Sellers beware! ... BUYERS BEWARE (*** Resolved ***)

[golffeen007]

4 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Exactly that's all I'm saying but all of these guys can't let it go because they were bashing me for so long despite me making additional purchases coming out of pocket traveling to places to get a picture and doing all this stuff they still want to continue to pile in on me despite the facts when I'm not in the wrong and I was the buyer so again I have no problem removing my case but the seller has done nothing but talk bad about about me and offer nothing in a solution except for publicly to appear he is a good guy so I think in most situations people are going to be a little frustrated and not as willing to cooperate after they have proved themselves right time and time again and everyone refusing to accept it. Like I said from the beginning I have had thousands of positive transactions across various platforms and I am well known in the community here for my business dealings with golf items so I was never once concerned about my reputation other than a bunch of guys on here who are quick to judge without any information and just wanted to chime in just to put the blame on someone with no validation or proof and even when I offer proof they are now unwilling to admit to their mistakes and judgment and continue to act like this is my fault as a buyer.

Ok. But, why are you dodging the question of giving specific measurements for each club at the pro shop, because if you were correct, would 100% implicate the claims. It makes you look bad, although you may just be misinformed or hell, could be correct. It looks bad that you went to all this effort to measure beside another wedge but not have them specifically measured. That is wild. 

[Long Shot]

2 hours ago, russian7 said:

SO NOW WHAT?? To the 100 people piling in on me here saying I must be incompetent and I must be wrong and a bad guy and blah blah...

 

I finally had time in my day to go to our local fitter that is the largest fitting centers in my area to speak to one of the pros and get a couple of stock wedges to match these two so we can compare side by side...

 

hmm low and behold set down side by side they measure exactly STOCK length.

 

PROOF of my claim as I said!

 

Unfortunately with kids in sports and traveling all weekend I didn't have the time in my day to immediately get to a retail store so despite everyone's opinions on the measuring this and that like everyone else stated the easiest way was to drop by grab some stock ones off the shelf and prove exactly what I said they arent +3/8" 

 

 

Def close to 3/8” over. 1st club has a red plug in the end of new one that you are using to compare. The red plug is the Arccos sensor plug that tells you how to claim your arccoss sensors. You are really trying to alter reality to fit your perception. Clearly longer than standard.
 

 You have some real issue dude. This and trying to explain away previous negative feedback, just continues to erode your complete lack of credibility. 

Edited November 25, 2024 by Long Shot

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

Def close to 3/8” over. 1st club has a red plug in the end of new one that you are using to compare. The red plug is the Arccos sensor plug that tells you how to claim your arccoss sensors. You are really try to alter reality to fit you perception. Clearly longer than standard.
 

 You have some real issue dude. This and trying to explain away previous negative feedback, just continues to erode you complete lack of credibility. 

Yup, and I just looked at the hosel in this photo.  Again the silver shafted clubs hosel is clearly higher than the black shafted club, making it appear taller, or longer in comparison. 
 

 

[circa3182]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

It also looks like they arent lined up right either, if you look at the groove frame (toeside) on each, the sellers is closer to the camera which would make it seems shorter than it is compared to the other. Some real funny business goin on here. Sorry to the seller for dealing with this. Ive seen all Ive needed to see. Good luck to each.

He seemingly did the same funny business when measuring with his tape measurer. From the looks he had one toe down and the other heel down instead of having both soled. 

[PNW]

Kudos to buyer. I have not seen so many creative albeit inaccurate ways to measure a club before on this forum. All while continuing to stand their ground through 180+ posts avoiding properly measuring them. 

 

The burden of proof is a REALLY low bar on buyer in this scenario to measure and show actual length. It's so quick and easy and it baffles me that they seem put out and blame others for the "effort" to drive to a 'big box store' and still not have the 'pros' measure them. 

 

All from someone who has had hundreds

 

On 11/24/2024 at 2:41 PM, russian7 said:

I sell on multiple platforms an done lots of business with 100s of people no issues

 

no THOUSANDs of club transaction all without having a proper club ruler...

 

1 hour ago, russian7 said:

Like I said from the beginning I have had thousands of positive transactions across various platforms and I am well known in the community here for my business dealings with golf items 

 

[snapier]

I think the the buyer and seller, as well as others chiming in, should turn this discussion of 3/8 inches over to their wives and girlfriends

 

 

[doctorgriffo]

Can we start a poll to see who is actually good enough at golf to be affected by half the width of your pinky on wedge shots? 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

12 minutes ago, snapier said:

I think the the buyer and seller, as well as others chiming in, should turn this discussion of 3/8 inches over to their wives and girlfriends

 

 

You first.  Let us know how it goes🤣

[snapier]

15 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

You first.  Let us know how it goes🤣

Not as expected

[miles2go]

Sounds like the buyer is not happy with the purchase. Why not just have them returned and refund the $ less shipping?  Can always re-sell.  Egos. 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, russian7 said:

I'm not doing anything further on this as I have gone way above and beyond with all of these people...

