Ray Ray's Swing Thread

[PNWGuy]

We're now in the "Troll Zone".

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, PNWGuy said:

We're now in the "Troll Zone".

Who's trolling? I'm not trying to get a rise out of people or intentionally annoy them. This has always been an earnest effort, and believe it or not, it's been the most productive month of learning about golf and swing mechanics in my entire life.

 

I can say that pretty easily because besides doing junior golf when I was 9-10 years old, I got any instruction or invested in improvement. My parents and my older brother were always the good golfers growing up, while I could take it or leave it. I got hand-me-down clubs and bags, but I had a bad attitude and thought I somehow deserved to be better, and acted accordingly. As a kid, through high school, I dragged everyone's rounds down because of how pissy I would get when I hit it poorly. I was lucky to break 100. In college, during the summers, I started enjoying the game and playing a lot, and managed to start breaking 90, with an all-time best round of 84 (from the standard mens tees). That was close to 15 years ago. I've never actually established a handicap.

 

I point all of that out because I'm not setting out to become a scratch golfer. My goals are more modest: I'd like to be able to competently get around the course without losing a bunch of balls and maybe someday break 80. I'd like most of my shots to do close to what I intended, most of the time.

 

To some (most?) who look at this, I probably seem like a bumbling fool constantly failing to grasp the good advice being given to me, but I am internalizing it and documenting it for reference. Right now, this is a good speed for me. When the time comes when I feel like I have the time to get serious, I'll find a proper instructor. 

 

Before I even get to that point, I need to know how ones goes about finding good instructors. I live in central Indiana. 

[RayPlan]

20 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

If you push your hands properly the body will react to the push even without a club, but you should be doing the drill with a club as mentioned above. This isn’t necessarily a drill meant to be done with no club. 

For what it's worth, I managed to find a feeling that gets me in a better position, which I worked out in my head while watching myself drill.

 

It wasn't just holding the club itself, I had to feel like I was almost pushing against my left hand with my right. That keeps my left arm from getting pinned to my chest, and both hands stay in front of the chest while my body turns. My left arm really wants to get to 7:00 before anything else, so the opposing push feeling keeps that from happening, and my body turns in response. It looks much more like Monte at that checkpoint.

 

This morning I was looking for golf instructors and found someone at a country club nearby who can do simulator work in the winter. $100 per hour session. Strongly considering it in the near future.

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by RayPlan
Corrected which hand is pushing against which

[Valtiel]

On 12/29/2024 at 7:07 PM, wildcatfan9698 said:

This type of online question/answer just isn't working for you. 

 

On 12/29/2024 at 11:17 PM, RayPlan said:

To some (most?) who look at this, I probably seem like a bumbling fool constantly failing to grasp the good advice being given to me, but I am internalizing it and documenting it for reference.

 

21 hours ago, RayPlan said:

This morning I was looking for golf instructors and found someone at a country club nearby who can do simulator work in the winter. $100 per hour session. Strongly considering it in the near future.

That will likely be what is ultimately necessary because as wildcat said above, sometimes this format just doesn't work for some. And when it doesn't it is very often those that have the unfortunate combination of being overly analytical and physically able to create different moves but don't have a solid enough grounding in how it all fits together. That original "core" swing that you had on the golf course wasn't that bad, you just had a couple fundamental areas that needed to be worked on diligently. 4 pages later you're bent over like a Japanese greeting and talking about how the tilt in your neck in your follow-through is necessary to focus on because of what you discovered barefoot in your pajamas. 😅

There is some merit to exaggerating moves when learning them, but so far you have a pattern of going far enough out of bounds with them that it suggests you're going to hurt yourself more than help if left to your own devices. Maybe that's just part of the iterative process for you *now*, but I agree that giving yourself a month to see where you're at and seeking good in person instruction if you're still flailing is a good idea. 

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

...the unfortunate combination of being overly analytical and physically able to create different moves but don't have a solid enough grounding in how it all fits together...

