Ray Ray's Swing Thread

[KMeloney]

I agree that your right hand looks off. I think it's that your thumb is too far on the other side of the grip, leaving a space between up to the base of your thumb and forefinger.

 

And yes, you're going super-narrow again on the downswing and driving your right elbow into your side. 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

That post was mostly an attempt at humor, with my "tee shot". More embarrassing than a total whiff, imo.

 

But more seriously, I thought I was doing better with my posture. The camera was a little skewed, so I corrected that, and here's what it looked like on another swing (that went better).

 

Is this still wrong? I thought hip over ankle was what I was going for, with forward ankle flex. 

 

With my right hand, I thought I had it in a fairly normal strong right hand grip.

 

 

I definitely wasn't trying to do the weird arm drop move. I was actually trying to lower my arms like in this AMG video:

 

 

The "trick shot" happened quite a few swings after the one above, so it obviously got a bit misshapen.

 

 

That angle the hip,knee, ankle are better

 

As for the shallowing move you definitely aren’t doin what amg shows. 
 

Are you making any swings with a 7,8 or 9i or is all your practice with driver?

 

are you doing any drills? If so what drills and at what speed?

 

 

[RayPlan]

56 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

That angle the hip,knee, ankle are better

 

As for the shallowing move you definitely aren’t doin what amg shows. 
 

Are you making any swings with a 7,8 or 9i or is all your practice with driver?

 

are you doing any drills? If so what drills and at what speed?

 

 

My biggest flaw may be my impatience.

 

I hit a 5i today before hitting driver.

 

No drills, besides trying to get the lowering motion inside without a club. Seems to get out of whack when I'm actually in the real position, rather than standing straight up. Just like they warned.

 

I've also been trying to ingrain the proper hip/pelvis movement indoors.

 

I don't really have any go-to drills at the moment, especially since I'm working on new things. Obviously need to work on that shallowing move more. There was a period of time where I would do the L to L drill that Mike Malaska shows. That seemed to help, but I just kind of lost interest, in favor of taking full swings, which I recognize is bad. I need to find good drills to be consistent with. 

Edited December 2, 2024 by RayPlan

[NosajNeelik]

Try and keep your right arm straight throughout the swing 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

My biggest flaw may be my impatience.

I knew this just from your posts of updated swings and not much changing.

 

You’re trying to go straight to z from a.

 

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

No drills, besides trying to get the lowering motion inside without a club. Seems to get out of whack when I'm actually in the real position, rather than standing straight up. Just like they warned.

Things why nothing is changing nor will it. You have to retrain your movement patterns. You can’t do that at full speed and definitely not with a driver, nor without hitting a ball while doing drills.

 

You need to grab a high lofted club pw,9i,8i and do drills with slower motion then some regular swings trying to feel what you did in the drill in the actual swing.

 

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

I don't really have any go-to drills at the moment, especially since I'm working on new things. Obviously need to work on that shallowing move more. There was a period of time where I would do the L to L drill that Mike Malaska shows. That seemed to help, but I just kind of lost interest, in favor of taking full swings, which I recognize is bad. I need to find good drills to be consistent with. 

You need to work on a lot more than the shallowing drill. You need to focus on grip, alignment and posture. If these aren’t right then you’re going to have issues with the rest of the swing. You then need to work on takeaway and backswing. You need to get these in a good spot before working on the transition from a bad position at the top 

 

I would get the free grip and setup video from rebellion golf.

https://video.rebelliongolf.com/orders/customer_info?o=38649

 

These two videos from AMG on grip

 

this video from AMG on the takeaway 

andd this one from AMG on the backswing.

 

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

My biggest flaw may be my impatience.

 

I hit a 5i today before hitting driver.

 

 

No drills, besides trying to get the lowering motion inside without a club. Seems to get out of whack when I'm actually in the real position, rather than standing straight up. Just like they warned.

 

I've also been trying to ingrain the proper hip/pelvis movement indoors.

 

I don't really have any go-to drills at the moment, especially since I'm working on new things. Obviously need to work on that shallowing move more. There was a period of time where I would do the L to L drill that Mike Malaska shows. That seemed to help, but I just kind of lost interest, in favor of taking full swings, which I recognize is bad. I need to find good drills to be consistent with. 