You agreed with my post where I said that what needed to happen was to have these put on a ruler to get actual numbers, and before and since you've seemingly done everything *but* that and now claim that you're done because you've "gone above and beyond". Forgive me, but that's just objectively and frustratingly silly. You had *one* single action that you needed to take that would have resolved this and you've done three completely different useless ones instead and act like we're the crazy ones. 

PING's measuring standard comes out 2/8" long compared to the USGA measuring standard, therefore +3/8" measured with the latter is only +1/8" with the former, and we can clearly see where 1/8"difference could exist between the clubs you just photographed at the store. This is ALSO consistent with your original photos, because if you ordered your clubs +1/2" as you claim from PING, but their standard adds 1/4" when compared to the USGA method, then your clubs are actually +3/4" compared to how the clubs you bought were built, so the negligible 1/8" difference you were expecting was actually, ironically, 3/8".  

You expected them to be almost the same, which isn't out of line, but ignorance of these standards left you open to this, which isn't the sellers fault. 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Valtiel

[miles2go]

2 minutes ago, miles2go said:

Sounds like the buyer is not happy with the purchase. Why not just have them returned and refund the $ less shipping?  Can always re-sell.  Egos. 

This is why I only sell on EBay. Golfwrx BST buyers are always difficult.  

[Long Shot]

20 minutes ago, miles2go said:

Sounds like the buyer is not happy with the purchase. Why not just have them returned and refund the $ less shipping?  Can always re-sell.  Egos. 

He was offered that, and someone also offered to purchase them at full price plus the additional shipping. That’s why @russian7 is looking quite suspect and the general consensus is that he is. 

[tungstenplug]

18 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

You agreed with my post where I said that what needed to happen was to have these put on a ruler to get actual numbers, and before and since you've seemingly done everything *but* that and now claim that you're done because you've "gone above and beyond". Forgive me, but that's just objectively and frustratingly silly. You had *one* single action that you needed to take that would have resolved this and you've done three completely different useless ones instead and act like we're the crazy ones. 

PING's measuring standard comes out 2/8" long compared to the USGA measuring standard, therefore +3/8" measured with the latter is only +1/8" with the former, and we can clearly see where 1/8"difference could exist between the clubs you just photographed at the store. This is ALSO consistent with your original photos, because if you ordered your clubs +1/2" as you claim from PING, but their standard adds 1/4" when compared to the USGA method, then your clubs are actually +3/4" compared to how the clubs you bought were built. 

You expected them to be almost the same, which isn't out of line, but ignorance of these standards left you open to this, which isn't the sellers fault. 

 

What you're saying is correct, clearly two measurement methods in play here. However, it can only be held against the Buyer if he knew ahead of time that the measurement method was changed from Ping method to USGA. The original listing for a Ping club said "3/8 long" and made no mention of deviating from Ping measurements, therefore you can only assume it was 3/8" longer than Ping standard length. From the direct messages posted, it was only after the buyer received the clubs and raised the length issue did the Seller note that the USGA method was used during aftermarket install

 

For anyone saying 3/8" doesn't matter, many people on here build to tighter tolerances than OEMs and everyone has the right to receive products as advertised. I don't have a vested interest in how this ends but I want to at least point out the discrepancy

[russian7]

3 minutes ago, tungstenplug said:

 

What you're saying is correct, clearly two measurement methods in play here. However, it can only be held against the Buyer if he knew ahead of time that the measurement method was changed from Ping method to USGA. The original listing for a Ping club said "3/8 long" and made no mention of deviating from Ping measurements, therefore you can only assume it was 3/8" longer than Ping standard length. From the direct messages posted, it was only after the buyer received the clubs and raised the length issue did the Seller note that the USGA method was used during aftermarket install

 

For anyone saying 3/8" doesn't matter, many people on here build to tighter tolerances than OEMs and everyone has the right to receive products as advertised. I don't have a vested interest in how this ends but I want to at least point out the discrepancy

Thank you, thats my point I absolutely expected +3/8" from Ping standard when they are at Ping Standard no one is really going to notice 1/8" and argue an waste time over that but more which it is for me is an issue and was misleading and not what I expected, nor was it listed as such or explained like that until I was blasted on here. Again I did my part an took it to a builders/proshop an took even more pics. You can clearly see them to standard regardless of the angle or any other things people are trying to point out, either way Im over it at this point and proved my story to be right period!