That sounds like me 😅

 

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

That original "core" swing that you had on the golf course wasn't that bad, you just had a couple fundamental areas that needed to be worked on diligently.

The Weird Move actually pre-dated that core swing video by about a month, as you can see here in the first recorded instance of "The Move," dated July 8, 2024:

The core swing was mainly the result of being fatigued at the end of the round to force the contrived swing. That round was on my birthday, when I actually received the net and mat as gifts.

 

Before the net, I would just video practice swings in the backyard, often standing on my crushed stone driveway. In Birkenstocks.

 

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

4 pages later you're bent over like a Japanese greeting and talking about how the tilt in your neck in your follow-through is necessary to focus on because of what you discovered barefoot in your pajamas. 😅

Practicing in questionable attire without proper footwear is nothing new for me, but it doesn't seem to do good things for my swing!

 

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

There is some merit to exaggerating moves when learning them, but so far you have a pattern of going far enough out of bounds with them that it suggests you're going to hurt yourself more than help if left to your own devices. Maybe that's just part of the iterative process for you *now*, but I agree that giving yourself a month to see where you're at and seeking good in person instruction if you're still flailing is a good idea. 

Between May and December, I watched way too many YouTube videos and tried to do too many different things with my swing. I got the net in August, which is when I started ingraining the bad patterns. 

 

Whether or not I'm still flailing, I may get lessons anyway. I don't think I'll suddenly become a great golfer, but I do like the idea of getting better, and I'm obviously open to trying new things in pursuit of that.

 

[RayPlan]

Working on NTC drills with added pressure shift drill from Porzak. 

 

 

 

With the quadrants, I feel like I can make a good shift-turn back, because the first move puts pressure on the trail toes (shift), then the trail heel (turn), but shifting toward the lead foot is where I tend to get out of position. When I drill it in slow motion, my head wants to drop too much as I add knee flex, then I have to push back up to keep from burying the club in the ground. 

 

The tendency that shows up in swings is when I back my head away from the ball, possibly stemming from the common tip to "sit into the left side." Or maybe it's still a backswing issue. Whatever it is, I think there's something my upper body is doing wrong (or isn't doing).

 

 

I tried to get my camera aligned better, which I think was successful.

 

Edit:

Regarding the head backing away, is it as simple as feeling like I'm keeping my head and chest/left shoulder out over the lead toes?

 

Talking about this quadrant:

 

 

Edit 2:

The answer is side bend, but nothing extreme. Its been missing in my rotation, and I can now feel how important it is.

 

Also, unlike other "epiphanies," these are directly related to my priority thing.

 

Edit 3:

 

It's so much easier to turn and get hip depth in the backswing with left side bend. 

 

Edit 4:

 

This looks different.

 

Edit 5:

My setup is still off. Looking at Adam Scott for comparison, I've got the club (7i) at too low of an angle and I'm too far from the ball. I have the weight on the balls of my feet, but the butt of the club is too far out from my body. 

 

Edited January 3 by RayPlan
Question about feeling weight in the 3rd quadrant. Now answering my own question with side bend. New video, looking somewhat better. Setup still needs work

[RayPlan]

I'm liking Porzak's teaching on setup and rotation. The hip bump seems to help with the pressure shift and hip rotation. 

 

 

I was comparing the video above to @Valtiel's Adam Scott GIF (and description of the steps) from page 1, and besides a less noticeable rightward shift, I think I'm getting closer. I'm feeling the rotation against the right leg, then falling back toward the target and rotating by extending the left. Notably, I've gotten the feeling that once I've shifted back toward the target, all I have to do is push with my left leg. 

 

 

 

I've been working entirely on setup, pressure shift, and rotation, mostly. because it's been too snowy and cold to do much else. 

 

Curious how these look to the more trained eye.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

17 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

I'm liking Porzak's teaching on setup and rotation. The hip bump seems to help with the pressure shift and hip rotation. 

