Good Practice (Often Boring Practice)

[iacas]

Golfers/students watching me doing my technique practice at my indoor academy will often notice:

 

1. I hit about one ball every 45-60 seconds. I rarely hit more than three balls without taking a small break (enough to walk out and collect them), glance at a text, and get back to it.
2. I often practice with a 6I only (though I'll occasionally hit an 8, or a 4).
3. I hit my 6I between 100 and 150 yards. Sometimes out to 160.
4. I don't really care about contact. I've had practice sessions where half of my shots are shanks. It's fine.
5. I monitor one or two launch monitor data points at a time. Right now, it's just path, even though I'm not really working on path (I just don't want it to get too out of whack).
6. I never have a "breakthrough." *
7. I work on the same thing for weeks or, more frequently, months.
8. I have several things (besides the LM) that provide feedback. A PVC pipe at my feet. Mirrors. A HackMotion. Whatever.
9. I am constantly monitoring the little things. Is my right foot square or turned out 5°? How's my grip? Distance from the ball? Etc.
10. I record myself on video.

 

To elaborate on each:

 

1. Learning happens in the breaks between. When you can absorb. Process.
2. Because why not? It keeps things simpler, and if I'm not bored by doing it, because of #6 and #7… so what? Plus, it's all stickered up for the QuadMAX.
3. I know how far I hit my 6I (about 183). I don't need to constantly prove it, and practicing at full speed is not conducive to making changes.
4. I'm not working on contact. If you interrupt me in the middle of a practice session and say "hit one good," I'll do that. I tend to hit it out of the toe side, so when I'm exaggerating something, I often move it a bit too far into the heel.
5. I'm not making "golf swings" per se, I'm making a series of movements for the purpose of "playing around with" the piece I'm working on.
6. More on this below. *
7. More on this below. *
8. If you're not practicing with feedback, you're just exercising. And probably not really doing that well, either. 😄 
9. Great players do the ordinary things extraordinarily well. And consistently. I'm not great (PGA Tour), but I can do the ordinary things well.
10. Feel ain't real. And sometimes, a mirror isn't quite enough, since you have to be looking at it while you "feel" and see what it produces.

 

* I have this sign (and a few others) in my academy:

 

 

I don't have breakthroughs. Improving at golf is, at this point, about putting in the work. About taking care of the details and doing what I need to do. I have a loosely defined plan (I may spend more or slightly less time than planned — I don't want to hard-code timelines in, though I'm also in no rush).

 

———————

 

Why am I posting this? Because I see posts by others where they "have a breakthrough" or they "think they've got it" or they "struck the ball phenomenally well" that session. Who cares? The point of technique practice is to change the technique. To improve it. It's not to flush it. That'll come… if you're working on the right things in the right way.

 

Go slow. Play around in the "space" of your improvement. Give it time. Be patient and disciplined. Don't worry about results. Trust.

 

Good practice is often boring practice. It's not exciting. It's about putting in the reps.

[MonteScheinblum]

I agree and elite golfers do the same.

 

Most ams violate at least 7/8 of those and many all 10.  
 

I have never come across someone above a 2/3 cap that doesn’t violate at least 5/6 of those.

[lookylookitzadam]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

7. I work on the same thing for weeks or, more frequently, months.

This hits right in the feels. Been working on something for nearly 6 months and it’s finally starting to pay off. 

[GoGoErky]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Learning happens in the breaks between. When you can absorb. Process.

Happened after my last gym session. Started reflecting at home on the things that were happening during an exercise and there were things that I noticed I was doing that during the exercise I wasn’t aware of. 
 

I use the video in between sets as an assessment of the exercise.

[RayPlan]

@iacas as someone who can't do the ordinary things well, this is an interesting perspective. For me, it suggests there's a threshold you have to clear before you can actually use the practice patterns you describe above. After all, I can't just hit a good shot on command.

 

How can low skill players use boring practice to get to that level?

[Sean124]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

@iacas as someone who can't do the ordinary things well, this is an interesting perspective. For me, it suggests there's a threshold you have to clear before you can actually use the practice patterns you describe above. After all, I can't just hit a good shot on command.

 

How can low skill players use boring practice to get to that level?

Hitting a good shot on command is the least important part of his post. It eventually comes after doing all the other things he’s talking about. This is how you use the great tips you get for free on this forum. Pick one thing and go work on it for a while. 
 

 

[getitdaily]

Good list. If I may, I'll add:

 

11. Keep a log/notes of key feels that work best as you progress through the improvement cycle. 

 

Eventually you go from drills to improve to maintenance work. For me, that's reinforcing certain feels that produced desired results and put the club in good positions. 

