Deep Faced Woods (is it a mental thing?)

[naj959]

I've had an epiphany of late that I hit deep faced clubs much better than their shallower counterparts. I'm wondering if it's swing related or merely a mental thing? For giggles I played a round Monday with an old R9 460 that I forgot I had. Of course I hit almost every ball down the center stripe. I also hit balls with my Tour Edge and the dispersion and strike pattern was all over the place. Obviously shaft plays a role but the TE is about 3/4 of an inch shorter. I also have a PRGR RS that has a deep face and it's also way more consistent then other drivers I've played. I hit my XCG6 3 wood higher off the deck than most shallow clubs. Struggled mightily with the new Ping fairway woods. Even hybrids tend to be better for me if they have a taller face. So is this all in my head or is there something too this? For reference I tend to be a digger with my irons and a mid spin player. I'm thinking AOA plays a role.

[bcflyguy1]

I'm pretty much the same; seeing a deep face and the appearance of more loft that comes with that on driver and fairway woods just frees me up to make a better golf swing.

Looking at a shallow fairway wood does just the opposite; the intrusive "you're about to roof the crap out of this thing" thoughts are a show-stopper.

We've all got our quirks like this. Play what works best; doesn't matter why. 

[naj959]

7 minutes ago, bcflyguy1 said:

I'm pretty much the same; seeing a deep face and the appearance of more loft that comes with that on driver and fairway woods just frees me up to make a better golf swing.

Looking at a shallow fairway wood does just the opposite; the intrusive "you're about to roof the crap out of this thing" thoughts are a show-stopper.

We've all got our quirks like this. Play what works best; doesn't matter why. 

My brain says "ummm you don't got enough face down there how are you going to hit the ball?" 😅

[MFBach]

3 hours ago, naj959 said:

I've had an epiphany of late that I hit deep faced clubs much better than their shallower counterparts. I'm wondering if it's swing related or merely a mental thing?

 

3 hours ago, naj959 said:

So is this all in my head or is there something too this? For reference I tend to be a digger with my irons and a mid spin player. I'm thinking AOA plays a role.

A deeper/taller face on a driver (or any club for that matter) is usually going to contribute to a higher COG and promote lower launch and spin than its shallower face counterpart. 
 

A deep face would also tend to be more forgiving on high/low misses, but less resistant to twisting/side spin on off center strikes. 
 

If you’re prone to vertical rather than horizontal misses on the club face, or if you generally launch the ball high with excessive spin, a club with a deeper face can be a better fit for your swing and game. 
 

There is obviously a lot more to it than that, but there are definitely physical properties associated with club head design that could contribute to your personal preferences, even without a full understanding of why/how that design provides better results for you.
 

Results influence confidence as well, so it’s likely a combination of the performance benefits and the confidence to make a better swing with a club that makes you feel comfortable. 

[GolfTurkey]

Wouldn't a higher CG promote lower launch with higher spin?

[MFBach]

2 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

Wouldn't a higher CG promote lower launch with higher spin?

The closer the club‘s CG aligns with the ball’s COG, the less impact it has on launch and spin. Pushing weight lower and further back in the club head brings down the club’s CG. When the club’s CG is moved lower, it’s going to promote more dynamic loft at impact, which would typically produce a higher launch angle and higher spin rate. 
 

Ultimately, it’s less about the club’s CG at setup and more about where that club’s CG is delivered in relation to the ball. It’s why there are so many different options to choose from now… every player delivers the club differently. Some prefer a shallow face with lower CG and vice versa.
 

Loft is always going to be the primary determining factor in regards to launch/spin, but the club’s CG can affect the amount of loft delivered when we strike the ball. 
 

All other things being equal…

 

Higher CG - lower launch, less spin (promotes less dynamic loft)

 

Lower CG - higher launch, more spin

(promotes more dynamic loft) 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

3 hours ago, MFBach said:

...A deeper/taller face on a driver (or any club for that matter) is usually going to contribute to a higher COG and promote lower launch and spin than its shallower face counterpart. 
 

A deep face would also tend to be more forgiving on high/low misses, but less resistant to twisting/side spin on off center strikes. 
 