[Valtiel]

4 minutes ago, tungstenplug said:

 

What you're saying is correct, clearly two measurement methods in play here. However, it can only be held against the Buyer if he knew ahead of time that the measurement method was changed from Ping method to USGA. The original listing for a Ping club said "3/8 long" and made no mention of deviating from Ping measurements, therefore you can only assume it was 3/8" longer than Ping standard length. From the direct messages posted, it was only after the buyer received the clubs and raised the length issue did the Seller note that the USGA method was used during aftermarket install

 

For anyone saying 3/8" doesn't matter, many people on here build to tighter tolerances than OEMs and everyone has the right to receive products as advertised. I don't have a vested interest in how this ends but I want to at least point out the discrepancy

I definitely agree with the length mattering, personally that would bug the hell out of me too. You could make arguments for either party being responsible, but the problem is that these things are NOT well known generally. We take things to builders, they build to a set of standards, and the stupid industry can't all agree on one to use so this happens sometimes. When length issues matter to you, the onus is on you to educate yourself. When length issues matter to your *customer* because you're a business, the onus is on you to communicate that to said customer. The seller isn't a business, and he likely had every reason to assume things were fine here.

It then goes back to what I said originally....all that was needed given these variables was both clubs on a proper ruler and a discussion around what to do about the discrepancy. Not multiple useless cropped photos with tape measures next to supposedly known clubs, not photos of clubs stood next to each other in a store....just facts and solutions. We never got there because apparently histrionics is part of the PayPal return policy. 😅

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, tungstenplug said:

 

What you're saying is correct, clearly two measurement methods in play here. However, it can only be held against the Buyer if he knew ahead of time that the measurement method was changed from Ping method to USGA. The original listing for a Ping club said "3/8 long" and made no mention of deviating from Ping measurements, therefore you can only assume it was 3/8" longer than Ping standard length. From the direct messages posted, it was only after the buyer received the clubs and raised the length issue did the Seller note that the USGA method was used during aftermarket install

 

For anyone saying 3/8" doesn't matter, many people on here build to tighter tolerances than OEMs and everyone has the right to receive products as advertised. I don't have a vested interest in how this ends but I want to at least point out the discrepancy

Part of that responsibility to confirm the measuring method is on the buyer if there have specific measuring method.

if I’m a buyer purchasing a 58 s159 that’s claimed to be 3/8 inch over length over stock ping and I don’t inquire about how a club is measured I’m going to accept a club that measures out to be 35 and 3/8 on either the USGA method or Mitchell pin method since I did not validate which method was used.

[golffeen007]

3 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Thank you, thats my point I absolutely expected +3/8" from Ping standard when they are at Ping Standard no one is really going to notice 1/8" and argue an waste time over that but more which it is for me is an issue and was misleading and not what I expected, nor was it listed as such or explained like that until I was blasted on here. Again I did my part an took it to a builders/proshop an took even more pics. You can clearly see them to standard regardless of the angle or any other things people are trying to point out, either way Im over it at this point and proved my story to be right period!

Give it up already and send the clubs back to the seller for a refund. I’ll pay your shipping so the seller can be done with you.  

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, russian7 said:

Thank you, thats my point I absolutely expected +3/8" from Ping standard when they are at Ping Standard

Technically you expected them to be 1/8" shorter than your +1/2" build. It sounds like you didn't know what PING standard was vs. USGA standard so now you're retroactively trying to claim false advertising which is kinda....not really fair? Neither of you knew which standards were ultimately at play, but you had the expectation that it was one of them that you didn't know about *until* now. That's kinda on you, sorry. Especially since you started with the classic exaggeration tactic of claiming they were worse than they actually were (-1") and then backtracked to different measurements that were *still* measured with a tape measure which is unacceptable. Thats two strikes right out of the gate that were completely self inflicted. 

This is the same as what happened with the Copper P790 fiasco...someone freaks out because their expectations weren't met and they are (understandably!) disappointed, but then they start shooting from the hip and throwing out varying claims based on non-standard measurements or just flat-out hearsay and it poisons the well immediately because no one wants to deal with someone acting that way. This whole thing goes *completely* differently if you sent two messages, the first being an expression of concern based on your rough measurements, and the second being pictures with a ruler to prove what you're saying, which you still haven't done. Then the seller is faced with "damn, a ruler says they're shorter than what I thought, my builder might have made a mistake". Instead he's fending off multiple claims of varying accuracy that you're scattershotting at him, and this is NOT how to resolve disputes amicably. You're more concerned with ego and being right than solving the problem here. 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Valtiel

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Technically you expected them to be 1/8" shorter than your +1/2" build. It sounds like you didn't know what PING standard was vs. USGA standard so now you're retroactively trying to claim false advertising which is kinda....not really fair? Neither of you knew which standards were ultimately at play, but you had the expectation that it was one of them that you didn't know about *until* now. That's kinda on you, sorry. Especially since you started with the classic exaggeration tactic of claiming they were worse than they actually were (-1") and then backtracked to different measurements that were *still* measured with a ruler which is unacceptable. Thats two strikes right out of the gate that were completely self inflicted. 