[GoGoErky]

3 hours ago, RayPlan said:

@iacas as someone who can't do the ordinary things well, this is an interesting perspective. For me, it suggests there's a threshold you have to clear before you can actually use the practice patterns you describe above. After all, I can't just hit a good shot on command.

 

How can low skill players use boring practice to get to that level?

Not the OP, but you have to 1) understand that it’s going to take time and rushing to the end goal is going to hinder progress 2) that it’s going to be boring doing the little things like nailing the grip, alignment, posture and doing slower motion swings and drills, you will also have to do full swings every 5-6 drill swings to start to work on engraining the movements into the actual swing 3) be able to understand and analyze what’s going on and what’s right or wrong…this is the hard part for many because they can’t self diagnose even after having lessons or given online information on what to look at.

 

 

3 hours ago, RayPlan said:

After all, I can't just hit a good shot on command.

Not even an important part of his post.

 

3 hours ago, RayPlan said:

How can low skill players use boring practice to get to that level?

By focusing on one thing at a time and getting good at it, then moving onto

the next thing. Once you have command of the swing and face control you can learn to do things on demand

[GoGoErky]

15 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Good list. If I may, I'll add:

 

11. Keep a log/notes of key feels that work best as you progress through the improvement cycle. 

 

Eventually you go from drills to improve to maintenance work. For me, that's reinforcing certain feels that produced desired results and put the club in good positions. 

Feels change over time and even when going from improvement to maintenance the feels can and usually change once a movement is natural. Because the feel needed to learn the movement when it’s natural may not be the feel needed for maintenance.

 

This is how motor neurons and motor pathways work. 

[Nels55]

@iacas do you ever work on skill?  Perhaps things like hitting partial wedges to pricise distances or hitting irons to between club distances?  Or maybe draws and fades or even big old hooks and slices?  

[vegasandre]

I am thinking this post should be stickied at the top forever. 

Great advice...!

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Feels change over time and even when going from improvement to maintenance the feels can and usually change once a movement is natural. Because the feel needed to learn the movement when it’s natural may not be the feel needed for maintenance.

 

This is how motor neurons and motor pathways work. 

In my long history of cycles of maintenance to improvement to maintenance...

 

The feels that are key don't change that much as you near the end of the improvement phase. Logging/noting what feels work has been a very big key for me. 

 

The feels change a lot in the early part of the improvement phase. They funnel into just a few ones as the improvement phase nears its end. The feels also feel less exaggerated as improvement phase nears its end. 

 

However, during the maintenance phase we always regress back to old faults. The feels we came.outnof the improvement phase with are key to help keep the changes.

 

[bilbry57]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

Golfers/students watching me doing my technique practice at my indoor academy will often notice:

 

1. I hit about one ball every 45-60 seconds. I rarely hit more than three balls without taking a small break (enough to walk out and collect them), glance at a text, and get back to it.
2. I often practice with a 6I only (though I'll occasionally hit an 8, or a 4).
3. I hit my 6I between 100 and 150 yards. Sometimes out to 160.
4. I don't really care about contact. I've had practice sessions where half of my shots are shanks. It's fine.
5. I monitor one or two launch monitor data points at a time. Right now, it's just path, even though I'm not really working on path (I just don't want it to get too out of whack).
6. I never have a "breakthrough." *
7. I work on the same thing for weeks or, more frequently, months.
8. I have several things (besides the LM) that provide feedback. A PVC pipe at my feet. Mirrors. A HackMotion. Whatever.
9. I am constantly monitoring the little things. Is my right foot square or turned out 5°? How's my grip? Distance from the ball? Etc.
10. I record myself on video.

 

To elaborate on each:

 

1. Learning happens in the breaks between. When you can absorb. Process.
2. Because why not? It keeps things simpler, and if I'm not bored by doing it, because of #6 and #7… so what? Plus, it's all stickered up for the QuadMAX.
3. I know how far I hit my 6I (about 183). I don't need to constantly prove it, and practicing at full speed is not conducive to making changes.
4. I'm not working on contact. If you interrupt me in the middle of a practice session and say "hit one good," I'll do that. I tend to hit it out of the toe side, so when I'm exaggerating something, I often move it a bit too far into the heel.
5. I'm not making "golf swings" per se, I'm making a series of movements for the purpose of "playing around with" the piece I'm working on.
6. More on this below. *
7. More on this below. *
8. If you're not practicing with feedback, you're just exercising. And probably not really doing that well, either. 😄 
9. Great players do the ordinary things extraordinarily well. And consistently. I'm not great (PGA Tour), but I can do the ordinary things well.
10. Feel ain't real. And sometimes, a mirror isn't quite enough, since you have to be looking at it while you "feel" and see what it produces.

