The most annoying thing in golf, and it's not pace of play

[larrybud]

I will die on this hill: Dumb/poor pin positions.

 

5th hole at my club yesterday, pin is so close to the false front and green speeds so high, that balls cannot stay on the green. One playing partner had a putt, BARELY missed it on the HIGH side (if the green were flat he would have ended a foot from the hole), and it rolled off the front of the green. Balls impossible to stop when going down hill.

 

Every pin setter should get the bubble level app on their phone, and measure 3' around the hole in 4 spots and make sure it doesn't go over a certain percent grade (that value depending on their green speeds). At our club, anything > 2% and the ball will not stop going downhill.

 

Putting the pin there does NOTHING for the quality of play, and in fact only slows things down.

 

[nmadde02]

Soft fairways… hit a normal wedge and dig a hole 6 inches in the ground…try to sweep at it and blade it over the green

[jda]

Everybody jokes that the pin cutters did not get laid the night before when the pins suck.  In HS, a friend worked at a course and this was 100% accurate - got into a fight with his GF and ever pin was short sided by a bunker, off a ridge or by the water.

 

I feel like this is never a mistake and all of them 100% know what they are doing.  You could give them survey equipment that they take to the moon or the mariana trench and they would not use them.

[caniac6]

When I worked at courses I would try to set it up with 6 easy, 6 medium, and 6 tough hole positions. The 6 tough were always placed that had a risk if the player tried to go after it. If they played to the wide side, they might have a longer putt, but they never had putts that were near severe slopes or false fronts. I always thought my job was to present a reasonably challenging course that was fun to play. 

[596]

31 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

When I worked at courses I would try to set it up with 6 easy, 6 medium, and 6 tough hole positions. The 6 tough were always placed that had a risk if the player tried to go after it. If they played to the wide side, they might have a longer putt, but they never had putts that were near severe slopes or false fronts. I always thought my job was to present a reasonably challenging course that was fun to play. 

^^^ this

 

Not only that but if the green had a bad spot I would set a pin so most of the traffic would probably avoid that spot. I could place pins to direct golfers away from where I wanted less traffic.  Also, if a lot of low caps were playing in a money game that day I'd set tough pins and move the markers back.

[NewToGolf19]

Totally agree. We sometimes have a pin placement on #9 that is a joke (not in a funny way). You could putt uphill, and if you don’t make the putt, it rolls right back to you. I would play mini golf if I wanted to.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

The most annoying thing in golf has nothing to do with the course. It's having a great day of practice, and following it up with a bad round. Might as well have just used a putter.

I'm hard enough on myself, but when you go from decent to crappy like that it's pretty much the most annoying thing in golf. LOL

Edited November 11, 2024 by GwrxMod
profanity

[tatertot]

9 hours ago, larrybud said:

I will die on this hill: Dumb/poor pin positions.

 

5th hole at my club yesterday, pin is so close to the false front and green speeds so high, that balls cannot stay on the green. One playing partner had a putt, BARELY missed it on the HIGH side (if the green were flat he would have ended a foot from the hole), and it rolled off the front of the green. Balls impossible to stop when going down hill.

 

Every pin setter should get the bubble level app on their phone, and measure 3' around the hole in 4 spots and make sure it doesn't go over a certain percent grade (that value depending on their green speeds). At our club, anything > 2% and the ball will not stop going downhill.

 

Putting the pin there does NOTHING for the quality of play, and in fact only slows things down.

 

We struggle with the same thing ... we have quite a few false fronts, and the hole-cutter hasn't figured out you can't use those spots. The clubhouse tell you to "keep the ball below the hole" ... and then cut a pin on a false front 6 feet from the front edge.

[NorthTexasGlfr]

Man, I can relate to this. Almost half of our greens have some degree of a false front, from slight to severe. And things can get pretty dicey. We have one hole that is uphill for the last 50 yards or so and we've seen putts roll all the way back to the bottom of the slope. 

