Help understanding my flat swing plane

[MannJ]

I’m 5’ 7” and my wing span is 70”. My swing is fairly flat and naturally a bit laid off, I think partly because of the shaft plane at address, and just my general build.

What this seems to do is point the handle of the club out past the golf ball on my back swing, and at the beginning of my downswing. The club being more horizontal like this causes me to swing out towards the golf ball rather than underneath my body. 
I have tried to correct this plane, taking the club back steeper and to a position higher above my shoulders, but my freaky monkey arms seem to easily get stuck behind when I do that. 
Two questions:

A) What effect does a flatter upper body motion have on the lower body (core, hips, legs)?

B) Should I try to get the swing plane more upright? 
I ask the second question because I am not sure I am actually in an inefficient position. Given my particular build vs club length ( which are 1/2” short 2 degree flat) it may be my arms are in correct position relative to my shoulder plane. 

 

 

[Dabetic]

Layman’s view/perspective, it’s really not bad. Downswing arms are late

[ColoradoMike]

Curious what your miss is? I tend to do the same thing and my miss is a push/block

[GoGoErky]

It’s all the things pointed out in all your other posts.

 

no pressure shift, no left side bend, no vertical wrist hinge.

 

Your setup doesn’t help especially hands being that low with the butt if the club well below the waist

[Rbsiedsc]

not a coach but what I notice among what others have said.  

Your wrists don’t hinge and in fact you flat load. 
 

here your club head should be starting to be above your hands. 

 

and here your shaft and lead arm should be closer to a right angle. You are very passive in your arms  

 

this is where you float load. You do kind of make it work by bringing your arms in but that will rob you of speed and you spin out. Your face is super shut at the top and you really have to manipulate it to get back to the ball  

[iacas]

You use your arms for too much of the "around" and not enough of the up. The camera is well behind you, and yet, the clubhead almost passes through your hands - it's already well "under" or "rolled" or "around" too much. At the top, the right elbow is a little too far behind you.

 

Arms = up/down, body = around. You're using your arms to move the club around you too much.

[MannJ]

 

 

Was hoping to get some more input on this, my laid off flat swing. 
I’ve been working on pressure shift and implementing a trigger which I think helps. I try to c0ck my wrist firmly and upwards and halfway back the butt end still points considerably past the ball. 
My arms hang low and so the incline of the club shaft is very flat at setup. I don’t know if I should even be trying to fix this. I think it is creating low launch angles but not sure. Also, I am trying to to eliminate unnecessary compensations in my swing. 
Appreciate any feedback. Thanks 

[TheDeanAbides]

What do you think you’d need to do differently to get your wrists cocked so that the club and your arms form a 90* angle at left arm parallel? 

[MannJ]

After reading your question I tried doing nothing but cocking my wrist up. It looks like I’m still running off so I took a face on and I think the late c0ck is a camera angle thing to some degree because I the face on they appear to be getting pretty close to 90, but still flat/laid off/something. 
If I have to make a big manipulation to get a more upright plane, I am wondering if that is saving me anything considering the reason I am wanting to be more upright is to be more efficient 

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

8 minutes ago, MannJ said:

After reading your question I tried doing nothing but cocking my wrist up. It looks like I’m still running off so I took a face on and I think the late c0ck is a camera angle thing to some degree because I the face on they appear to be getting pretty close to 90, but still flat/laid off/something. 
If I have to make a big manipulation to get a more upright plane, I am wondering if that is saving me anything considering the reason I am wanting to be more upright is to be more efficient 

 

 

 

Are you pushing and/or pulling with either of your hands when you try to set your wrists. 

[unskinnybop99]

I'm flat at the top. I have used this drill in the past.

 

 

[MannJ]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Are you pushing and/or pulling with either of your hands when you try to set your wrists. 

I try to use both hands/wrists. 
So with the trail wrist it is a pull I guess, up/back, and with the lead hand a side wards motion. 
Thats the best I can explain it I think. 
I vaguely know how the wrist aren’t supposed to move. If my lead wrist sets upwards it would be cupped at the top, which would get my clubface less shut but I don’t want to cup the lead wrist, correct?

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, MannJ said:

I try to use both hands/wrists. 
So with the trail wrist it is a pull I guess, up/back, and with the lead hand a side wards motion. 
Thats the best I can explain it I think. 
I vaguely know how the wrist aren’t supposed to move. If my lead wrist sets upwards it would be cupped at the top, which would get my clubface less shut but I don’t want to cup the lead wrist, correct?

Your lead wrist is supposed to set upward and well a some sideways.

 

you roll your forearms, and fold your right wrist back. This leads to flat swing.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oJAoGDg2AA

[TheDeanAbides]

This is how the wrists are supposed to move. It's a blending of these two motions with a small amount of forearm roll. You'd have to feel like you have none. 