 

 

I was comparing the video above to @Valtiel's Adam Scott GIF (and description of the steps) from page 1, and besides a less noticeable rightward shift, I think I'm getting closer. I'm feeling the rotation against the right leg, then falling back toward the target and rotating by extending the left. Notably, I've gotten the feeling that once I've shifted back toward the target, all I have to do is push with my left leg. 

 

 

 

I've been working entirely on setup, pressure shift, and rotation, mostly. because it's been too snowy and cold to do much else. 

 

Curious how these look to the more trained eye.

 

Does that spine angle look sustainable when swinging a club to you? 

[RayPlan]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Does that spine angle look sustainable when swinging a club to you? 

It doesn't feel excessive when I'm in it, but I admittedly have a hard time getting a feel for proper angle without a club. The club length will keep me from bending too forward, since I would otherwise have it super flat with the toe off the ground.

[iacas]

38 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Does that spine angle look sustainable when swinging a club to you? 

 

Did you catch the right heel action?

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Did you catch the right heel action?

I'll be honest, I didn't watch the video the first time because the setup caught my attention. Just watched it, and my browser won't clear the progress bar quickly enough for me to see the bottom of the screen even slowed down to 0.25x. What's happening? Lifting?

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

What's happening? Lifting?

 

Yep.

 

And yes, vertical huge videos on GolfWRX are a bit of a pain. You miss out on a lot of the stuff if you're not looking at it on a phone. I just download them when I want to see something because of that.

 

Pelvis shifting ~2" toward the ball.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11 by iacas

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, iacas said:

 

Yep.

 

And yes, vertical huge videos on GolfWRX are a bit of a pain. You miss out on a lot of the stuff if you're not looking at it on a phone. I just download them when I want to see something because of that.

Makes sense.

 

I should definitely sign in on my phone too. 

[RayPlan]

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Yep.

 

And yes, vertical huge videos on GolfWRX are a bit of a pain. You miss out on a lot of the stuff if you're not looking at it on a phone. I just download them when I want to see something because of that.

 

Pelvis shifting ~2" toward the ball.

 

 

 

 

I'll be more conscious of the video size and orientation, since I almost exclusively use this on my phone.

 

Disappointed with myself on the hip moving toward the ball. I've been doing better with that when actively focusing on it in practice, but I had a mental lapse here. Needless to say, it's not ingrained yet. Good reminder that these things take time.

 

Re: the heel, I've been trying to keep the weight on the balls of my feet in my setup, so they look slightly lifted even at rest. I take it I'm overdoing it?

 

 

 

[RayPlan]

I changed the title of this thread to reflect what's really been an undercurrent through all 7 pages of this. This is more personal than I would normally get on here, but I wanted to share, as an explanation for all this. If someone else similar to me sees this, maybe this can act as a cautionary example.

 

I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and though I take daily medication to control it, the mental tendencies don't just disappear. My brain seeks out novelty and stimulation, and unless I'm being especially mindful, I can wander down rabbit holes, seek out unimportant conversation (often arguments), and just generally lose focus on medium to long term goals to hyper-focus on the present, short term interest.

 

In many ways, this thread is a microcosm of my life. My good intentions and genuine goals are often obstructed by the way I'm predisposed to act. People I respect provide good advice that I know I should follow, and I try, but if I lose my discipline for even a short while, I slip into the familiar patterns and it looks like I don't listen or don't care. It's a frustrating experience for those people, and I can't blame them for getting annoyed with me. It's perfectly reasonable, which makes it worse when I do get reminded of what I should be doing, and how I'm failing in that regard. 

 

For anyone who has followed this thread, you've probably picked up on these patterns. With all of the golf instruction materials out there, with countless variations and styles, much of it free on YouTube, it's easy to go down those rabbit holes, especially when the algorithms feed you more and more of it. In many ways, this forum arrested my free fall into oblivion with my golf game, because knowledgeable people took the time to look at my swing and tell me things that I couldn't see myself, no matter how many videos I watched.

