Closest graphite equivalent to PX IO 6.0

[Onohediint]

Currently game the Project X IO 6.0s in my iron sets and I’m curious about trying out some graphite shafts.  I’ve tried the MMT 105S, but felt like they were too stiff in comparison to the IOs.  Does anyone have any recommendations for graphite shafts that play more similarly to IOs?

Edited December 14, 2024 by Onohediint

[WristySwing]

11 minutes ago, Onohediint said:

Currently game the Project X IO 6.0s in my iron sets and I’m curious about trying out some graphite shafts in my irons.  I’ve tried the MMT 105S, but felt like they were too stiff in comparison to the IOs.  Does anyone have any recommendations for graphite shafts that play more similarly to IOs?

 

Both KBS and Steelfiber are higher balance point like the PX I/O. I would suspect that the SF is probably going to be the closer of the two because they are owned by the same umbrella company now. The thing with graphite is it generally has a much higher stiffness to weight ratio relative to steel, so if you are used to playing 110g steel shafts, it probably wouldn't be out of the ordinary to play 85-90g graphite that are built correctly to have them be about the same stiffness as the I/Os. I would start at the TGI 90 if you want something a bit firmer feeling or PGI 90 if you want something with a bit more kick. The SF 95 would also be a good one too but it will play a bit stiffer than the TGI and PGI, IMO (I find SF very stiff, personally). If you are used to 105-110g range and like the weight of those, you may have to drop down nearly a flex in the MMT by soft-stepping them 2X or look at something a bit smoother like the Accra TZI 105 or Axiom 105 as these can both be dialed in since they are parallel tips a bit better than a taper tipped model.

Edited December 14, 2024 by WristySwing

[Onohediint]

2 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

Both KBS and Steelfiber are higher balance point like the PX I/O. I would suspect that the SF is probably going to be the closer of the two because they are owned by the same umbrella company now. The thing with graphite is it generally has a much higher stiffness to weight ratio relative to steel, so if you are used to playing 110g steel shafts, it probably wouldn't be out of the ordinary to play 85-90g graphite that are built correctly to have them be about the same stiffness as the I/Os. I would start at the TGI 90 if you want something a bit firmer feeling or PGI 90 if you want something with a bit more kick. The SF 95 would also be a good one too but it will play a bit stiffer than the PGI. If you are used to 105-110g range and like the weight of those, you may have to drop down nearly a flex in the MMT by softstepping them 2X or look at something a bit smoother like the Accra TZI 105.

 Very insightful, thanks!  Will definitely take a look at the PGI 90 as I do like a more active feeling shaft.

[LoonyTunes]

1 hour ago, WristySwing said:

I would suspect that the SF is probably going to be the closer of the two because they are owned by the same umbrella company now.

 

PX IO and SteelFiber aren't similar. 

 

1 hour ago, Onohediint said:

Currently game the Project X IO 6.0s in my iron sets and I’m curious about trying out some graphite shafts.  I’ve tried the MMT 105S, but felt like they were too stiff in comparison to the IOs.  Does anyone have any recommendations for graphite shafts that play more similarly to IOs?

 

The IOs are flighted and at 110g. Each shaft is specifically designed for an individual purpose. The MMT 105S was a good guess for a starting point, but if it felt stiff, I would try soft stepping it a couple times and see how that works. If that doesn't work out and you feel like adventuring out, here are a few that you could try. 

 

Axiom 105S - you can tip these (or not) to get specific in between flexes

Accra TZi 95 - they make these in variable or constant weight

 

The KBS TGI are actually fairly stout even at the lighter weight. 

[WristySwing]

7 hours ago, LoonyTunes said:

 

PX IO and SteelFiber aren't similar. 

 

 

The IOs are flighted and at 110g. Each shaft is specifically designed for an individual purpose. The MMT 105S was a good guess for a starting point, but if it felt stiff, I would try soft stepping it a couple times and see how that works. If that doesn't work out and you feel like adventuring out, here are a few that you could try. 

 

Axiom 105S - you can tip these (or not) to get specific in between flexes

Accra TZi 95 - they make these in variable or constant weight

 

The KBS TGI are actually fairly stout even at the lighter weight. 

