Sellers beware! ... BUYERS BEWARE (*** Resolved ***)

[GwrxMod]

Topics merged.

 

[Valtiel]

Regardless what the actual outcome is here, this should never be how this kind of dispute starts because:

1) Not all manufacturers measure length the same, especially when we also factor in an independent builder
2) Not all custom orders end up being accurate
3) Using a tape measure is unlikely to satisfy *any* of the standards in #1

Nothing should have been escalated until these were taken to a shop and measured with a proper ruler. At most these initial measurements should have been that catalyst for a "hey I have some concerns based on rough length measurements as they appear to be shorter than advertised, are you open to a return if I take these to a shop to measure on a USGA ruler and they turn out to be short?"

These types of disputes always go sideways like this when accusations and hostility come *before* due diligence. 

[Long Shot]

The fact that @russian7 escalated this so fast to paypal with very unclear at the least proof of an intentional fraud; makes me red flag him big time. Def seems like a WRXer who is not easy to work with.  Something is fishy and seems off to me. Been a member and selling here enough to tell something is off. 

[russian7]

1 hour ago, JMB3 said:

Are you suggesting the OEM never gets a custom build wrong?  I wish that was the case.

True...

[russian7]

Just now, Long Shot said:

The fact that @russian7 escalated this so fast to paypal with very unclear at the least proof of an intentional fraud; makes me red flag him big time. Def seems like a WRXer who is not easy to work with.  Something is fishy and seems off to me. Been a member and selling here enough to tell something is off. 

I been on here years since the early days myself, I rarely ever run into issues on any forum and everyone locally ises me for all kinds of golf stuff, Im not worried about what some guy on wrx who has never met me thinks.

 

*Keep in mind Im the buyer, not the seller its not mybproduct in queation, just wanted what I was expecting to get to be right.

 

*Im not here trying to do anything other than get what I paid for, I offered solutions. The seller was quick to get defensive apparently know it all and offered nothing in support to resolve anythg so that tells me all I need to know about working with him.

[Long Shot]

2 minutes ago, russian7 said:

I been on here years since the early days myself, I rarely ever run into issues on any forum and everyone locally ises me for all kinds of golf stuff, Im not worried about what some guy on wrx who has never met me thinks.

 

*Keep in mind Im the buyer, not the seller its not mybproduct in queation, just wanted what I was expecting to get to be right.

 

*Im not here trying to do anything other than get what I paid for, I offered solutions. The seller was quick to get defensive apparently know it all and offered nothing in support to resolve anythg so that tells me all I need to know about working with him.

Also isn't the first time you had an issue selling on WRX that involved the length of clubs. In that case you were the seller. Unfortunately you have two negative feedbacks and both involve accusations about the lengths of clubs.  

[Bad9]

2 minutes ago, russian7 said:

...*Im not here trying to do anything other than get what I paid for, ...

 

It seems at least some of us who commented think you actually did get what you paid for based on the pics that you provided.

[russian7]

20 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Regardless what the actual outcome is here, this should never be how this kind of dispute starts because:

1) Not all manufacturers measure length the same, especially when we also factor in an independent builder
2) Not all custom orders end up being accurate
3) Using a tape measure is unlikely to satisfy *any* of the standards in #1

Nothing should have been escalated until these were taken to a shop and measured with a proper ruler. At most these initial measurements should have been that catalyst for a "hey I have some concerns based on rough length measurements as they appear to be shorter than advertised, are you open to a return if I take these to a shop to measure on a USGA ruler and they turn out to be short?"

These types of disputes always go sideways like this when accusations and hostility come *before* due diligence. 

100% and to your point I raised the question and get the Im unqualified to measure and theres only 1 way to measure and his guy is correct. To me thats a red flag, no support offered and unwilling to work with me but rather just argue so thats why it got escalated. More for his quick to defend and blame than anything else, if me I would offer a return which Ive done or money back. 

 

I even told him today I was ordering extensions I would find 2 grips and have the work done if he wanted to avoid returns and kick me like $30, sounded fair to me...no reply.

 

I tried to resolve and got nowhere.

 

[Long Shot]

7 minutes ago, russian7 said:

I been on here years since the early days myself, I rarely ever run into issues on any forum and everyone locally ises me for all kinds of golf stuff, Im not worried about what some guy on wrx who has never met me thinks.

 

*Keep in mind Im the buyer, not the seller its not mybproduct in queation, just wanted what I was expecting to get to be right.

 

*Im not here trying to do anything other than get what I paid for, I offered solutions. The seller was quick to get defensive apparently know it all and offered nothing in support to resolve anythg so that tells me all I need to know about working with him.