 

 

IMO if anyone needs this drill, I would think it would be you. From the top try throwing the clubhead to 7/8 o clock based the picture below, feel the clubhead is even getting almost to the ground in the 7/8 direction.. Keep in mind you are throwing the clubhead in that direction, not the shaft, hands or elbow. Just focus on the clubhead. Quit trying to drive that elbow down and hold onto lag or any of that stuff. 

 

Chris Como has a similar drill that Tevor Immelman uses, throwing the ax into the ground in that 7/8 o clock direction. Should be on golfpass I believe. 

 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

 

IMO if anyone needs this drill, I would think it would be you. From the top try throwing the clubhead to 7/8 o clock based the picture below, feel the clubhead is even getting almost to the ground in the 7/8 direction.. Keep in mind you are throwing the clubhead in that direction, not the shaft, hands or elbow. Just focus on the clubhead. Quit trying to drive that elbow down and hold onto lag or any of that stuff. 

 

Chris Como has a similar drill that Tevor Immelman uses, throwing the ax into the ground in that 7/8 o clock direction. Should be on golfpass I believe. 

 

But he also says if your backswing doesn’t look like what his example of the no turn part to not move onto cast a.

 

the op doesn’t March the example backswing 

[MK7Golf21]

20 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

But he also says if your backswing doesn’t look like what his example of the no turn part to not move onto cast a.

 

the op doesn’t March the example backswing 

Setup looked a bit crazy, more so earlier. What do you think he needs to fix in the takeaway? Im just glad he doesn’t whip the club inside and takes it back on a decent plane in that iron swing. Most people struggle with that all their golfing lives. 

[RayPlan]

9 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

I knew this just from your posts of updated swings and not much changing.

 

You’re trying to go straight to z from a.

 

Things why nothing is changing nor will it. You have to retrain your movement patterns. You can’t do that at full speed and definitely not with a driver, nor without hitting a ball while doing drills.

 

You need to grab a high lofted club pw,9i,8i and do drills with slower motion then some regular swings trying to feel what you did in the drill in the actual swing.

 

You need to work on a lot more than the shallowing drill. You need to focus on grip, alignment and posture. If these aren’t right then you’re going to have issues with the rest of the swing. You then need to work on takeaway and backswing. You need to get these in a good spot before working on the transition from a bad position at the top 

 

I would get the free grip and setup video from rebellion golf.

https://video.rebelliongolf.com/orders/customer_info?o=38649

 

These two videos from AMG on grip

 

this video from AMG on the takeaway 

andd this one from AMG on the backswing.

 

Got the Rebellion Golf free setup video, also watched the AMG grip videos, took notes. I had what seemed like an irreparable swing flaw for years that I already fixed in the last year, and it came down to having the grip too much in the palm. So many things improved after that change, so I thought I'd fixed my grip. That fix was thanks to AMG, but I should have been more attentive to the other grip items. 

 

Will focus on that, along the backswing video. 

[GoGoErky]

11 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

Setup looked a bit crazy, more so earlier. What do you think he needs to fix in the takeaway? Im just glad he doesn’t whip the club inside and takes it back on a decent plane in that iron swing. Most people struggle with that all their golfing lives. 

He could have better wrist set and maybe get the hands working in a bit

[KMeloney]

4 hours ago, RayPlan said:

Got the Rebellion Golf free setup video, also watched the AMG grip videos, took notes. I had what seemed like an irreparable swing flaw for years that I already fixed in the last year, and it came down to having the grip too much in the palm. So many things improved after that change, so I thought I'd fixed my grip. That fix was thanks to AMG, but I should have been more attentive to the other grip items. 

If you pause your latest video @ shaft at or prior to parallel on the backswing, you can see that your right hand grip is no bueno. That right thumb placement is wrong (and likely a byproduct of the whole hand being wrong) -- and if the grip isn't already too much in the palm, then that gap you've created is definitely going to allow the grip to slide into the gap and end up more in the palm. You're just not going to be able to hinge your wrist(s) effectively with that grip IMO.

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

He could have better wrist set and maybe get the hands working in a bit

 

not too bad imo, there is a range to work in. Adam Scott was never that much of an inside hands guy either and we all look up to his swing. 

 

[GoGoErky]

51 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

not too bad imo, there is a range to work in. Adam Scott was never that much of an inside hands guy either and we all look up to his swing. 