 

I'd beg to differ on them not being similar. Their EI curves are pretty close (albeit SF is slightly stiffer in the tip section), they both have higher balance points, for their weight class they both punch a bit higher in the stiffness category comparatively to other shafts of similar weights, and they both are designed with a mid trajectory in mind (albeit that doesn't usually mean much). After fitting with them extensively since the I/O release, the same players tended to like both pretty equally. While you can argue the similarities or differences, and which are more significant, the reality is most of the same players end up liking both and they perform closely, I would argue they are fact more similar than different. EI Curves below for comparison.

 

[LoonyTunes]

2 hours ago, WristySwing said:

the reality is most of the same players end up liking both and they perform closely

 

This statement hurts your argument more than it helps it. Because you're overgeneralizing and making statement you can't back up. You may be a fitter, but I highly doubt you know what "MOST" golfers like. We can have our opinions on the two shafts but when the OP said MMT 105s felt stiff, SteelFiber would the LAST shaft I'd be pulling off the wall. But you do you and suggest a shaft that is notorious for feeling overly stout. 

[PNW]

11 hours ago, LoonyTunes said:

 

PX IO and SteelFiber aren't similar. 

 

 

The IOs are flighted and at 110g. Each shaft is specifically designed for an individual purpose. The MMT 105S was a good guess for a starting point, but if it felt stiff, I would try soft stepping it a couple times and see how that works. If that doesn't work out and you feel like adventuring out, here are a few that you could try. 

 

Axiom 105S - you can tip these (or not) to get specific in between flexes

Accra TZi 95 - they make these in variable or constant weight

 

The KBS TGI are actually fairly stout even at the lighter weight. 

Where did you get this info? I’m not sure that’s accurate. Did you mean each flex range?

[LoonyTunes]

2 minutes ago, PNW said:

Where did you get this info? I’m not sure that’s accurate. Did you mean each flex range?

 
Yes

[WristySwing]

8 hours ago, LoonyTunes said:

 

This statement hurts your argument more than it helps it. Because you're overgeneralizing and making statement you can't back up. You may be a fitter, but I highly doubt you know what "MOST" golfers like. We can have our opinions on the two shafts but when the OP said MMT 105s felt stiff, SteelFiber would the LAST shaft I'd be pulling off the wall. But you do you and suggest a shaft that is notorious for feeling overly stout. 

 

I'm just going to quote my own post instead of getting in a useless p****** match with someone over the internet for no reason. Happy?

 

"I would start at the TGI 90 if you want something a bit firmer feeling or PGI 90 if you want something with a bit more kick. The SF 95 would also be a good one too but it will play a bit stiffer than the TGI and PGI, IMO (I find SF very stiff, personally). If you are used to 105-110g range and like the weight of those, you may have to drop down nearly a flex in the MMT by soft-stepping them 2X or look at something a bit smoother like the Accra TZI 105 or Axiom 105 as these can both be dialed in since they are parallel tips a bit better than a taper tipped model."

 

It's almost as if I warned them SF would be stiff, and suggested two alternative models BEFORE recommending the SF. Instead, I suggest you read what I wrote instead of deciding go all in on trying to disprove something you feel is incorrect instead of being backed up by literal years of data and live fits. It's not like anecdotal evidence on the internet the same as empirical data through live exercise. But, you're right, I'm clearly the wrong one in this scenario.

Edited December 14, 2024 by WristySwing

[Arlin964]

8 hours ago, PNW said:

Where did you get this info? I’m not sure that’s accurate. Did you mean each flex range?

He means that each shaft in the set is designed for a specific flight. That’s where the IO comes from:  Individually Optimized. 
 

EDIT: I thought I remembered the PX guy Keegan mentioning in a video that each shaft in the same set is optimized for a certain flight, but per the photo below it does look like it’s per flex, not shaft like I said at first. 
 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Arlin964

[Phabs]

21 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

Both KBS and Steelfiber are higher balance point like the PX I/O. I would suspect that the SF is probably going to be the closer of the two because they are owned by the same umbrella company now. The thing with graphite is it generally has a much higher stiffness to weight ratio relative to steel, so if you are used to playing 110g steel shafts, it probably wouldn't be out of the ordinary to play 85-90g graphite that are built correctly to have them be about the same stiffness as the I/Os. I would start at the TGI 90 if you want something a bit firmer feeling or PGI 90 if you want something with a bit more kick. The SF 95 would also be a good one too but it will play a bit stiffer than the TGI and PGI, IMO (I find SF very stiff, personally). If you are used to 105-110g range and like the weight of those, you may have to drop down nearly a flex in the MMT by soft-stepping them 2X or look at something a bit smoother like the Accra TZI 105 or Axiom 105 as these can both be dialed in since they are parallel tips a bit better than a taper tipped model.