 

I got so much good advice that I wanted to jump in and fix everything, all at once. And my brain craved the reward of validation if I could show how I was successfully doing those things. That's obviously not realistic, and what ensued afterward was predictable in retrospect for me, but very foreseeable to others, I'm sure.  

 

So what's the upshot of all this? I'm still trying to figure that out myself, but I think one of the biggest things is that I need to be more mindful that I'm not falling into the familiar, detrimental patterns that keep me from succeeding. An instructor would likely help me stay grounded and focused on my priorities. Whatever my faults, I've always taken instruction well in other areas of my life. It's always been the independent study that I've struggled with.

 

Earlier this month, I committed to seeking out proper instruction in a months' time if I was still flailing. That's roughly two weeks left to see where I am. I'm not going to obsess over posting things here or in other threads like I have previously. I need to be more disciplined, and that's what I intend to do.

 

To anyone who I've annoyed with my scattered, argumentative, and stubborn behavior, all I can say is that I'm sorry, and that I will try to do better. 

 

tl;dr

 

I have ADHD, and this whole thread vividly shows how it can hinder the goal of improving at golf. Will try to do better.

[bladehunter]

19 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

I changed the title of this thread to reflect what's really been an undercurrent through all 7 pages of this. This is more personal than I would normally get on here, but I wanted to share, as an explanation for all this. If someone else similar to me sees this, maybe this can act as a cautionary example.

 

I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and though I take daily medication to control it, the mental tendencies don't just disappear. My brain seeks out novelty and stimulation, and unless I'm being especially mindful, I can wander down rabbit holes, seek out unimportant conversation (often arguments), and just generally lose focus on medium to long term goals to hyper-focus on the present, short term interest.

 

In many ways, this thread is a microcosm of my life. My good intentions and genuine goals are often obstructed by the way I'm predisposed to act. People I respect provide good advice that I know I should follow, and I try, but if I lose my discipline for even a short while, I slip into the familiar patterns and it looks like I don't listen or don't care. It's a frustrating experience for those people, and I can't blame them for getting annoyed with me. It's perfectly reasonable, which makes it worse when I do get reminded of what I should be doing, and how I'm failing in that regard. 

 

For anyone who has followed this thread, you've probably picked up on these patterns. With all of the golf instruction materials out there, with countless variations and styles, much of it free on YouTube, it's easy to go down those rabbit holes, especially when the algorithms feed you more and more of it. In many ways, this forum arrested my free fall into oblivion with my golf game, because knowledgeable people took the time to look at my swing and tell me things that I couldn't see myself, no matter how many videos I watched.

 

I got so much good advice that I wanted to jump in and fix everything, all at once. And my brain craved the reward of validation if I could show how I was successfully doing those things. That's obviously not realistic, and what ensued afterward was predictable in retrospect for me, but very foreseeable to others, I'm sure.  

 

So what's the upshot of all this? I'm still trying to figure that out myself, but I think one of the biggest things is that I need to be more mindful that I'm not falling into the familiar, detrimental patterns that keep me from succeeding. An instructor would likely help me stay grounded and focused on my priorities. Whatever my faults, I've always taken instruction well in other areas of my life. It's always been the independent study that I've struggled with.

 

Earlier this month, I committed to seeking out proper instruction in a months' time if I was still flailing. That's roughly two weeks left to see where I am. I'm not going to obsess over posting things here or in other threads like I have previously. I need to be more disciplined, and that's what I intend to do.

 

To anyone who I've annoyed with my scattered, argumentative, and stubborn behavior, all I can say is that I'm sorry, and that I will try to do better. 

 

tl;dr

 

I have ADHD, and this whole thread vividly shows how it can hinder the goal of improving at golf. Will try to do better.