 

Yet he ends up getting long at the top because his wrists let the club fall. Not sure if it’s because of the move he’s trying to make or the how he sets the wrists. But either way his move at the top isn’t helping so getting takeaway and backswing squared away is going to help him work on the shallowing move

[MK7Golf21]

3 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Yet he ends up getting long at the top because his wrists let the club fall. Not sure if it’s because of the move he’s trying to make or the how he sets the wrists. But either way his move at the top isn’t helping so getting takeaway and backswing squared away is going to help him work on the shallowing move

 

Yea, he turns his body a ton by the time he gets to the top, head is almost facing the camera so that is def adding to making his swing long. I wasn't sure if it was the transition move he's trying to make either but the idea of casting the clubhead instead of it being narrow against his back on the downswing might help. 

[RayPlan]

12 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Yet he ends up getting long at the top because his wrists let the club fall. Not sure if it’s because of the move he’s trying to make or the how he sets the wrists. But either way his move at the top isn’t helping so getting takeaway and backswing squared away is going to help him work on the shallowing move

I think part of the reason I started doing that at the top is because I'd always been told that I was too quick and jerky in my transition, so my response was to make it more floaty and loose at the top. Not the right move, as I'm learning. 

 

I might benefit from taking 3/4“ swings.

Edited December 3, 2024 by RayPlan

[glk]

22 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

I think part of the reason I started doing that at the top is because I'd always been told that I was too quick and jerky in my transition, so my response was to make it more floaty and loose at the top. Not the right move, as I'm learning. 

This is about lastest 5i swing.   You spin.   And have little time spent in transition.    Pulling the arms down.   Pretty out of sequence.   Have a bit of a stuck right elbow but have to completely straighten right arm before impact due to poor sequencing.  Your body is not prepared well so you end up pulling with the arms which steepens the club and trying to shift to the left leg at the same time - you straighten right arm to shallow and then pull hard left.

 

Your left heel does raise a bit at the end of the backswing so you might be unweighting  but your downswing happens so fast you have no time to shift - left heel plants just as or slightly after arms start down - left heel should plant before the backswing end or just before it - really need to see a face on - to see the overall motion better.   Not clear to see that you shift before taking the club away, left heel raising a bit say you might be pushing with the right foot but likely not enough - and clearly no shift before/at the top.    This spin back, spin down with quick transtion is cause of poor sequencing.

 

This.    Shifts right and pushes hard, turns and shifts back left by the top (the push is not much and some can fell this as a fall), then it's all rotation.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDB_JuMIrsc/?hl=en

 

Some drills

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClKYVsyAH4R/?hl=en

 

 

Edited December 3, 2024 by glk

[RayPlan]

50 minutes ago, glk said:

This is about lastest 5i swing.   You spin.   And have little time spent in transition.    Pulling the arms down.   Pretty out of sequence.   Have a bit of a stuck right elbow but have to completely straighten right arm before impact due to poor sequencing.  Your body is not prepared well so you end up pulling with the arms which steepens the club and trying to shift to the left leg at the same time - you straighten right arm to shallow and then pull hard left.

 

Your left heel does raise a bit at the end of the backswing so you might be unweighting  but your downswing happens so fast you have no time to shift - left heel plants just as or slightly after arms start down - left heel should plant before the backswing end or just before it - really need to see a face on - to see the overall motion better.   Not clear to see that you shift before taking the club away, left heel raising a bit say you might be pushing with the right foot but likely not enough - and clearly no shift before/at the top.    This spin back, spin down with quick transtion is cause of poor sequencing.

 

This.    Shifts right and pushes hard, turns and shifts back left by the top (the push is not much and some can fell this as a fall), then it's all rotation.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDB_JuMIrsc/?hl=en

 

Some drills

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClKYVsyAH4R/?hl=en

 

 

 

Here's a face-on from about 6 months ago. I don't think my shifting has changed much (if at all) in that time. 

 

I didn't realize I needed to shift my weight right before moving the club back. I could see that making it easier to shift back to the left, just from a rhythm/tempo standpoint.

[glk]

24 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Here's a face-on from about 6 months ago. I don't think my shifting has changed much (if at all) in that time. 

I didn't realize I needed to shift my weight right before moving the club back. I could see that making it easier to shift back to the left, just from a rhythm/tempo standpoint.

Confirms what I thought.   Note on grip - your right hand is weaker than your left - match them up - palms facing each other.   I would prefer a bit weaker left hand, and bit stronger right.

 

Even though not a face on (and unusual for Dr Kwon to do a session in his simulator) has plenty of gold in the instruction.   Most pro that see him quickly adapt the motion - this one shows a significant gain.

