracture where apparently amputation was initially a concern. 
 

Will there be another greater GOAT?  Sports history is full of broken records, and faster/stronger/better athletes. It could happen but future golfers will, as will all athletes attempting to break career records, be more and more constrained by the hard, unyielding boundaries of time.  At best, allowing for slumps, illness, injuries, Genesis loaner cars, a pro golfer is looking at maybe 30 good years to make it happen. Certainly there will still be outlier wins for pros in the 50’s, but competition from younger golfers is getting much tougher and the money is so good the incentive to keep playing a full schedule is smaller. 
 

 

A young golf fan these days can read all of the mind blowing  accomplishments TW had.

 

They can even watch highlights or replays of his best moments and events 

 

But unless you were actually watching TW live in his prime, you just can’t begin to understand the electricity that he brought to the game. 
 

It’s like Jordan or Lawrence Taylor.

 

Just dead silence, people watching, jaws dropping as they do the impossible again and again….

 

and then 

 

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

? When?  Is a win not a top 3?  He had 71 of those.  Sorry but I don’t understand the stat you posted.  Is that third place finishes?  By Tiger’s quotes that would be second loser.😏

 

Jack had the most majors…Tiger had the most wins.

Those are only in majors.

[Shilgy]

8 minutes ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

Those are only in majors.

Ok, so the question to be asked is as @MtlJeff mentioned.  He had an awesome record in majors BUT…..the talent pool was quite thin back then.  Yes, you had guys he played with that were great like Arnie, Player Watson and more.  And for the most part they won the events….and they won the majors.

 

Question is why…..was it they were that great or because of the thin fields?

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Ok, so the question to be asked is as @MtlJeff mentioned.  He had an awesome record in majors BUT…..the talent pool was quite thin back then.  Yes, you had guys he played with that were great like Arnie, Player Watson and more.  And for the most part they won the events….and they won the majors.

 

Question is why…..was it they were that great or because of the thin fields?

I feel like it’s a 1:1 ratio. Jack was so good he was always in ‘the mix’. It’s unbelievable that he did not have more off days or a mediocre four days in majors. The fields are definitely deeper now so there is no way he could have that record now. Tiger was dominant during a ten year period that it would translate to tons of top three finishes back in the 60’s and 70’s. A T-8 now would have been second or third place finish back then. Jack would still have one heck of an Olympic medal 🏅 collection!!

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

On 10/23/2024 at 1:53 PM, GoGoErky said:

Baseball also has a ton of super talented hitters that make dominating pitching harder to come by.

 

But there’s football where we aren’t going to see others like Barry sanders, Emmitt smith, Jerry rice, montana. Marino, Bruce smith, Warren sapp and on and on.

 

talent pool in golf and all sports is pretty high right now

 Basketball 🏀 is the one that disappoints me more than any of them. It’s just a three point shooting contest.

[widow-maker]

You have a lot of guys that have the physical talent but for someone to handle Championship level golf mentally for 10+ years is the real challenge.  You can't convince me that Rory McIlroy didn't have the game to dominate golf for 10 years.  Gary Player had 9 majors and had nowhere near the talent that McIlroy has but he had a will to win that few others have had.  Rory just didn't have the mental capacity to keep up the domination.  If Rory had Gary Player's will to win he'd be up in the double digits by now.  Someone will come along that gets close and people will claim them to be the greatest ever because "golf is different now".  

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, widow-maker said:

You have a lot of guys that have the physical talent but for someone to handle Championship level golf mentally for 10+ years is the real challenge.  You can't convince me that Rory McIlroy didn't have the game to dominate golf for 10 years.  Gary Player had 9 majors and had nowhere near the talent that McIlroy has but he had a will to win that few others have had.  Rory just didn't have the mental capacity to keep up the domination.  If Rory had Gary Player's will to win he'd be up in the double digits by now.  Someone will come along that gets close and people will claim them to be the greatest ever because "golf is different now".  