I haven’t read it all.  But have a few pages.   And I’ll say it.  Bravo for learning yourself. As GI Joe said “ knowing is half the battle. “ 🤣. 
 

i understand everything you say about adhd. It’s rough especially with this game.    You go through bored spells where you’ll change good equipment just to feel stimulated and interested.  You’ll go down swing rabbit holes for the same reason.  You already know this but you have to learn  to spot those rabbit holes and avoid them ( most of the time ). And most importantly.  Try to learn to tune out those who will inevitably troll you for being forward about your differences. ( not shortcomings ) . I’d like to say I wouldn’t apologize for being long winded ( I do it too , both ramble and apologize) , you have just as much right to post your thoughts as anyone. And as you’re showing , you’re self aware more than Most.  Much more than most.  If only the complainers owned a mirror.  🤣.   

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

I changed the title of this thread to reflect what's really been an undercurrent through all 7 pages of this. This is more personal than I would normally get on here, but I wanted to share, as an explanation for all this. If someone else similar to me sees this, maybe this can act as a cautionary example.

 

I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and though I take daily medication to control it, the mental tendencies don't just disappear. My brain seeks out novelty and stimulation, and unless I'm being especially mindful, I can wander down rabbit holes, seek out unimportant conversation (often arguments), and just generally lose focus on medium to long term goals to hyper-focus on the present, short term interest.

 

In many ways, this thread is a microcosm of my life. My good intentions and genuine goals are often obstructed by the way I'm predisposed to act. People I respect provide good advice that I know I should follow, and I try, but if I lose my discipline for even a short while, I slip into the familiar patterns and it looks like I don't listen or don't care. It's a frustrating experience for those people, and I can't blame them for getting annoyed with me. It's perfectly reasonable, which makes it worse when I do get reminded of what I should be doing, and how I'm failing in that regard. 

 

For anyone who has followed this thread, you've probably picked up on these patterns. With all of the golf instruction materials out there, with countless variations and styles, much of it free on YouTube, it's easy to go down those rabbit holes, especially when the algorithms feed you more and more of it. In many ways, this forum arrested my free fall into oblivion with my golf game, because knowledgeable people took the time to look at my swing and tell me things that I couldn't see myself, no matter how many videos I watched.

 

I got so much good advice that I wanted to jump in and fix everything, all at once. And my brain craved the reward of validation if I could show how I was successfully doing those things. That's obviously not realistic, and what ensued afterward was predictable in retrospect for me, but very foreseeable to others, I'm sure.  

 

So what's the upshot of all this? I'm still trying to figure that out myself, but I think one of the biggest things is that I need to be more mindful that I'm not falling into the familiar, detrimental patterns that keep me from succeeding. An instructor would likely help me stay grounded and focused on my priorities. Whatever my faults, I've always taken instruction well in other areas of my life. It's always been the independent study that I've struggled with.

 

Earlier this month, I committed to seeking out proper instruction in a months' time if I was still flailing. That's roughly two weeks left to see where I am. I'm not going to obsess over posting things here or in other threads like I have previously. I need to be more disciplined, and that's what I intend to do.

 

To anyone who I've annoyed with my scattered, argumentative, and stubborn behavior, all I can say is that I'm sorry, and that I will try to do better. 

 

tl;dr

 

I have ADHD, and this whole thread vividly shows how it can hinder the goal of improving at golf. Will try to do better.

I'm glad that our PM discussion led to some clarity for you, man. Good luck on your swing adventure. 

[RayPlan]

Thanks for helping me get at the real issue @TheDeanAbides.

 

For the last 6 days, I've had a single-minded focus on setup and hip movement, trying to keep them from moving closer to the ball than where they started. I used the advice given by @iacas recently in another thread to push each hip back instead of trying to rotate. It's a helpful addition to what he previously posted here.