 

A more typical session for a pro - has lots of amateurs sessions on his youtube also - they tend to take longer and more instruction but haven't seen a single person not pick up the motion - up to them then to continue to work it.

 

Edited December 3, 2024 by glk

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

I think part of the reason I started doing that at the top is because I'd always been told that I was too quick and jerky in my transition, so my response was to make it more floaty and loose at the top. Not the right move, as I'm learning. 

 

I might benefit from taking 3/4“ swings.

Quick and jerky are signs of base takeaway and backswing and hips not rotating properly, which we see in your on course swings. Chasing a fix to a symptom rather than fixing the cause.

 

yes 3/4 swings and slow motion swings are going to benefit you a lot.

 

It takes time to learn a new movement pattern which is what you have to do. That’s going to take weeks, months, if not longer even just doing slower motion swings and drills. It will not happen with full swings at full speed

 

 

[RayPlan]

I've been working on my grip and setup, and studying up on Dr. Kwon's methods. 

 

The shift-turn concept is intuitive, though I initially found myself swaying excessively and not turning much. I hit only 7i for this practice session, and I found that I was hitting a lot of them thin. I tried to take 3/4 swings more than full swings. Feels like a good step in the right direction, overall.

 

Face-on:

 

 

 

 

 

Down the line:

 Example of hitting it thin above.

 

 

 

This second one went higher and seemed like better contact, but my right wrist was straight at the top. Trying to work on the pressure shift made me forget about other things. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2024 by RayPlan

[GoGoErky]

You're not shifting you’re swaying. The shift is a very small move. Your have too much mass going to trail side and then to lead side. 
 

Your left hand grip has the v point towards your face. It should be pointed to right ear or between right ear and right shoulder. Its probably not in your hand properly. See tigers grip

 

your still very much upright in your posture.

 

between your desire to want to get narrow in the downswing and your say you dip the right shoulder. This will lead to the contact you see

 

[RayPlan]

2 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

You're not shifting you’re swaying. The shift is a very small move. Your have too much mass going to trail side and then to lead side. 
 

Your left hand grip has the v point towards your face. It should be pointed to right ear or between right ear and right shoulder. Its probably not in your hand properly. See tigers grip

 

your still very much upright in your posture.

 

between your desire to want to get narrow in the downswing and your say you dip the right shoulder. This will lead to the contact you see

 

Will get the sway under control and make a proper, small shift.

 

As for grip, I think I need to go more neutral. The geometry of the strong grip gets me confused, especially with the idea of getting my hands slightly forward. My club face seems closed at impact most of the time. 

 

Re: uprightness, should the toe of the club be up when resting it on the ground? That seems like the only way to get more bent over with the lie angle on my irons. 

 

What was that last thing about dipping my right shoulder?

[PNWGuy]

@RayPlan  We’re 2 pages into your thread and you have posted 9 iterations of your swing changes.  You have received numerous suggestions from some members who teach for a living and others with no apparent qualifications.  Maybe, just maybe you are getting sucked into the black hole of crowd sourced golf instruction.  But I do enjoy following this thread.

 

Just sayin’

[RayPlan]

Well, I think the black hole of crowd sourced golf instruction beats the black hole of solitary video study! 

 

I think my right shoulder movement has been a problem for a few months now, and it has led to right shoulder pain, though I couldn't figure out why. I think the "dip" is part of the cause.

 

I'm trying to lower my arms, but instead I'm mainly lowering the right shoulder, which changes my spine angle and presumably makes me do some weird compensations. Might also explain why I feel like I'm hitting the ground so hard all the time.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

As for grip, I think I need to go more neutral. The geometry of the strong grip gets me confused, especially with the idea of getting my hands slightly forward. My club face seems closed at impact most of the time

Neutral is fine but I don’t think your gripping grey club in the left hand properly which is why your is point to far left.

 

Grip the club in front of you with the club angled up at 45° and the club square then take your grip.

 

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

Re: uprightness, should the toe of the club be up when resting it on the ground? That seems like the only way to get more bent over with the lie angle on my irons. 

the toe should be off the ground a little.

 

It’s possible you will need to have your clubs adjusted. You need to have more bend at the waist.

 

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

What was that last thing about dipping my right shoulder

You noted it in your last video

[GoGoErky]

22 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Well, I think the black hole of crowd sourced golf instruction beats the black hole of solitary video study! 

 

I think my right shoulder movement has been a problem for a few months now, and it has led to right shoulder pain, though I couldn't figure out why. I think the "dip" is part of the cause.

