Can you work on two swing changes at once? If so, how to proceed?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Simple question. I have two things in my swing that I feel need to be addressed. While I know a lot of things in a swing are interrelated, I do feel like for me personally these are two distinctly different problems:

 

1. Sway away from the target in the backswing, getting stuck on the trial side and recentering too late, leading to a slide/EE that impedes a proper pivot as I haven't gotten pressure to the lead side early enough. (I've been working on this one for a while and it's making improvement, but I don't think I'm "done" by any means.)
2. A takeaway move that I think gives my backswing a very poor start. I seem to push my left arm off my body but at the same time I have excess forearm rotation, and a late hinge. So the clubhead is behind and open at P2, and overall my backswing/transition tends towards a shallow/steep pattern when I would like to get closer to a steep/shallow pattern. I feel like the takeaway to P2, and then probably the P2->P3 move after the takeaway, needs its own work. But I need to address the takeaway first. 

 

I'm not going to post a swing in this thread because I'm not looking for advice here on HOW to address my own specific faults.

 

Instead, I'm wondering if it is possible/advisable to be trying to address two swing faults simultaneously. If doing two things at once makes it impossible to do either effectively, obviously I'd just be shooting myself in the foot to try to focus on both. But if splitting my practice time between them means I'll make progress faster than if I try to do them sequentially, then it'll improve my speed to improvement. 

 

So question 1: Is it possible/advisable to try to address multiple independent swing faults simultaneously? 

 

Then that brings up an obvious follow-up...

 

Question 2: If it is possible/advisable, how do you break down your practice to do both?

 

My own thought would be to break them down individually. Let's say I devote half my practice to each. For the pressure shift portion, I'd spend half of my time working on that and not even thinking about my takeaway. It would be purely mentally focused on ONE movement pattern. Then the other half I would be working only on the takeaway and not thinking about my pressure shift, purely mentally focused on the SECOND movement pattern. With the hope that the two independent changes would blend together in my real swing over time. And by "half" I'm not talking trading off one swing after another between them. It would likely be blocks, so 25% on pressure shift, 25% on takeaway, 25% on pressure shift, 25% on takeaway, and then I'm done for the day...

 

But if that's just daft and a terrible way to try to do two things at once, by all means let me know...

 

Thanks in advance, everyone!

[GoGoErky]

Your issues are probably interrelated. Your takeaway is causing the issues you have with late pressure shift which is why you early extend.

 

Fix the main culprit first and then see what happens to the rest of the swing( then address the next thing.

 

to me the takeaway of arms pushing away from the body and rolling the arms need to be fixed first.

 

learn proper use of the chest shoulders for how to take the club away and learn proper wrist and to do it early in the takeaway.

 

 

[mikpga]

Separate, Blend, Repeat…

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

40 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Your issues are probably interrelated. Your takeaway is causing the issues you have with late pressure shift which is why you early extend.

 

Thanks. From working with Monte, he had explained that the late wrist hinge (more than the rest of the takeaway) and the late pressure shift could be very interrelated. Sort of (paraphrasing from a while back) that it's almost a fear of the weird feeling of shifting properly and an earlier wrist hinge would precipitate a better shift, or a better shift would precipitate an earlier wrist hinge. He had me work on the shift first, but it hasn't really changed the wrist hinge much. 

 

My shift is much better than it was back then (~1.5 yrs ago) without addressing the takeaway at all, but the takeaway and wrist hinge isn't. What I'm hoping to do is to fix the takeaway while not only NOT backsliding on the pressure shift gains I've already made, but hopefully get me more and more where I need to be on the pressure shift. So I feel like I can't ignore it while I work on the takeaway. 

 

39 minutes ago, mikpga said:

Separate, Blend, Repeat…

 

 

Thanks! By which I think you're saying that I can work on both separately (and simultaneously), and then work on blending them over time?