 

I think I'm getting it, based on the lines, except right after what would be impact, my right hip crosses the line slightly. I'm still going in slow motion to try to ingrain the movement pattern. It feels very unfamiliar and is working muscles in ways they're not used to, which I take to be a good sign, since I haven't been moving this way before.

 

 

I just need a check to see if I'm on the right track. I don't think I can really progress until I get this movement down.

 

Edit:

Rotating my hips felt pretty bad on my lower back until I realized I was sliding my hips out from underneath my torso instead of shifting left. I have changed this, resulting in the DTL swing above.

 

 

I don't know if this qualifies as working on more than one thing, but it feels like I will hurt myself unless I stop doing the shown on the left.

 

I can see why it felt so hard to shift pressure to the left. My body would be way over the trail side. 

 

Edited January 18 by RayPlan
Added face-on view comparison with important change that facilitated better rotation.

[RayPlan]

Attempted to add NTC-style arm movement and more fluidity. Notc oncerned with the arms/hands yet, but I wanted to have a bit more realistic feeling, since the arms-crossed turn is a bit too artificial. I kept from crossing the hip line, which is nice. Need some face-on to make sure I'm not shifting too far left. It almost looks like it from this view.

 

I also tried some things to make the video more desktop friendly. It's a little ugly, but maybe it's better than having the progress bar overlap the bottom. 

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

45 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Attempted to add NTC-style arm movement and more fluidity. Notc oncerned with the arms/hands yet, but I wanted to have a bit more realistic feeling, since the arms-crossed turn is a bit too artificial. I kept from crossing the hip line, which is nice. Need some face-on to make sure I'm not shifting too far left. It almost looks like it from this view.

 

I also tried some things to make the video more desktop friendly. It's a little ugly, but maybe it's better than having the progress bar overlap the bottom. 

 

 

 

 

You kept from crossing the line you don’t notice how stuck you were from sliding and not really rotating in the downswing.

 

[RayPlan]

16 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

You kept from crossing the line you don’t notice how stuck you were from sliding and not really rotating in the downswing.

 

I see it now. Might that be from not getting enough pressure on the front of my left foot in transition?

 

Seems like I got into the left heel too soon and lost leverage to push the hip back. I think I can see how my left leg is straightening ineffectively without transferring any force. Or something like that. What do you think?

[GoGoErky]

12 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

I see it now. Might that be from not getting enough pressure on the front of my left foot in transition?

 

Seems like I got into the left heel too soon and lost leverage to push the hip back. I think I can see how my left leg is straightening ineffectively without transferring any force. Or something like that. What do you think?

I think you need to stay focused on the not adding arms/pretend club is there and keep working on the hip drill. The last video you posted was a lot better but not to the point to move on. Also probably should work on doing that with a club in your hand before adding new stuff to make sure you can do it with a club in the hand.

 

once that’s good then look at adding transit and downswing

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

I think you need to stay focused on the not adding arms/pretend club is there and keep working on the hip drill. The last video you posted was a lot better but not to the point to move on. Also probably should work on doing that with a club in your hand before adding new stuff to make sure you can do it with a club in the hand.

 

once that’s good then look at adding transit and downswing

Thanks for the feedback. I figured it was premature, but I thought it might be valuable to stretch a little bit and probe my deficiencies that way.

 

Will continue drilling and hopefully add a club soon, once the weather allows (too snowy). 

 

The good thing I've noticed is that now that my body isn't so far out of position, I can feel more feedback from the ground up.

 

Edit:

I've been trying to keep my right hip back from the line so long that I forgot that I needed to rotate around the center of the pelvis, i.e. bring the right hip toward the target. That's the missing piece of the puzzle. Rotation already looks stronger in initial drilling.

Edited January 19 by RayPlan
Realization about rotation

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

I think you need to stay focused on the not adding arms/pretend club is there and keep working on the hip drill. The last video you posted was a lot better but not to the point to move on. Also probably should work on doing that with a club in your hand before adding new stuff to make sure you can do it with a club in the hand.