 

I'm trying to lower my arms, but instead I'm mainly lowering the right shoulder, which changes my spine angle and presumably makes me do some weird compensations. Might also explain why I feel like I'm hitting the ground so hard all the time.

You need to get more left side bend and some added left knee flex to do what you want to do with the arms lowering

[golferdude54]

32 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Well, I think the black hole of crowd sourced golf instruction beats the black hole of solitary video study! 

 

I think my right shoulder movement has been a problem for a few months now, and it has led to right shoulder pain, though I couldn't figure out why. I think the "dip" is part of the cause.

 

I'm trying to lower my arms, but instead I'm mainly lowering the right shoulder, which changes my spine angle and presumably makes me do some weird compensations. Might also explain why I feel like I'm hitting the ground so hard all the time.

 

Needs a little more Robert De Niro judging on the face you make while swinging.

 

[MK7Golf21]

2 hours ago, PNWGuy said:

@RayPlan  We’re 2 pages into your thread and you have posted 9 iterations of your swing changes.  You have received numerous suggestions from some members who teach for a living and others with no apparent qualifications.  Maybe, just maybe you are getting sucked into the black hole of crowd sourced golf instruction.  But I do enjoy following this thread.

 

Just sayin’

 

well at least it doesn't look like he took my advice of casting the clubhead from the top. It looks like he is trying to tuck his hips and get them super close to the ball at address and cocking his wrists excessively now in the takeaway.

 

On forums people do sort of expect someone to post an updated swing looking like Adam Scott after a few tips.

 

I would tell the OP to work with someone who is qualified though and focus on that stuff if he wants to progress faster. 

[RayPlan]

I've got plenty of time to progress, but I figure I would consider finding a proper instructor once I'm in a position to actually play more golf. I'm lucky to play 3-4 times a year right now.

 

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though. Suppose I could get some focused instruction and build an efficient, repeatable swing plus good notes and drills to make sure I don't lose it. That might be a worthwhile investment, since I wouldn't be throwing away so much of my spare time with unproductive practice sessions. I have no idea what kind of costs I would be looking at, is the main thing. I should probably look at online coaching options, since I'm already comfortable recording and sending videos.

 

8 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

well at least it doesn't look like he took my advice of casting the clubhead from the top. It looks like he is trying to tuck his hips and get them super close to the ball at address and cocking his wrists excessively now in the takeaway.

 

On forums people do sort of expect someone to post an updated swing looking like Adam Scott after a few tips.

 

I would tell the OP to work with someone who is qualified though and focus on that stuff if he wants to progress faster. 

The hip tucking isn't what I'm trying to do, it's a side effect of trying to keep my hips over my ankles. Now that you mention it, it seems like I can also get that position by bending at the waist a lot, which puts a lot of pressure on the balls of my feet to keep me balanced. Is that closer to what I should be doing instead?

 

The early/excessive wrist cocking doesn't suit me, so I'll gladly knock that off.

 

And there's still time for me to try casting from the top! Once I try that, I'll be looking like Adam Scott in no time.

Edited December 11, 2024 by RayPlan

[GoGoErky]

11 hours ago, RayPlan said:

I've got plenty of time to progress, but I figure I would consider finding a proper instructor once I'm in a position to actually play more golf. I'm lucky to play 3-4 times a year right now.

 

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though. Suppose I could get some focused instruction and build an efficient, repeatable swing plus good notes and drills to make sure I don't lose it. That might be a worthwhile investment, since I wouldn't be throwing away so much of my spare time with unproductive practice sessions. I have no idea what kind of costs I would be looking at, is the main thing. I should probably look at online coaching options, since I'm already comfortable recording and sending videos.

I thin you are thinking about it wrong.

 

Regardless of how often you play you are currently working on your swing so it’s better to get an instructor now than at some time in the future.

 

11 hours ago, RayPlan said:

The hip tucking isn't what I'm trying to do, it's a side effect of trying to keep my hips over my ankles. Now that you mention it, it seems like I can also get that position by bending at the waist a lot, which puts a lot of pressure on the balls of my feet to keep me balanced. Is that closer to what I should be doing instead?

I posted a setup video from Porzak. There’s going to be pressure in the balls if the feet at setup. You don’t want it too much in the heels or too much in the toes.

 

Youre going to few things that aren’t comfortable or feel strange to you because you’ve been doing them incorrect for so long.

 

work on the porzak setup daily and check it constantly on video