If you’re prone to vertical rather than horizontal misses on the club face, or if you generally launch the ball high with excessive spin, a club with a deeper face can be a better fit for your swing and game...

Never thought of it that way, but I am/was definitely in the camp you describe, and far, far prefer taller FWs and Hybrids like Callaway/Titleist to the Ping offerings.  Loved the Rogue ST line---my cold dead hands, meet the TD 3 wood---and should've just bought the TD driver.  (Sigh.  Need to try more of the AI stuff, though definitely not with the Denali)

 

Weighting is also sometimes noticeable to me.  The Pings's stock feel, don't "feel right."  Despite their irons being very agreeable to me. 

 

Shrug.  More for you guys.

[GolfTurkey]

35 minutes ago, MFBach said:

The closer the club‘s CG aligns with the ball’s COG, the less impact it has on launch and spin. Pushing weight lower and further back in the club head brings down the club’s CG. When the club’s CG is moved lower, it’s going to promote more dynamic loft at impact, which would typically produce a higher launch angle and higher spin rate. 
 

Ultimately, it’s less about the club’s CG at setup and more about where that club’s CG is delivered in relation to the ball. It’s why there are so many different options to choose from now… every player delivers the club differently. Some prefer a shallow face with lower CG and vice versa.
 

Loft is always going to be the primary determining factor in regards to launch/spin, but the club’s CG can affect the amount of loft delivered when we strike the ball. 
 

All other things being equal…

 

Higher CG - lower launch, less spin (promotes less dynamic loft)

 

Lower CG - higher launch, more spin

(promotes more dynamic loft) 

 

OK, we're talking about two different things that are both correct IMO.

 

You are saying that the lower/rear CG club influences delivery to be different to present more dynamic loft which results in increased launch and spin.

 

I was talking about the same delivery resulting in lower launch, higher spin with the higher CG head.

[naj959]

6 hours ago, MFBach said:

 

A deeper/taller face on a driver (or any club for that matter) is usually going to contribute to a higher COG and promote lower launch and spin than its shallower face counterpart. 
 

A deep face would also tend to be more forgiving on high/low misses, but less resistant to twisting/side spin on off center strikes. 
 

If you’re prone to vertical rather than horizontal misses on the club face, or if you generally launch the ball high with excessive spin, a club with a deeper face can be a better fit for your swing and game. 
 

There is obviously a lot more to it than that, but there are definitely physical properties associated with club head design that could contribute to your personal preferences, even without a full understanding of why/how that design provides better results for you.
 

Results influence confidence as well, so it’s likely a combination of the performance benefits and the confidence to make a better swing with a club that makes you feel comfortable. 

Yes, I am aware of the higher CG creating lower spin and launch. This is what perplexes me. I'm not a particularly fast swinger. Slow by wrx standards at 104 mph or lower. Don't hit a super high ball either apex is probably between 80 and 90 feet. Perhaps the higher CG causes me to get better impact alignments to get the clubs CG under the balls. I don't know. I thought it was kind of interesting though. 

[phizzy30]

AI Smoke TD, Qi10 tour and tour issue peanut proto R11 hybrid here.  All are deeper face and work for me.  I've had shallow face clubs in the past and it was hit or miss, mostly miss, mind you.  Maybe it's a mental, I don't care at this point but I'm strictly sticking with deeper face clubs.  

[cardoustie]

I’m halfway with you

 

much prefer deeper faced drivers but prefer shallow fairways and hybrids

[MFBach]

11 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

OK, we're talking about two different things that are both correct IMO.

 

You are saying that the lower/rear CG club influences delivery to be different to present more dynamic loft which results in increased launch and spin.

 

I was talking about the same delivery resulting in lower launch, higher spin with the higher CG head.

Yeah, it was late and I probably didn’t do the best job explaining my thoughts. I was lumping actual CG and VCG into the same thought, which is a bit confusing. 
 

I think you’re talking about actual CG in relation to gear effect, in which case you’re right. I’ve said it plenty of times here, but I’m definitely not a physicist. To the best of my understanding (and disregarding some other important factors like strike location), a lower CG will produce a gear effect that reduces spin while a higher CG will produce the opposite.