And if Rory had played when Player did he’d have the most majors in history. And if Player had played in this era he’d be known as Patrick Reed.

[cdnglf]

1 hour ago, widow-maker said:

You have a lot of guys that have the physical talent but for someone to handle Championship level golf mentally for 10+ years is the real challenge.  You can't convince me that Rory McIlroy didn't have the game to dominate golf for 10 years.  Gary Player had 9 majors and had nowhere near the talent that McIlroy has but he had a will to win that few others have had.  Rory just didn't have the mental capacity to keep up the domination.  If Rory had Gary Player's will to win he'd be up in the double digits by now.  Someone will come along that gets close and people will claim them to be the greatest ever because "golf is different now".  

Rory would have lapped the 1959 Open field… when he was 15 years old.

[bscinstnct]

33 minutes ago, cdnglf said:

Rory would have lapped the 1959 Open field… when he was 15 years old.

 

Unless Rory needed a 2-footer on a fast green to close

 

🤣🍻

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Unless Rory needed a 2-footer on a fast green to close

 

🤣🍻

 

 

 

You don’t seem to understand the greens were definitely not fast in 1959.😊

[bscinstnct]

18 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You don’t seem to understand the greens were definitely not fast in 1959.😊

 

😃
 

 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

 Basketball 🏀 is the one that disappoints me more than any of them. It’s just a three point shooting contest.

Yep and they’ve basically abandoned traveling.

 

i don’t even know the last basketball game I watched 

[Titleist99]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

But unless you were actually watching TW live in his prime, you just can’t begin to understand the electricity that he brought to the game. 

You nailed it! When Woods was on the Property, you could literally feel the electricity in the air, and you knew something special was about to happen......It was Tiger against the field.

[PedronNiall]

Biggest factor, already mentioned by others, was the drive Tiger had. Jack had the perfect storm of talent and desire without it consuming him, and he rode the wave to most Major wins. Tiger brought golf into the money era but was so hungry for the accolades that it never distracted him. Guy was so driven he destroyed his body for the pursuit, ironic in his single mindedness actually keeping him from what he most wanted. 

 

Scottie said outright that golf is a job to him; he's never going to burn hot enough with that outlook to come back most times when he's down or hold off every youngblood who also wants the big trophies. Koepka's "only the Majors matter" attitude is never going to see him holding it down often enough either. Bryson will be out any time a gallery rope or ant mound gets in his dander up. 

 

Any of the new kids on the block are going to get complacent once a few big checks roll in. You'd have to be an odd duck to want Tiger/Jack's records enough to play the kind of golf needed to be played for an entire career against modern fields. 

 

Rory could have managed it. When he took his first Majors, Jack and the world at large saw it as a given. 

[Shilgy]

10 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Biggest factor, already mentioned by others, was the drive Tiger had. Jack had the perfect storm of talent and desire without it consuming him, and he rode the wave to most Major wins. Tiger brought golf into the money era but was so hungry for the accolades that it never distracted him. Guy was so driven he destroyed his body for the pursuit, ironic in his single mindedness actually keeping him from what he most wanted. 

 

Scottie said outright that golf is a job to him; he's never going to burn hot enough with that outlook to come back most times when he's down or hold off every youngblood who also wants the big trophies. Koepka's "only the Majors matter" attitude is never going to see him holding it down often enough either. Bryson will be out any time a gallery rope or ant mound gets in his dander up. 

 

Any of the new kids on the block are going to get complacent once a few big checks roll in. You'd have to be an odd duck to want Tiger/Jack's records enough to play the kind of golf needed to be played for an entire career against modern fields. 

 

Rory could have managed it. When he took his first Majors, Jack and the world at large saw it as a given. 

How does that work exactly? You praise Jack for having this great work/life balance but Scottie doesn’t “burn hot enough” because he has the same attitude Jack did?  I could see Scheffler having a very long successful career like Jack because of that attitude.