 

once that’s good then look at adding transit and downswing

100% this. If you feel it's time to move on then STOP. Have a word with yourself and go back to the drill. :) Also, you're not doing yourself any favours trying to make golf swing motions in those sandals. 

[RayPlan]

On 1/19/2025 at 3:57 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

100% this. If you feel it's time to move on then STOP. Have a word with yourself and go back to the drill. 🙂 Also, you're not doing yourself any favours trying to make golf swing motions in those sandals. 

Understood. I was watching video of myself doing the same movement so much, focusing on one element (staying behind the line) that it became hard to critically examine other parts. I needed another set of eyes to break me out of that. It's kind of like when writing something for a long time, I will fail to notice my own typos, but a proofreader spots them immediately. 

 

Adding the arms at the same time as more speed was a bad impulse, but the upshot of all this is a renewed focus on the initial drill.

 

I actually woke up this morning with some muscle soreness (the good kind) in the areas activated by the lower body movement, from all the reps I've been doing. Those muscles don't really get much work in my day to day, and I haven't done any exercises targeting those muscles, so I know it's from my be-sandaled bodyweight training in the kitchen.

 

I also seem to be picking up some body awareness that I didn't have before. Keeping my upper body connected to the lower body (a la the photo comparison with the angles above) has been key to that. So when @GoGoErky points out that I wasn't really rotating, I can get to that part of the motion and start to think about/feel different parts of my body and how they interact. So I'm starting to get a feel for how certain movements or positions interfere with (or promote) others.

 

I want to couch that by saying I don't think I have everything (or really much of anything) figured out, only that I feel like I have more sense of my own body, to where I can try different things and correct myself when trying to translate instruction on a pelvis movement into reality. It may turn out that when I get around to posting another video at some point, I'm doing it wrong in a way that I couldn't figure out on my own, but at least things are starting to feel more connected and less like a mysterious jumble of body movements that make no sense to me intuitively.

 

All of the above is meant to sort of show my thought process. My hope is that this body awareness I think I'm gaining is real, and that it will help me self-diagnose and self-correct some issues with movement.

 

There's an attractive logic to it: if a motion feels bad (like the sort of thing that will cause injury if repeated), try figure out how the movement has gone wrong. If a movement just feels uncomfortable from unfamiliarity, keep doing it unless I start to feel warning signs that it's a potential injury source. Things like hyperextension and forced joint movements are the most obvious examples that come to mind. 

 

One example I figured out on my own just the other day was my shoulder turn in the backswing. As I was drilling the hip movement (no arms), I found my right shoulder was starting to bother me (not quite pain, but definite discomfort). This has happened in the past from actual swings, to the point of causing pain (and weakness in some positions) that I would only notice after the fact. I thought it was due to some kind of bad shoulder movements I was making in the downswing, but I couldn't figure out what.

 

I realized 2 or 3 days ago that I was unconsciously doing a shrug with my right shoulder while turning in the backswing. When I suspected it, I stood up out of posture and saw in the mirror how my right shoulder was raised up, and retracting my right scapula in that shrugged position was creating some unnatural pressure where it shouldn't be. That's what I'd been unknowingly doing for who knows how long, and if I had continued to take full swings while doing it, I can almost guarantee I would have injured myself.

 

I felt pretty stupid for having risked this injury, once it became obvious how simple it was. On the other hand, it was affirming to see more benefits from taking things slowly.

 

I'm actually eager to drill more with some ideas on how I can improve rotation.

 

tl;dr

 

I tried to test myself with some speed and added arms, and predictably, I failed the test and still need to focus on the basics. Failure is a great way to learn. I've also started to develop more body awareness, which has helped my drilling and should help me avoid injuries, like an unexpected source of shoulder pain from doing a weird shrug in my backswing shoulder turn. Excited to drill more and refine the correct movements.

 

Edit:

Side bend makes rotation easier.