 

Related to this, we also have a par 4 with water all the way down the left side, that you have to play a cut around a tree about 30-40 yards off the tee. And that's assuming that they put the tee markers on the left side of the tee box. Which is not a given, lol. Then it becomes a full slice around the tree. And have I mentioned that the prevailing wind is usually right to left, lol. 

Edited November 3, 2024 by NorthTexasGlfr

[Cliffy2020]

https://golf.com/news/impossible-pin-location-chaos-hs-state-championship/

 

Played here Monday.  Pin was in the front and my wedge stayed on the second tier.  Touch the ball to get it rolling and off the green and down the hill she goes.  
 

double bogey final hole for a 70  🤬

[596]

32 minutes ago, Cliffy2020 said:

https://golf.com/news/impossible-pin-location-chaos-hs-state-championship/

 

Played here Monday.  Pin was in the front and my wedge stayed on the second tier.  Touch the ball to get it rolling and off the green and down the hill she goes.  
 

double bogey final hole for a 70  🤬

And that is what happens when you have greens running too fast for the slopes and poor pin placement.   

 

I've played a few courses where the greens were so fast it was like playing putt putt golf.

[Cliffy2020]

On the flip side.  Played a charity 4-man scramble/best shot with 8” cups on the same course in the rain today.  Every pin was center cut.  It was pretty boring.

 

If you think about it with the center pins, any shot on the green was kind of makeable from the edges to the center.  
 

With pins on the edges, if you just hit the center of the greens you have the same makeable putt.  But if you flare it to the opposite edge you have a much much longer putt.  
 

Food for thought 🤔

[Shilgy]

6 hours ago, 596 said:

^^^ this

 

Not only that but if the green had a bad spot I would set a pin so most of the traffic would probably avoid that spot. I could place pins to direct golfers away from where I wanted less traffic.  Also, if a lot of low caps were playing in a money game that day I'd set tough pins and move the markers back.

Most courses the hole cutter knows little about golf. So stupid positions happen. I asked our super one day why they don’t move the tees around a bit. Save wear and tear on the tee boxes. I asked if they could keep same relative yardage but have one tee, an example, moved up 20 yards and a couple moved back 10 yards to balance it out. He laughed and said for the guys cutting tees that would be well above their abilities.

  Same with the pin positions. If they’re not told to not put a pin in certain spots how would they know better?  Ideally every course the hole cutter would have some golf experience.

[Rocky Ball-boa]

9 hours ago, nmadde02 said:

Soft fairways… hit a normal wedge and dig a hole 6 inches in the ground…try to sweep at it and blade it over the green

Yeah, nothing exposes duffed wedges like soggy winter golf. Duff a couple, they go 15% of the way there, spend the rest of the round terrified of doing it again and blading them 30 yds past instead. Yay.

[596]

17 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Most courses the hole cutter knows little about golf. So stupid positions happen. I asked our super one day why they don’t move the tees around a bit. Save wear and tear on the tee boxes. I asked if they could keep same relative yardage but have one tee, an example, moved up 20 yards and a couple moved back 10 yards to balance it out. He laughed and said for the guys cutting tees that would be well above their abilities.

  Same with the pin positions. If they’re not told to not put a pin in certain spots how would they know better?  Ideally every course the hole cutter would have some golf experience.

We have an annual tournament that's 3 days that has been going on for over 50 years. I retired 7 years ago and I still cut all 27 holes for 3 days for that tournament each year.  Takes me about 2 1/2 hours to cut 27 holes each morning. I'm done before dawn.

 

I will admit that it's sometimes hard to see slopes and some bad spots when it's pitch black outside.  

[PJE]

The USGA? 

[bekgolf]

12 hours ago, larrybud said:

I will die on this hill: Dumb/poor pin positions.

 

5th hole at my club yesterday, pin is so close to the false front and green speeds so high, that balls cannot stay on the green. One playing partner had a putt, BARELY missed it on the HIGH side (if the green were flat he would have ended a foot from the hole), and it rolled off the front of the green. Balls impossible to stop when going down hill.