 Edit - Answered

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by Long Shot

[5underdouble]

Even without a proper club measuring ruler, can we get some full length pictures of these clubs laying next to the tape measure or a meter stick?  

[russian7]

5 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Also isn't the first time you had an issue selling on WRX that involved the length of clubs. In that case you were the seller. Unfortunately you have two negative feedbacks and both involve accusations about the lengths of clubs.  

That 1 time in my history I was the seller, i re-sold based on description and did not measure and offered support as I did not know. Either way Im only out to do good business based on reputation so if Im wrong I handle it an own up. 

Edited November 24, 2024 by russian7

[Long Shot]

1 minute ago, russian7 said:

That 1 time in my history I was the seller, i re-sold based on description and did not measure and offered support as I did not know. Either way Im only out to do good business based on reputation so if Im wrong I handle it an own up. 

Just saying a person cannot lean on their reputation, especially in this dispute when they had a previous negative feedback involving the measurement of clubs and this one involves a similar issue. 

[swwpp5]

@russian7 you have only 2 positive feedbacks since your negative feedback on length. Plus, if you had such a good resolution with the buyer why is the negative feedback still there?? I have 24 positive feedback experiences in the last year and have 40+ more transactions than you. I’m an active member on BST with a flawless reputation until you decided to leave me negative feedback based on your measurement. Had you not asked for refund before taking them elsewhere to be measured and not left me negative feedback before doing so we wouldn’t be here. 

[russian7]

4 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Just saying a person cannot lean on their reputation, especially in this dispute when they had a previous negative feedback involving the measurement of clubs and this one involves a similar issue. 

I'm not saying that isn't true and that was my own fault not to check and I owned up to that...usually I depend on the people I'm buying from to be honest and most people don't have all the tools for every single thing to check loft and lies, lengths, SW, etc, 

 

If we judged every person by their 1 mistake we would be wrong about a lot of people right?

 

Reputation/feedback is not the only indicator and not always correct nor is it a future indicator.

 

Either way I offered a solution or return Im not asking for anything crazy, is that wrong?

[russian7]

1 minute ago, swwpp5 said:

@russian7 you have only 2 positive feedbacks since your negative feedback on length. Plus, if you had such a good resolution with the buyer why is the negative feedback still there?? I have 24 positive feedback experiences in the last year and have 40+ more transactions than you. I’m an active member on BST with a flawless reputation until you decided to leave me negative feedback based on your measurement. Had you not asked for refund before taking them elsewhere to be measured and not left me negative feedback before doing so we wouldn’t be here. 

I never ask for feedback bud so that depends on sellers, I sell on multiple platforms an done lots of business with 100s of people no issues. You were the one offering nothing for support, ridiculed me and my measurements and knowledge and then took it to saying you were reporting me to the moderators so it seems like you escalated it before I did because my movement was after yours

[squishyy]

20 minutes ago, russian7 said:

That 1 time in my history I was the seller, i re-sold based on description and did not measure and offered support as I did not know. Either way Im only out to do good business based on reputation so if Im wrong I handle it an own up. 

 

I don't know the outcome of this but your feedback left for the previous seller seems retaliatory and never mentioned if any support was offered. Not sure why you felt the need to leave a negative feedback for him either rather than seek to resolve the issue.

 

Anyway, you seem to understand that methods of measuring are different from manufacturers. SWPP said the irons were built off of USGA method with a measuring device. You showed 2 pictures measuring with a tape ruler and albeit half pictures where we don't know where the tip of the ruler was measured from. He has not been shown any hard proof at this point and you are pushing for him to help cover extensions on what basis? Per your words?

 

I really hope we find a resolution to your issue and the only way to do this is to provide a full picture of the wedges, including yours, laying on a measuring device. Then I believe this is where SWPP will take responsibility if they are indeed not the stated length.

 

There's nothing else to contribute to this thread. It's all hearsay at this point.

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by squishyy

[snapier]

In this situation and others like it, why is the seller reluctant to accept a return and be done with it

[Long Shot]

Just now, russian7 said:

I never ask for feedback bud so that depends on sellers, I sell on multiple platforms an done lots of business with 100s of people no issues. You were the one offering nothing for support, ridiculed me and my measurements and knowledge and then took it to saying you were reporting me to the moderators so it seems like you escalated it before I did because my movement was after yours

This is just more nonsense, lets face it you didn't measure them correctly, became irrationally upset and impatient. I suggest you send them back asap (at your expense) and then allow @swwpp5 to refund you and then be done with you. 