 

Edit 2:

This is like a puzzle. It's fascinating how many smaller components add up to a single move in the swing. The outlines of those pieces are becoming clearer to me, and how they fit together. Feels like some proper learning is happening now, and information I've seen or heard before now makes more sense. Very cool.

 

 

Edited January 20 by RayPlan
Really seeing and feeling the puzzle pieces for the first time

[RayPlan]

Ok, I've been making this way too complicated by trying to actively side bend. Someone in another thread posted the AMG video on side bend (the one with the infamous "cheerleader move") and highlighted the point that side bend in the swing is more about maintaining posture while rotating rather than doing it intentionally. With that in mind, I'm having a much easier time drilling hip rotation. I think the way I was trying to do it was a dead end, and this new "maintain posture" approach looks and feels closer to what I'm supposed to be doing. 

 

What I was doing before today required me to keep multiple thoughts in my head of things I needed to do with different body parts. This basically requires thinking only "don't let your body dip down."

 

I'm hoping this is the direction I should be heading, but I'm once again subject to my own blindspots, so if you see something, say something. Thanks

 

Edit 2:

I am sliding left too much in the downswing, trying to get that under control. 

 

New FO

New DTL

 

That collapsing left knee isn't doing me any favors.

 

 

 

The work continues.

 

Edited January 22 by RayPlan
Added new FO and DTL videos. And now even more.

[Snarkesor]

You’re deep in the weeds. I could make a few observations with regard to what I see going on in your pivot, and some misapprehensions that go along with it based on what you’ve written but what I’ve found that’s helped me most in cleaning up my pivot is feeling exactly where I’m trying to get with my body through the release. This drill/set of cues my instructor came up with for me really helped.

 

Stand up straight with club out in front of you, wrists in full ulnar deviation

Add thoracic extension

close of shoulders, but of side bend

Tuck chin, lay head on pillow

rotate hips and chest all the way around

 

Edited January 22 by Snarkesor

[iacas]

I think he’s focusing on the backswing right now @Snarkesor.

[RayPlan]

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think he’s focusing on the backswing right now @Snarkesor.

Correct. The only reason I'm doing anything past that (and not just turning back and stopping) is because it seems like a natural way to check that I'm getting the backswing portion right. 

 

Based on the advice you and others have given me (and to many others trying to improve), the backswing is critical because shapes everything that comes after. So I reasoned that if I'm drilling backswing sans club, the most immediate, usable feedback for my purposes would be how my body moves and feels during and after the backswing portion. If something looks/feels wonky after the backswing, then I have a clue that I may have done something wrong in the backswing. 

 

It seems valuable, since it allows me to self assess more than I had previously been capable of. I've been doing a lot of video on this, to the point where I just deleted 99 videos like the ones posted above of me drilling the exact same thing, because my phone is running low on storage. The upshot is that I shouldn't have to constantly seek others' feedback. And I think I've seen the results of that approach bear fruit so far, like finding the right shoulder shrug on the backswing, among other things.

 

Does that seem like a sound methodology to you?

 

As for being in the weeds, to address the post you responded to, I'm posting a lot of things here, especially via edits, for the purpose of documenting my own progress and showing that I'm not just having random "epiphanies" that may or may not have any value. 

Edited January 22 by RayPlan

[biker74]

8 hours ago, Snarkesor said:

You’re deep in the weeds. I could make a few observations with regard to what I see going on in your pivot, and some misapprehensions that go along with it based on what you’ve written but what I’ve found that’s helped me most in cleaning up my pivot is feeling exactly where I’m trying to get with my body through the release. This drill/set of cues my instructor came up with for me really helped.

 

Stand up straight with club out in front of you, wrists in full ulnar deviation

Add thoracic extension

close of shoulders, but of side bend

Tuck chin, lay head on pillow

rotate hips and chest all the way around

 

 

“You’re deep in the weeds”! Hahah.The irony after watching your video.