That's all pretty spot on .

 

I was going to say KBS or Accra 105's 

[LoonyTunes]

5 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

I'm just going to quote my own post instead of getting in a useless p****** match with someone over the internet for no reason. Happy?

 

"I would start at the TGI 90 if you want something a bit firmer feeling or PGI 90 if you want something with a bit more kick. The SF 95 would also be a good one too but it will play a bit stiffer than the TGI and PGI, IMO (I find SF very stiff, personally). If you are used to 105-110g range and like the weight of those, you may have to drop down nearly a flex in the MMT by soft-stepping them 2X or look at something a bit smoother like the Accra TZI 105 or Axiom 105 as these can both be dialed in since they are parallel tips a bit better than a taper tipped model."

 

It's almost as if I warned them SF would be stiff, and suggested two alternative models BEFORE recommending the SF. Instead, I suggest you read what I wrote instead of deciding go all in on trying to disprove something you feel is incorrect instead of being backed up by literal years of data and live fits. It's not like anecdotal evidence on the internet the same as empirical data through live exercise. But, you're right, I'm clearly the wrong one in this scenario.

 

OK

[Stuart_G]

21 hours ago, WristySwing said:

EI Curves below for comparison.

 

Sorry not taking any sides here but I must say I'm not sure what you're basing that similarity on?   Curves with no numbers on separate graphs with different auto-scaling applied can not show anything about how similar they may or may not be.

 

 

On 12/13/2024 at 10:21 PM, Onohediint said:

 Very insightful, thanks!  Will definitely take a look at the PGI 90 as I do like a more active feeling shaft.

 

If you like a bit more of an active feel - you should give the Steelfiber FC90's or FC115's a try depending what weight might be a better fit.  They are much more active in the tip than the steelfiber i-series that most people know and refer to - plus they are also flighted like the IO's.

 

 

[jomatty]

Dropping down a flex when using SF’s made a big difference for me.  It sounds like you don’t like a shaft that is overly stiff feeling, which is how I feel as well.  I never would have thought that regular, 95 gram shafts would be a good fit for me but they are (I actually soft stepped stiff shafts because I had the shafts but will go regular in my next set).  I would definitely try going down a flex before writing SF off (you may get similar results from MMT’s as well).

The axioms may be a another good one to check out.

[WristySwing]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry not taking any sides here but I must say I'm not sure what you're basing that similarity on?   Curves with no numbers on separate graphs with different auto-scaling applied can not show anything about how similar they may or may not be.

 

 

 

If you like a bit more of an active feel - you should give the Steelfiber FC90's or FC115's a try depending what weight might be a better fit.  They are much more active in the tip than the steelfiber i-series that most people know and refer to - plus they are also flighted like the IO's.

 

 

 

In my experience, there's only so much companies can do with an EI profile/ bend curve, and the shape of the curves reflect that. You can have your typical Stiff handle/soft mid/stiff tip (Modus 120 and Ventus Blue for example) , a mid-stiff handle, stiffer middle, softer tip (Dynamic Gold and whiteboard, for example), or something more linear where it is stiff handle, stiff mid, and then mid tip (C-Taper and Ventus Black as examples). All others are largely derivatives of these few profiles. While Golf Shaft review or whatever it is that I linked does not provide the information, S3 software, which I used to have a subscription to back when I worked at my previous job had concrete numbers that supported butt, mid, and tip stiffness, balance point, and laser calculated bend curves over every inch of the shaft in 360* motion, and the SF and I/O were generally similar. Add onto that the fact both are back weighted/counter weighted/have stiffer handle sections (whatever you want to call it, all 3 are largely synonymous with each other in my experience and provide roughly the same performance benefits for a player that needs that design) with similar bend profiles is why I suggested dropping the 15-20g to an SF i95 could be beneficial if they still do like a firmer feeling shaft like a PX design. 

 

I concede that the EI profiles are not the be all end all, as where the weight is positioned and how the torque feels to the player is always going to weigh more heavily in how a player likes it, but it at least shows the curves are roughly similar, and is the best I have free access to now to visually show these relationships, which can be informative to some people.

Edited December 15, 2024 by WristySwing