 

Every pin setter should get the bubble level app on their phone, and measure 3' around the hole in 4 spots and make sure it doesn't go over a certain percent grade (that value depending on their green speeds). At our club, anything > 2% and the ball will not stop going downhill.

 

Putting the pin there does NOTHING for the quality of play, and in fact only slows things down.

 

 

100% with you on this.

 

My own experience from earlier this year involved taking a road trip with a large group of guys for an overnight golf trip at a very nice course. 

 

Some of the holes were impossible, one that really sticks out was on a mound (everything sloped down) with quick, firm greens and no collar to hold a ball.  I missed by a few inches and my ball runs off the green to the bottom, maybe 15 ft. of elevation, second shot goes up to within a foot and rolls all the way back, I didn't have to move because it came right back to me.  It was one of those holes that have to hit center cup or else it's going away.

 

Shenanigans set up is my term for it.  It's not testing skill and it slows the course down.  It's also very frustrating.  I get upset when the US Open has shenanigan holes because they don't test the golfer as much as they test the golfers luck that day.

 

Thanks for posting, I've been holding onto that one for awhile, lol.

[Double Mocha Man]

13 hours ago, larrybud said:

I will die on this hill: Dumb/poor pin positions.

 

5th hole at my club yesterday, pin is so close to the false front and green speeds so high, that balls cannot stay on the green. One playing partner had a putt, BARELY missed it on the HIGH side (if the green were flat he would have ended a foot from the hole), and it rolled off the front of the green. Balls impossible to stop when going down hill.

 

Every pin setter should get the bubble level app on their phone, and measure 3' around the hole in 4 spots and make sure it doesn't go over a certain percent grade (that value depending on their green speeds). At our club, anything > 2% and the ball will not stop going downhill.

 

Putting the pin there does NOTHING for the quality of play, and in fact only slows things down.

 

 

I was once playing a solo round and the Course Superintendent (a friend) came over to chat a bit and watch me putt out on #12.  The pin had been set on the front of the green and I was 35 feet past it on the uphill side.  I stroked a good putt and it cozied up to the pin, paused, then rolled 20 more feet off the green.  Scottie was immediately on his phone calling his crew to get out there right away and move the hole.

[Double Mocha Man]

8 hours ago, NewToGolf19 said:

Totally agree. We sometimes have a pin placement on #9 that is a joke (not in a funny way). You could putt uphill, and if you don’t make the putt, it rolls right back to you. I would play mini golf if I wanted to.

 

I was playing with a friend who had a steep 4-ft uphill putt. He knocked it a foot by the hole but then it rolled back toward him and plopped in! 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, bekgolf said:

Shenanigans set up is my term for it.  It's not testing skill and it slows the course down.  It's also very frustrating.  I get upset when the US Open has shenanigan holes because they don't test the golfer as much as they test the golfers luck that day.

 

Phil knows what to do on a shenanigan US Open green.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2024 by Double Mocha Man

[James the Hogan Fan]

I'm actually leaving my club over this. Not just the hole locations (though I have wondered aloud if the staff knows a flag can be more than 8 feet from the edge of a green) but that a number of the greens only have 2-3 possible locations due to the slopes, and those locations are borderline.

 

Examples include 1 and 6, both saddle greens where the first 20 feet is a false front, the middle 15 feet is flat, and the back 10 feet falls away. Unless you have tour height and spin, a ball that lands on the flat bounces over the crown and rolls off, a ball that lands on the false front stops dead leaving you a 30+ footer up the hill, and if you hit that too hard you can watch it roll off the other side. The 5th is an abomination with a 4-5' tier, the upper shelf being a whopping 5 yards deep and sloped (again) away from the shot (a 165 yard uphill par 3). 

 

Point is, every green, most hole locations if you're outside 10' you're putting extremely defensively. I'm not really a fan of a ball that missed three yards left and on the green being punished as severely as a shot that missed 30 yards right (automatic 3 putt down a tier)

 

It's just made the game unfun to play. 