 

* I have this sign (and a few others) in my academy:

 

 

I don't have breakthroughs. Improving at golf is, at this point, about putting in the work. About taking care of the details and doing what I need to do. I have a loosely defined plan (I may spend more or slightly less time than planned — I don't want to hard-code timelines in, though I'm also in no rush).

 

———————

 

Why am I posting this? Because I see posts by others where they "have a breakthrough" or they "think they've got it" or they "struck the ball phenomenally well" that session. Who cares? The point of technique practice is to change the technique. To improve it. It's not to flush it. That'll come… if you're working on the right things in the right way.

 

Go slow. Play around in the "space" of your improvement. Give it time. Be patient and disciplined. Don't worry about results. Trust.

 

Good practice is often boring practice. It's not exciting. It's about putting in the reps.

It's a hard thing for most people to grasp

but true in most areas of life. "Discipline equals freedom"

8. If you're not practicing with feedback, you're just exercising. And probably not really doing that well, either. 
💯

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, Sean124 said:

Hitting a good shot on command is the least important part of his post. It eventually comes after doing all the other things he’s talking about. This is how you use the great tips you get for free on this forum. Pick one thing and go work on it for a while. 
 

 

That's exactly my point. Hitting a good shot on command is something he can take for granted because of his knowledge and skill level. Can someone who doesn't have that baseline actually train this way and have it be effective?

[iacas]

4 hours ago, RayPlan said:

@iacas as someone who can't do the ordinary things well, this is an interesting perspective. For me, it suggests there's a threshold you have to clear before you can actually use the practice patterns you describe above.

 

You can't take care to grip the club the best way you know how? To set up a practice station and make sure things are aligned? To manage the weight in your feet? To record yourself now and then to check what you're doing?

 

Those are the ordinary things. Like Scottie has shown this year with his training aid grip… good players manage those things on a daily basis. There's nothing stopping you from doing the same.

 

It's not easy. It takes _discipline_ to swing slowly throughout a practice session.

 

4 hours ago, RayPlan said:

How can low skill players use boring practice to get to that level?

 

As others said, that wasn't the point. I will literally shank half the balls, or top them, or whatever… and so I'm just saying that if someone said "okay now hit one normally" I can do that. So can you.

Too many amateurs worry too quickly about what the ball is doing.

 

One of my favorite passages from The Golfing Machine says (mostly the bold text):

 

The Three Imperatives and Essentials operate to correct faulty procedures. So, if they seem elusive, it is invariably because you are trying to execute them while you hit the ball - in your accustomed manner. That must be reversed. Learn to do those things even if you miss the ball - until you no longer miss it. There is no successful alternative (3-B).

 

When you're working on a technique change… stop worrying about the ball. Worry about changing the motion. If you're doing the right things, the ball flight and contact and whatnot will improve in the long-term.

 

2 hours ago, Sean124 said:

Hitting a good shot on command is the least important part of his post. It eventually comes after doing all the other things he’s talking about. This is how you use the great tips you get for free on this forum. Pick one thing and go work on it for a while. 

 

Yep. I see it here and elsewhere: people take a bunch of tips. Try one for a week. Think "I've got that one, what's next?" or "I had a breakthrough, that one is good!" and then look for the next one. Or they'll say "that one didn't work, what else can I try?"

 

 

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Not the OP, but you have to 1) understand that it’s going to take time and rushing to the end goal is going to hinder progress 2) that it’s going to be boring doing the little things like nailing the grip, alignment, posture and doing slower motion swings and drills, you will also have to do full swings every 5-6 drill swings to start to work on engraining the movements into the actual swing 3) be able to understand and analyze what’s going on and what’s right or wrong…this is the hard part for many because they can’t self diagnose even after having lessons or given online information on what to look at.

 

I sent @GoGoErky a video of my practice today. It was one shot. It was also about 2:30. Throughout the video… I checked my grip a few times. I rehearsed the good move. I rehearsed an exaggeration of the good move. I rehearsed the bad move. I touched on a bunch of other little checkpoints (pressure in my feet, etc.). I looked in the mirror. I had some feedback aids set up. Etc.

 

56 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

@iacas do you ever work on skill? Perhaps things like hitting partial wedges to pricise distances or hitting irons to between club distances? Or maybe draws and fades or even big old hooks and slices?  

 

Not really. When I do, it's just the days before an event (though more often that just means I play a bit more).