[MountainKing]

I personally wouldn't. I always view the swing as one big cause and effect from setup.  Change the earliest thing in the sequence first and see what it does to the rest, then it's a rinse and repeat.  When I worked with Monte he had 3 key things for me to correct.  One was getting everything more forward in my setup, doing that also corrected the takeaway issue, leaving only the third item.

[getitdaily]

Yes, you can combine those changes and work on the fixes at the same time. You generally can combine a couple of changes to resolve at the same time. But especially 2 that are as interrelated as the wrist set and backswing pressure/weight shift. 

 

For your specific 2 moves, I'd do mirror work on just the takeaway and pressure shift. Then, on the range, drill in the mirror work with some.blended full swings...

 

3 or 4 drill swings at a slower than full speed pace followed by 1 swing at normal pace. Rinse and repeat as long as you want.

[RayPlan]

31 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Thanks. From working with Monte, he had explained that the late wrist hinge (more than the rest of the takeaway) and the late pressure shift could be very interrelated. Sort of (paraphrasing from a while back) that it's almost a fear of the weird feeling of shifting properly and an earlier wrist hinge would precipitate a better shift, or a better shift would precipitate an earlier wrist hinge. He had me work on the shift first, but it hasn't really changed the wrist hinge much. 

 

My shift is much better than it was back then (~1.5 yrs ago) without addressing the takeaway at all, but the takeaway and wrist hinge isn't. What I'm hoping to do is to fix the takeaway while not only NOT backsliding on the pressure shift gains I've already made, but hopefully get me more and more where I need to be on the pressure shift. So I feel like I can't ignore it while I work on the takeaway. 

 

 

Thanks! By which I think you're saying that I can work on both separately (and simultaneously), and then work on blending them over time?

If you've been working on the shift for that long, then it's probably safe to try actively working on the early wrist hinge. Seems unlikely that you'll just forget the shift.

[GoGoErky]

33 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Thanks. From working with Monte, he had explained that the late wrist hinge (more than the rest of the takeaway) and the late pressure shift could be very interrelated. Sort of (paraphrasing from a while back) that it's almost a fear of the weird feeling of shifting properly and an earlier wrist hinge would precipitate a better shift, or a better shift would precipitate an earlier wrist hinge. He had me work on the shift first, but it hasn't really changed the wrist hinge much. 

 

My shift is much better than it was back then (~1.5 yrs ago) without addressing the takeaway at all, but the takeaway and wrist hinge isn't. What I'm hoping to do is to fix the takeaway while not only NOT backsliding on the pressure shift gains I've already made, but hopefully get me more and more where I need to be on the pressure shift. So I feel like I can't ignore it while I work on the takeaway. 

Monte is pretty smart guy. Our brain and body are too. They will react to what the club is doing.

 

Pressure shifting and the takeaway are pretty interrelated for most people. 

 

[GoGoErky]

2 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

If you've been working on the shift for that long, then it's probably safe to try actively working on the early wrist hinge. Seems unlikely that you'll just forget the shift.

It’s quite possible to forget to do something or have it regress a bit when working on something else, because we lose focus. We have to be cognizant of the good things we are already doing and keep doing them while working on something else.

 

Its part of why going slow is important and only working on 1 thing at a time with maybe two being the max.

 

Its part of the reason why it’s mentioned to monitor one or two launch monitor things to ensure the changes aren’t affecting what’s happening

[mikpga]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Thanks. From working with Monte, he had explained that the late wrist hinge (more than the rest of the takeaway) and the late pressure shift could be very interrelated. Sort of (paraphrasing from a while back) that it's almost a fear of the weird feeling of shifting properly and an earlier wrist hinge would precipitate a better shift, or a better shift would precipitate an earlier wrist hinge. He had me work on the shift first, but it hasn't really changed the wrist hinge much. 

 

My shift is much better than it was back then (~1.5 yrs ago) without addressing the takeaway at all, but the takeaway and wrist hinge isn't. What I'm hoping to do is to fix the takeaway while not only NOT backsliding on the pressure shift gains I've already made, but hopefully get me more and more where I need to be on the pressure shift. So I feel like I can't ignore it while I work on the takeaway. 