[signats]

Dang.....I thought this was going to be a thread about PepperTurbo

[larrybud]

10 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Most courses the hole cutter knows little about golf. So stupid positions happen. I asked our super one day why they don’t move the tees around a bit. Save wear and tear on the tee boxes. I asked if they could keep same relative yardage but have one tee, an example, moved up 20 yards and a couple moved back 10 yards to balance it out. He laughed and said for the guys cutting tees that would be well above their abilities.

  Same with the pin positions. If they’re not told to not put a pin in certain spots how would they know better?  Ideally every course the hole cutter would have some golf experience.

 

That's such a lazy BS answer by the super. It's HIS JOB to teach them these things.

[larrybud]

11 hours ago, Cliffy2020 said:

On the flip side.  Played a charity 4-man scramble/best shot with 8” cups on the same course in the rain today.  Every pin was center cut.  It was pretty boring.

 

Well, it's a charity scramble. 8" cups are dumb but center cut pins I would be fine with. You don't want to be out there all day.

[larrybud]

10 hours ago, 596 said:

We have an annual tournament that's 3 days that has been going on for over 50 years. I retired 7 years ago and I still cut all 27 holes for 3 days for that tournament each year.  Takes me about 2 1/2 hours to cut 27 holes each morning. I'm done before dawn.

 

I will admit that it's sometimes hard to see slopes and some bad spots when it's pitch black outside.  

 

That's why you should use a bubble level app on your phone. You don't need to see or judge it, it will be lit up and measured for you.

[MtlJeff]

Our course has gotten better, but a few years ago i actually complained to our greens committee. I also am not a big fan at all of gimmicky pins or flat out unfair pins. 

 

One of our 9s has a lot of ridges/spines in the greens and for whatever reason they love putting flags there. It really wasn't complicated to just put them in the sections somewhere instead than right on the spine. But you'd have like 3 holes like this out of 9

 

Another big problem was that they taught the guys putting in the flags that if they dropped the ball on the green and it didn't roll--then it was an OK pin position. But they put in the flags at 6AM when the course is soaked. By 1pm the course plays way differently. One year we had to change flags 2 different times during events because balls were just rolling back to guy's feet if they missed

 

It's gotten way better

[jda]

I get just as annoyed when the tee markers are perpendicular to the lake or 30 yards out of bounds.  The people who put them down either have no idea about the game or as doing it as a joke.  On one of the courses near me, the old guys who go out early often move them.

[tgarit1]

On 11/3/2024 at 8:31 AM, larrybud said:

I will die on this hill: Dumb/poor pin positions.

 

5th hole at my club yesterday, pin is so close to the false front and green speeds so high, that balls cannot stay on the green. One playing partner had a putt, BARELY missed it on the HIGH side (if the green were flat he would have ended a foot from the hole), and it rolled off the front of the green. Balls impossible to stop when going down hill.

 

Every pin setter should get the bubble level app on their phone, and measure 3' around the hole in 4 spots and make sure it doesn't go over a certain percent grade (that value depending on their green speeds). At our club, anything > 2% and the ball will not stop going downhill.

 

Putting the pin there does NOTHING for the quality of play, and in fact only slows things down.

 

Couldn't agree more!

[Maine Golfer]

On 11/3/2024 at 11:06 AM, jda said:

Everybody jokes that the pin cutters did not get laid the night before when the pins suck.  In HS, a friend worked at a course and this was 100% accurate - got into a fight with his GF and ever pin was short sided by a bunker, off a ridge or by the water.

 

I feel like this is never a mistake and all of them 100% know what they are doing.  You could give them survey equipment that they take to the moon or the mariana trench and they would not use them.

Post of the decade

[vel]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:59 AM, nmadde02 said:

Soft fairways… hit a normal wedge and dig a hole 6 inches in the ground…try to sweep at it and blade it over the green

Playing in Seattle, I've accepted most of my rounds play like this 😂