[ChrisL52188]

On 10/23/2024 at 1:16 PM, Jim53 said:

Ah the good old days of Golf, didn't have to be in shape, have a drink and a cig. Chase woman all night and play golf all day. 

You know those guys had a blast and if they won great, if they made enough to get to the next town just as good.

You just described John Daly.

 

JD was and still is a freak in terms of natural talent.

Edited October 25, 2024 by ChrisL52188

[playit]

7 minutes ago, ChrisL52188 said:

You just described John Daly.

 

JD was and still is a freak in terms of natural talent.

 

You certainly nailed it. I followed him in a match one time, hit every drive very accurate and real high with a slight fade. Had no cares.

[borker]

Unless golf participation declines, YES we will see another Tiger at some point.

 

For a century in MLB we marveled at hitters breaking records. We thought we've seen what is possible as a hitter in the last 20 years starting with steroid Bonds and then evolving to modern hitters facing 100mph pitchers. Mike Trout, Soto and the likes. Then a 6'7 beast comes along name Aaron Judge who will most likely win his 2nd MVP in 3 years.

 

BUT in the face of all these hitters came a guy who was doing things no one thought was even possible before he got hurt. Ohtani completely changed the game and is the new "best player of all-time". Being able to pitch 100mph with a 3 ERA, striking out said modern MLB hitters, he himself is also an elite top-5 hitter as well.

 

Sports and humans continue to evolve and we will eventually see another level beyond Tiger at some point. When I watched Bubba Watson win the Master's I was convinced some long-drive type guy was going to eventually come along and change the game.  Just being unstoppable if he could put together all facets of golf. When I first saw Bryson I thought he was going to be it. He had the length, smarts and work-ethic. It just didn't pan out.

 

Unless we are currently at what is possible with equipment at legal limits that limits scoring, we will eventually see another GOAT.

 

[dropkicked]

The old saying goes "Pressure creates Diamonds".. These generations are pretty soft...

Tiger wanted to rip your throat out and hand it to you, then shake your hand... I'm sure Jack was of the same mindset.. Both absolute killers.

[aenemated]

Tiger was raised by a particular sort of man that doesn't really exist anymore. The country club kids that wind up on tour nowadays; they're not going to have the chip on their shoulder and absolute fire influence of an Earl Woods. Too soft. 

 

There's a difference between a strong desire to win and a personal vendetta. That was the real difference between Tiger and everyone else. 

[bscinstnct]

52 minutes ago, borker said:

Unless golf participation declines, YES we will see another Tiger at some point.

 

For a century in MLB we marveled at hitters breaking records. We thought we've seen what is possible as a hitter in the last 20 years starting with steroid Bonds and then evolving to modern hitters facing 100mph pitchers. Mike Trout, Soto and the likes. Then a 6'7 beast comes along name Aaron Judge who will most likely win his 2nd MVP in 3 years.

 

BUT in the face of all these hitters came a guy who was doing things no one thought was even possible before he got hurt. Ohtani completely changed the game and is the new "best player of all-time". Being able to pitch 100mph with a 3 ERA, striking out said modern MLB hitters, he himself is also an elite top-5 hitter as well.

 

Sports and humans continue to evolve and we will eventually see another level beyond Tiger at some point. When I watched Bubba Watson win the Master's I was convinced some long-drive type guy was going to eventually come along and change the game.  Just being unstoppable if he could put together all facets of golf. When I first saw Bryson I thought he was going to be it. He had the length, smarts and work-ethic. It just didn't pan out.

 

Unless we are currently at what is possible with equipment at legal limits that limits scoring, we will eventually see another GOAT.