 

I'd elaborate, but… it feels off topic. This post isn't about skills practice; it's about technique practice.

 

2 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

That's exactly my point. Hitting a good shot on command is something he can take for granted because of his knowledge and skill level.

 

No, you've still missed the point.

 

You can still hit a shot in your accustomed manner, whatever that level is. That's all that part means. If you're practicing well, and not caring about the shanks and tops that you're hitting, and someone says "okay, now just hit a shot" you can still do that. It may not be, on average, as good as mine, but you can still do that.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

In my long history of cycles of maintenance to improvement to maintenance...

 

The feels that are key don't change that much as you near the end of the improvement phase. Logging/noting what feels work has been a very big key for me.

For you that might be true but it’s anecdotal and it’s not the same for everyone. Feels are a fleeting thing and do chagrin for most people. When a movement goes from foreign to natural the mind/body will consider the previous feeling foreign and it won’t accomplish the needed result. It’s the science behind how the brain works and how it signals to the body.

 

Youre swing has been very much the same for awhile despite some of the changes you have been implementing. So yours quite possible that using feels that have worked for you have kept the swing the same and don’t let it make much change, or you are one that can use the same feel no matter what.
 

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

The feels change a lot in the early part of the improvement phase. They funnel into just a few ones as the improvement phase nears its end. The feels also feel less exaggerated as improvement phase nears its end. 

 

However, during the maintenance phase we always regress back to old faults. The feels we came.outnof the improvement phase with are key to help keep the changes.

Less exaggeration is a change in feel.
 

yes we do regress to old habits, that’s part of the neurons system and how it remembers things. People call it muscle memory, but muscles don’t have memory. It’s the motor neurons that have the memory. So under pressure we revert to what the mind knows. It’s why good players in any sport are always working to keep things from regressing too much and making sure their current movements are engrained. It’s also

why changing movement patterns is not only hard, but takes a long time. 

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

For you that might be true but it’s anecdotal and it’s not the same for everyone. Feels are a fleeting thing and do chagrin for most people. When a movement goes from foreign to natural the mind/body will consider the previous feeling foreign and it won’t accomplish the needed result. It’s the science behind how the brain works and how it signals to the body.

 

Youre swing has been very much the same for awhile despite some of the changes you have been implementing. So yours quite possible that using feels that have worked for you have kept the swing the same and don’t let it make much change, or you are one that can use the same feel no matter what.
 

Less exaggeration is a change in feel.
 

yes we do regress to old habits, that’s part of the neurons system and how it remembers things. People call it muscle memory, but muscles don’t have memory. It’s the motor neurons that have the memory. So under pressure we revert to what the mind knows. It’s why good players in any sport are always working to keep things from regressing too much and making sure their current movements are engrained. It’s also

why changing movement patterns is not only hard, but takes a long time. 

My down the line swing has been the same because I haven't put significant effort into changing the backswing and transition motion. Doing that now. But that's not the point of my post. 

 

My post was that keeping notes of feels that work through a change is a key. I maintain that. The best instructor I ever had did that after each lesson. I have maintained that. It's important. 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

My post was that keeping notes of feels that work through a change is a key. I maintain that. The best instructor I ever had did that after each lesson. I have maintained that. It's important. 

 

Eh. I don't need to take notes because they'd look like this:

 

 

It'd be the same (overall) thing, every day, for months.

 

Feels change. Your body isn't the same every day. If you truly wrote down exactly what something felt like each day, it'd be pointless because you'd have 45 different feels over 60 days, all doing the same thing, and only one or two of those may truly apply any other given day.

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Eh. I don't need to take notes because they'd look like this:

 

 

It'd be the same (overall) thing, every day, for months.

 

Feels change. Your body isn't the same every day. If you truly wrote down exactly what something felt like each day, it'd be pointless because you'd have 45 different feels over 60 days, all doing the same thing, and only one or two of those may truly apply any other given day.

Well, ummm, no. But doesn't matter.

 

Merry Christmas. 

[Rbsiedsc]

This was awesome advice. I have slowed down when I practice but not to this extent. I tried it today after my stack session. It took more over an hour to hit about 35-40 balls. Towards the ends my soft swings with my feel felt better. I will definitely implement this in my technique practice more. I really appreciate this @iacas  

Edited December 24, 2024 by Rbsiedsc

[Rbsiedsc]

48 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not really. When I do, it's just the days before an event (though more often that just means I play a bit more).

 

I'd elaborate, but… it feels off topic. This post isn't about skills practice; it's about technique practice.

I’d like to know more about this at some point and if there is ever a time to switch between skill and technique work in a session or if you feel they should be dedicated? There are some that believe skill work can help self organize as well your thoughts?