[squishyy]

Just now, snapier said:

In this situation and others like it, why is the seller reluctant to accept a return and be done with it

 

For many reasons:

 

1. Having to repost the items to sell again, wasting more time.

2. Losing PP fees/shipping cost.

 

Seller stated lengths are correct. Why should he accept a return without hard evidence that they are not? To him, they are as advertised. But he is being pushed by russian7 to pay for extensions without being shown they were not as described.

[swwpp5]

I would be willing to refund @russian7if he sends them back on his own dime.

 

[Long Shot]

1 minute ago, snapier said:

In this situation and others like it, why is the seller reluctant to accept a return and be done with it

Because this is a common fraud technique. Regardless of whether or not they send the item back in the condition you sent it to them, you are at the mercy of the buyer. If someone hits the clubs marks them up you lose resale value. Another common scam is that a buyer knows to ask for a partial refund knowing it still will be cheaper than the seller having to pay return shipping. Don't get me wrong at times things happen and sellers are at fault, but when it is done with loose evidence and looks clearly like a temper tantrum you are reluctant as a seller to take the item back, so I get it. 

[russian7]

4 minutes ago, snapier said:

In this situation and others like it, why is the seller reluctant to accept a return and be done with it

Exactly, Ive never denied a return just for feedback purposes, its fine whatever but this ia blown up an wasting everyones time when it should have been resolves quicker without a public audience and comments galore

[Red4282]

To my eyes, they look the correct length 🤷‍♂️. 

[russian7]

5 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

This is just more nonsense, lets face it you didn't measure them correctly, became irrationally upset and impatient. I suggest you send them back asap (at your expense) and then allow @swwpp5 to refund you and then be done with you. 

Says who? You? His buddy probably, I dont think so, why would I waste my time on it if it wasn't legit I got better things to do with my time than sit here and listen to everyone's opinions when there are tons of different ways to measure and better ways of solving problems. You guys aren't the panel here it's not like a decision is going to be made on everyone's individual opinion on this forum so I'm not too worried about it.

[russian7]

8 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Because this is a common fraud technique. Regardless of whether or not they send the item back in the condition you sent it to them, you are at the mercy of the buyer. If someone hits the clubs marks them up you lose resale value. Another common scam is that a buyer knows to ask for a partial refund knowing it still will be cheaper than the seller having to pay return shipping. Don't get me wrong at times things happen and sellers are at fault, but when it is done with loose evidence and looks clearly like a temper tantrum you are reluctant as a seller to take the item back, so I get it. 

Come on man how many people are really out here doing that you think people are that hard up with a good reputation that they're trying to buy something just to hit a few balls send it back and then try and negotiate to save like 10 bucks... I don't think so and I notified him immediately upon shipment delivery so all of that stuff you are stating has nothing to do with me

[russian7]

4 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

To my eyes, they look the correct length 🤷‍♂️. 

I dont think so...If these were 3/8 in over with whatever build method he decided over the standard length of ping don't you think they would still be comparable to other wedges or you trying to tell me that ping is that much shorter than everyone else that building 3/8" over would equate to a club that measures that much shorter than other mfrs? 

[russian7]

Also, its my time and money to go find a shop drive and pay to have measured and get a sign off for this guy. Waste of my time as an adult to do something I shouldnt have to do. Unfortunately now its either say screw for hassle sake, or go get it done and waste my time to get closure amd take action.

[Bad9]

11 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Says who? You? His buddy probably, I dont think so, why would I waste my time on it if it wasn't legit I got better things to do with my time than sit here and listen to everyone's opinions when there are tons of different ways to measure and better ways of solving problems. You guys aren't the panel here it's not like a decision is going to be made on everyone's individual opinion on this forum so I'm not too worried about it.

 

Then why did you start a thread on it?

[jrg75]

May not help but I have 100% stock Ping S159 wedges in 48, 54 and 60 degree lofts.  I also have a golf mechanics bench ruler which uses the 60 degree lie angle for measurement. I got exactly 35.25", 35.50" and 35.75" for the 60, 54 and 48, respectively.

48 degree

54 degree

60 degree

 

[Pnwpingi210]

8 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Also, its my time and money to go find a shop drive and pay to have measured and get a sign off for this guy. Waste of my time as an adult to do something I shouldnt have to do. Unfortunately now its either say screw for hassle sake, or go get it done and waste my time to get closure amd take action.

You’re disputing the length of the clubs.  In doing so you take on the responsibility for validating your dispute.