 

 

[MannJ]

10 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

This is how the wrists are supposed to move. It's a blending of these two motions with a small amount of forearm roll. You'd have to feel like you have none. 

 

I was freaking out a second until I realized you are left handed. 
This actually helped quite a bit. I think my trail hand is doing something incorrectly, maybe because it is too strongly positioned. 
To be continued….

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, MannJ said:

I was freaking out a second until I realized you are left handed. 
This actually helped quite a bit. I think my trail hand is doing something incorrectly, maybe because it is too strongly positioned. 
To be continued….

Yes it’s bending backwards too much.

[MannJ]

[MannJ]

Just now, MannJ said:

I’m getting flatter late in the backswing 

[MannJ]

7 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Yes it’s bending backwards too much.

So I should limit the hinge of my trail wrist?

[GoGoErky]

3 minutes ago, MannJ said:

So I should limit the hinge of my trail wrist?

Yes. There’s a blend of the right wrist ext extending and the left wrist hinging 

 

Just the the two videos recently posted

[TheDeanAbides]

6 hours ago, MannJ said:

I was freaking out a second until I realized you are left handed. 
This actually helped quite a bit. I think my trail hand is doing something incorrectly, maybe because it is too strongly positioned. 
To be continued….

I'm not left handed. Well, I am left handed, but I play righty. 

Edited February 20 by TheDeanAbides

[iacas]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I'm not left handed. Well, I am left handed, but I play righty. 

 

The video is flipped/mirrored because you used your FaceTime camera. The writing on the poster is backward, too, of course.

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, iacas said:

 

The video is flipped/mirrored because you used your FaceTime camera. The writing on the poster is backward, too, of course.

I'm so used to seeing that camera that I didn't even notice that it's flipped. I think my brain just flips it back to the correct way around. 

[iacas]

To the main point, @MannJ… I'll say two things having done a little more than skimming without reaching the point of seriously reading everything:

• Folding your right wrist back doesn't help. It sends the club "around" more than it sends it up.
• You could also go from the picture on the right to a steep plane… just by not rotating your forearms (from your perspective) clockwise so much that early in the backswing. From the position below, you could just… rotate them (from your POV) counter-clockwise, and it'd be steeper. So, rotate the forearms less.

 

Also:

 

On 11/28/2024 at 12:42 PM, GoGoErky said:

It’s all the things pointed out in all your other posts.

 

no pressure shift, no left side bend, no vertical wrist hinge.

 

Your setup doesn’t help especially hands being that low with the butt if the club well below the waist

[Jeselnik]

You have a couple blind spots.  You ever hear that story about Hogan giving Couples advice?  Hogan demonstrated what arms do and proceeded to demonstrate a vertical log splitting motion.  Couples got flustered and walked back to his people and said, “what the #@€& does that mean?”  You might should reduce arm connection and overall tension, learn how to move right arm.  When I say learn I mean you teach you until you know, different ideas produce different results.  Wrists do nothing, but be aware of your alignments.  You have a lot of potential, too bad you don’t have an old local pro around, you would progress faster.

 

JNIK

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Jeselnik said:

You have a couple blind spots.  You ever hear that story about Hogan giving Couples advice?  Hogan demonstrated what arms do and proceeded to demonstrate a vertical log splitting motion.  Couples got flustered and walked back to his people and said, “what the #@€& does that mean?”  You might should reduce arm connection and overall tension, learn how to move right arm.  When I say learn I mean you teach you until you know, different ideas produce different results.  Wrists do nothing, but be aware of your alignments.  You have a lot of potential, too bad you don’t have an old local pro around, you would progress faster.

 

JNIK

What do you mean by the wrists do nothing?

Edited February 20 by GoGoErky

[KMeloney]

On 2/18/2025 at 7:33 PM, MannJ said:

 If my lead wrist sets upwards it would be cupped at the top, which would get my clubface less shut but I don’t want to cup the lead wrist, correct?

You have a strong grip, and having cup in the lead wrist is an appropriate match-up for a strong grip (especially if you tend to hook the ball).

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, KMeloney said:

You have a strong grip, and having cup in the lead wrist is an appropriate match-up for a strong grip (especially if you tend to hook the ball).

That's true, but only if there are pivot matchups too. Virtually everyone flattens the left wrist at impact, so there has to be a compensation. 

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

That's true, but only if there are pivot matchups too. Virtually everyone flattens the left wrist at impact, so there has to be a compensation. 

 

There's plenty of time to do it in the downswing.

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

There's plenty of time to do it in the downswing.

I don't disagree. I meant during the downswing.