[GoGoErky]

37 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

My down the line swing has been the same because I haven't put significant effort into changing the backswing and transition motion. Doing that now. But that's not the point of my post. 

 

My post was that keeping notes of feels that work through a change is a key. I maintain that. The best instructor I ever had did that after each lesson. I have maintained that. It's important. 

You keep changing feels of what you are doing in the downswing and yet it still looks the same and I bet face on wood be the same. 
 

keeping notes is pointless because feels change constantly. That’s science, our bodies are rarely the same from day to day. 

[GoGoErky]

24 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Well, ummm, no. But doesn't matter.

 

Merry Christmas. 

Well umm yes. Less or more sleep one day to another will affect how our body feels and moves. Change energy levels expended one day and your body will feel different the next. 
 

I can tell you this because as a personal trainer and a corrective exercise specialist our bodies will have different tightness from one day to the next based on a a number of variables. 
 

A weight I lift today may feel light and then next week that same weight could feel like a ton of bricks. so yes you would have a ton of different feels if you wrote them all down. 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

That's exactly my point. Hitting a good shot on command is something he can take for granted because of his knowledge and skill level. Can someone who doesn't have that baseline actually train this way and have it be effective?

It’s likely more important you train this way.

[otto6457]

All I can add to the discussion is that in my personal experience , less than 1% of the people I see on the range are using video or a launch monitor.

 

I will further add that fewer that 20% of players I know have ever seen their swing on video.  Most don't care to.

 

Yet they complain constantly that they never get better.

 

Insanity I tell you.

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, Rbsiedsc said:

I’d like to know more about this at some point and if there is ever a time to switch between skill and technique work in a session or if you feel they should be dedicated? There are some that believe skill work can help self organize as well your thoughts?

 

That's a whole other topic.

[Pnwpingi210]

31 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Well umm yes. Less or more sleep one day to another will affect how our body feels and moves. Change energy levels expended one day and your body will feel different the next. 
 

I can tell you this because as a personal trainer and a corrective exercise specialist our bodies will have different tightness from one day to the next based on a a number of variables. 
 

A weight I lift today may feel light and then next week that same weight could feel like a ton of bricks. so yes you would have a ton of different feels if you wrote them all down. 

Yup, and I don’t think most understand the difference between muscular fatigue and cns fatigue.  

Edited December 24, 2024 by Pnwpingi210

[getitdaily]

36 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

You keep changing feels of what you are doing in the downswing and yet it still looks the same and I bet face on wood be the same. 
 

keeping notes is pointless because feels change constantly. That’s science, our bodies are rarely the same from day to day. 

I have gone through about 3 feels trying to change my downswing. And those 3 feels have led me exactly where I am today. I started working on changing my transition move earlier this year. The look of my swing from dtl hasn't changed simply because I never fully committed to what that change meant. I saw glimpses of what it would be over the summer. But each step forward brought me quickly to the same point...my setup and backswing would have to change too. A nearly complete pattern change from backswing to transition. Between baseball seasons where I coached my son's team and tournaments basically every other week through spring and summer and then 2 big tournaments in November and December, I just didn't have the time to get fully committed to the change.

 

No tournaments until March so I'm now going to make the change.  You'll see how that change progresses if you follow that other thread. My tournament 1.5 weeks ago showed me that I was stuck between the new and old patterns. Time to put the new in.

 

As for this thread, feels change...that's why it's important to.keep notes of what works. So you can easily filter through the noise and stay committed to feels that work.  

[GoGoErky]

6 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Yup, and I don’t think most understand the difference between muscular fatigue and cns fatigue.  

Nope. Both play a role in how we feel each days how we move or can move from day to day.

 

drink less water than normal one day and it will affect how you feel and move. Sleep 5 hours instead of 7 and your body will feel and move differently between those days.

 

When I train i have a warmup routine that includes some mobility work then I do my first warmup set. I’ll then do another round of the mobility work and then my next warmup set. There’s days where I have to repeat the mobility work 3-4 times as I warmup and days where only 1-2 is needed 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, GoGoErky said:

Nope. Both play a role in how we feel each days how we move or can move from day to day.

 

drink less water than normal one day and it will affect how you feel and move. Sleep 5 hours instead of 7 and your body will feel and move differently between those days.

 

When I train i have a warmup routine that includes some mobility work then I do my first warmup set. I’ll then do another round of the mobility work and then my next warmup set. There’s days where I have to repeat the mobility work 3-4 times as I warmup and days where only 1-2 is needed 

I know those feels!