 

 

For a baseball player to do what TW did in golf, they would need to

 

Hit .420

 

Hit 90+ home runs 

 

And drive 160+ RBIs

 

And do it in multiple years! 🤣

 

.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2024 by bscinstnct

[playit]

3 minutes ago, aenemated said:

Tiger was raised by a particular sort of man that doesn't really exist anymore. The country club kids that wind up on tour nowadays; they're not going to have the chip on their shoulder and absolute fire influence of an Earl Woods. Too soft. 

 

There's a difference between a strong desire to win and a personal vendetta. That was the real difference between Tiger and everyone else. 

And, perhaps, his mother should be recognized for instilling Buddhist meditative practices into her young son. Tiger said that himself. No doubt, his mental game, two very opposite types from the two parents, was superior.

 

But, it's a big world. No telling who will come along. Even someone along the lines of a Moe Norman, whom some have said was an acquired savant after having a brain injury as a young child.

[Duct Tape]

7 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How does that work exactly? You praise Jack for having this great work/life balance but Scottie doesn’t “burn hot enough” because he has the same attitude Jack did?  I could see Scheffler having a very long successful career like Jack because of that attitude.

If he stays out of jail.        🤓

[sheepdawg]

Nobody has even mentioned Ben Hogan.

[cdnglf]

2 hours ago, sheepdawg said:

Nobody has even mentioned Ben Hogan.

 
One of the greatest players ever. Maybe even as high as #3

[sheepdawg]

1 hour ago, cdnglf said:

 
One of the greatest players ever. Maybe even as high as #3

I don't think it's a maybe. I'm sure a some folks would have him right there with Jack and Tiger. And all three had issues to overcome.

 

Jack beat polio.

Tiger beat a nine iron.

Ben beat a Greyhound bus.

[PedronNiall]

23 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How does that work exactly? You praise Jack for having this great work/life balance but Scottie doesn’t “burn hot enough” because he has the same attitude Jack did?  I could see Scheffler having a very long successful career like Jack because of that attitude.

 

Scottie doesn't have the same attitude Jack did. Jack may have seen golf as less than priority one but he also wanted to be the best when he teed it up every single time. There's a reason Jack has all the 2nds he does at Majors on top of the most number 1s. Scheffler doesn't have that fire in the same way at all. 

 

Yes, Jack walked the line between being Tiger and Scottie about as perfectly as one could. They are three different men in how they approached the game, though they certainly share a number of traits overall. Tiger wanted it all no matter the cost. Jack wanted it all but not at the expense of being the husband and father he wanted to be. Scottie certainly prioritizes family like Jack but he by no means exudes the same passion to win.

 

Watch his presser at The Masters this year and then try and tell me his drive to play sounds anything like Jack's. Watch any notable round with Jack vs any with Scottie and tell me you really think they each want the titles in the same way. You think Tiger or Jack would have pouted their way around the course when they're having an off day or two the way Scottie did this year at The Open? 

 

They are not the same in their approach to the game. 

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Scottie doesn't have the same attitude Jack did. Jack may have seen golf as less than priority one but he also wanted to be the best when he teed it up every single time. There's a reason Jack has all the 2nds he does at Majors on top of the most number 1s. Scheffler doesn't have that fire in the same way at all. 

 

Yes, Jack walked the line between being Tiger and Scottie about as perfectly as one could. They are three different men in how they approached the game, though they certainly share a number of traits overall. Tiger wanted it all no matter the cost. Jack wanted it all but not at the expense of being the husband and father he wanted to be. Scottie certainly prioritizes family like Jack but he by no means exudes the same passion to win.

 

Watch his presser at The Masters this year and then try and tell me his drive to play sounds anything like Jack's. Watch any notable round with Jack vs any with Scottie and tell me you really think they each want the titles in the same way. You think Tiger or Jack would have pouted their way around the course when they're having an off day or two the way Scottie did this year at The Open? 

 

They are not the same in their approach to the game. 

When there are 33 different winners in 44 events on tour….no one else has more than two wins and you have seven….and guys still trash your drive and will to win. 
 

  He may not “exude” it in your eyes but the drive is obviously there.