 

 

Thanks! By which I think you're saying that I can work on both separately (and simultaneously), and then work on blending them over time?

Separate the “feels” of each, and over time attempt to blend the “feels”

[RayPlan]

8 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

It’s quite possible to forget to do something or have it regress a bit when working on something else, because we lose focus. We have to be cognizant of the good things we are already doing and keep doing them while working on something else.

 

Its part of why going slow is important and only working on 1 thing at a time with maybe two being the max.

 

Its part of the reason why it’s mentioned to monitor one or two launch monitor things to ensure the changes aren’t affecting what’s happening

As someone who has tried to work on too many things at once, I identify with this post. 

Edited January 3 by RayPlan
Being presumptuous

[Sean124]

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

If you've been working on the shift for that long, then it's probably safe to try actively working on the early wrist hinge. Seems unlikely that you'll just forget the shift.

It’s wild reading through your thread, then seeing you in half the other threads here giving advice.

[RayPlan]

2 hours ago, Sean124 said:

It’s wild reading through your thread, then seeing you in half the other threads here giving advice.

And my advice is generally: don't be stupid like I was, and listen to people who know what they're talking about.

 

Edit:

Except when I'm just talking out my a** when I shouldn't be.

Edited January 2 by RayPlan
Caught looking silly

[Sean124]

15 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

And my advice is generally: don't be stupid like I was, and listen to people who know what they're talking about

That’s not what you did in your post I quoted. 

 

Or this thread

 

 

You’re giving advice to a plus handicap in this one

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

As someone who has tried to work on too many things at once, I identify with this post. 

 

I took for granted that the shift stuff would be engrained, given the timeframe. But even if not, early wrist set seems like a relatively simple thing to begin to implement, since it happens at the easiest part of the swing to control: the beginning. Or at least, I've found it much easier than shifting and hip rotation. 

 

I hear ya... But from your improvement thread, you're 35 and you've been playing 10 years. I'm 46 and have been playing since before I was 10, so getting darn close to 4 decades. I had instruction in my teens that has given me a "mostly functional" swing, but we're still talking about decades of ingrained bad patterns that I'm finally trying to improve... And without a ton of practice time. 

 

The shift stuff is miles better than it was ~1.5 years ago. But it's still not "there" and it's still a pattern that I worry I'll drift back into if I'm not careful. 

 

If you listen to the instructors on this forum, they will tell you that plus handicaps and PGA Tour golfers are usually keeping an eye on checkpoints because even they have bad patterns that they worry that they're going to drift back into. The difference is that pros' bad patterns are the difference between the 40th best golfer in the world (keep your Tour card and make millions) and the 200th best golfer (good luck on the KFT, buddy!). My bad patterns are 100x less functional than theirs, and I spend about 100x less time on my game than they do... 

 

So... Yeah. I'd say that as you keep up with your own improvement, you should recognize that certain tendencies in your swing are never truly "fixed". Regular checkpoints with video are not only helpful to make sure you're fixing the stuff you're working on, but also to make sure that you're not regressing in the stuff you've already "fixed". 

[Sean124]

My experience from the last year-

 

Saw Monte in early ‘24: You need to work on thing #1

 

Sent him a video in the summer: Still work on thing #1

 

Saw him early December: Good job, now work on thing #2

 

After a few weeks of working on thing #2, I caught myself regressing on thing #1. No sh!t on the course this morning, I realized it on the front 9, combined the two thoughts and hit every GIR on the back. 
 

I still feel good enough about thing #1 to focus more on thing #2, but I’ll have to keep an eye on it. 

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, Sean124 said:

That’s not what you did in your post I quoted. 

 

Or this thread

 

 

You’re giving advice to a plus handicap in this one

 

I'll stop embarrassing myself, then.

[PedronNiall]

Agree with what's been said above: it depends, but in your case the two are likely interconnected. Fix the takeaway, observe how doing so on slow, short, and eventually full swings affects the ee/sway.