This is the same as what happened with the Copper P790 fiasco...someone freaks out because their expectations weren't met and they are (understandably!) disappointed, but then they start shooting from the hip and throwing out varying claims based on non-standard measurements or just flat-out hearsay and it poisons the well immediately because no one wants to deal with someone acting that way. This whole thing goes *completely* differently if you sent two messages, the first being an expression of concern based on your rough measurements, and the second being pictures with a ruler to prove what you're saying, which you still haven't done. Then the seller is faced with "damn, a ruler says they're shorter than what I thought, my builder might have made a mistake". Instead he's fending off multiple claims of varying accuracy that you're scattershotting at him, and this is NOT how to resolve disputes amicably. You're more concerned with ego and being right than solving the problem here. 

Well said.

 

I would add disingenuous at minimum and more than likely manipulative when trying to provide visual proof to validate his claims. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

3 hours ago, russian7 said:

Exactly that's all I'm saying but all of these guys can't let it go because they were bashing me for so long despite me making additional purchases coming out of pocket traveling to places to get a picture and doing all this stuff they still want to continue to pile in on me despite the facts when I'm not in the wrong and I was the buyer so again I have no problem removing my case but the seller has done nothing but talk bad about about me and offer nothing in a solution except for publicly to appear he is a good guy so I think in most situations people are going to be a little frustrated and not as willing to cooperate after they have proved themselves right time and time again and everyone refusing to accept it. Like I said from the beginning I have had thousands of positive transactions across various platforms and I am well known in the community here for my business dealings with golf items so I was never once concerned about my reputation other than a bunch of guys on here who are quick to judge without any information and just wanted to chime in just to put the blame on someone with no validation or proof and even when I offer proof they are now unwilling to admit to their mistakes and judgment and continue to act like this is my fault as a buyer.

Why haven’t you provided actual side by side measurements on a measuring decide? Oh that’s right you wasted all your time trying to get each wedges to stand side by side and proceed to say you are right all along. 

[Schnee]

Guys, I think you're all being unreasonable.... He bought extensions and grips! He's gone above and beyond here! 😂 /Sarcasm

The fact that buyer won't get them on a ruler is so tiresome. Multiple solutions offered by members including offering to pay for shipping or buying them at his cost.

Buyer wants to die on this hill. Unfortunately for him, his reputation with hundreds thousands of buyers also died as a result of his overreacting/histrionics. A symptom of the amazon/online shopping free return/ instant gratification culture coming back to bite us. 

[gentles]

My favourite part is the repeated "I am done with this thread" comments, but then chiming in anytime there is a response that could be interpreted as remotely on his side of the argument 

 

OP - at this stage what do you want the seller to do? To send you $30 for the extensions and grips you've already paid for becuase his club builder used the USGA standard for measuring clubs? 

[PJE]

Deleted

Edited November 26, 2024 by PJE

[10undrbogey]

Buyer is clearly & intentionally manipulating the clubs standing side by side to try to prove he is right while standing within a few feet of an approved club measuring device that would prove him wrong so he won’t measure the clubs with it.

 

The PayPal claim submitted the buyer is fraudulent……

[swwpp5]

@russian7 here’s my BAFO: 

 

In the following order:

 

1. You drop the PayPal claim

2. I send you $15. I’ll tell myself I bought you a cocktail 🥃 and you can tell yourself I helped pay for the extensions. 

3. You agree to get the negative feedback changed to neutral 

4. We agree to disagree and go our separate ways 

[russian7]

12 minutes ago, swwpp5 said:

@russian7 here’s my BAFO: 

 

In the following order:

 

1. You drop the PayPal claim

2. I send you $15. I’ll tell myself I bought you a cocktail 🥃 and you can tell yourself I helped pay for the extensions. 

3. You agree to get the negative feedback changed to neutral 

4. We agree to disagree and go our separate ways 

Sounds like a plan sir I like it. Appreciate the help

[Nixhex524]

Still not one picture of these laying on a bench ruler or anything remotely close to getting us a realistic measurement.  What a wasted trip to the shop.

 

The picture from earlier where the wedges are standing upright next to each other is clearly manipulated.  You can see the faces don't line up making one appear shorter than it is.  

 

@swwpp5 still offering a fair deal to help out speaks to his character here.  The negative feedback should be erased.

[russian7]

1 minute ago, russian7 said:

Sounds like a plan sir I like it. Appreciate the help

Step 1 complete:

 

[russian7]

2 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Step 1 complete:

 

I also messaged mods to change my feedback to neutral