Upper core awkwardness

[NosajNeelik]

13 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Except she's not teaching a passive arms swing, she's teaching one where the arms aren't the initiator or engine of the downswing, which they shouldn't be. The terminology could be better but it works for someone having the issues he did so pertinent to the lesson at least. I don't think all the talk about the hands don't nothing is great for any rando watching it hoping to understand the swing rather than someone with similar issues to his needing a fix, though this isn't the first YouTube clip that's not to be taken out of context. 

 

I'm quite sure you can look at what he did when he went from duffing it to a solid strike and agree his arms weren't passive. 

She tricking him into sequencing better. This whole arms vs body is so tiresome as it’s neither. It’s both. 

[GoGoErky]

41 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Except she's not teaching a passive arms swing, she's teaching one where the arms aren't the initiator or engine of the downswing, which they shouldn't be. The terminology could be better but it works for someone having the issues he did so pertinent to the lesson at least. I don't think all the talk about the hands don't nothing is great for any rando watching it hoping to understand the swing rather than someone with similar issues to his needing a fix, though this isn't the first YouTube clip that's not to be taken out of context. 

 

I'm quite sure you can look at what he did when he went from duffing it to a solid strike and agree his arms weren't passive. 

Exactly. She told him he was using his hands too much. She gave him something to try and not over do the use of the hands. 

 

[GoGoErky]

27 minutes ago, NosajNeelik said:

She tricking him into sequencing better. This whole arms vs body is so tiresome as it’s neither. It’s both. 

Well the swing always starts with the legs and using the ground. There’s a a very small time frame between lower body and upper body going in transition. The problem is most arms don’t move their arms fast enough or do things to have them trail.

 

 

 

[golferdude54]

On 1/11/2025 at 8:42 PM, Nels55 said:

Here is Joe Miller world long drive champion bombing one, if I remember correctly this was the winning drive:

 

 

Joe Miller was also the tallest and biggest guy that year. Someone like Jamie Sadlowski with Joe Miller's technique wouldn't even qualify for the event.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Well the swing always starts with the legs and using the ground. There’s a a very small time frame between lower body and upper body going in transition. The problem is most arms don’t move their arms fast enough or do things to have them trail.

 

 

 

Agree with both of you

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

@Valtiel I don't know that impact pretty extreme. I only looked up Webb and he isn't even in the same ballpark, he is a more handsy guy though I agree and also I get what you mean. I actually like Simpsons, not crazy open or closed. 

 

 

older one here from 2011 or so

 

Oh for sure, I didn't mean to say that Webb was a comp for Rinker, just a comp for what an "upper core" player looks like on tour. On that continuum, Webb is miles closer to Rinker than say Niemann:



Slight loss of hip depth and spine angle, hands raised/out, and a *very* shut/rolled over clubface via a pretty flick-y release through the ball. And from 2011-2021 he was basically in the short game hall of fame stats-wise. You don't typically see shots like this in the tool belt of these big body driven side benders. It *almost* makes up for that IZOD commercial. 😂

[GolfTurkey]

On 1/9/2025 at 6:24 AM, virtuoso said:

I think Milo and Larry should give a clinic together. I would attend.

 

 

I would hold a raffle to predict:

 

--what % of the attendees could statically get into position 2

--what % of the survivors would remain after adding speed to position 2

[virtuoso]

22 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I would hold a raffle to predict:

 

--what % of the attendees could statically get into position 2

--what % of the survivors would remain after adding speed to position 2

1: 14%

2: 3%

 

What did I win?

[GolfTurkey]

10 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

1: 14%

2: 3%

 

What did I win?

 

A free core testing session

[RayPlan]

55 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I would hold a raffle to predict:

 

--what % of the attendees could statically get into position 2

--what % of the survivors would remain after adding speed to position 2

This goofiness infected my swing for a little while. I died

 

 

[iacas]

40 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

1: 14%

2: 3%

 

What did I win?

 

I'll take the under. I know the types of people who take group clinics. 😄 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

1: 14%

2: 3%

 

What did I win?

I don’t know but the 3% in group 2 will need a lifetime supply of fleet enemas.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

I'll take the under. I know the types of people who take group clinics. 😄 

Agree.  On top of that…..I can do it and hit it fine, but why would I want to?

[PedronNiall]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Oh for sure, I didn't mean to say that Webb was a comp for Rinker, just a comp for what an "upper core" player looks like on tour. On that continuum, Webb is miles closer to Rinker than say Niemann:



Slight loss of hip depth and spine angle, hands raised/out, and a *very* shut/rolled over clubface via a pretty flick-y release through the ball. And from 2011-2021 he was basically in the short game hall of fame stats-wise. You don't typically see shots like this in the tool belt of these big body driven side benders. It *almost* makes up for that IZOD commercial. 😂

 

I can't comprehend building a swing with that impact position to begin with let alone sticking with it after what's already happened to Willy Z. Brutal to look at. 

[MonteScheinblum]

6 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

I can't comprehend building a swing with that impact position to begin with let alone sticking with it after what's already happened to Willy Z. Brutal to look at. 

I posted this 3 days before Zaltoris announced he was out for the season with back sugary.  Michael Thorbjorsnen.   I hate it when I’m right about this stuff.  I commented about Day’s restricted hip turn when he was #1. I’d rather be wrong and have these guys entertain us with their play.  
 

Imagine what it does to a non elite golfer/athlete.

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cqyi3YFOj2S/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

18 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

I can't comprehend building a swing with that impact position to begin with let alone sticking with it after what's already happened to Willy Z. Brutal to look at. 

 

8 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I posted this 3 days before Zaltoris announced he was out for the season with back sugary.  Michael Thorbjorsnen.   I hate it when I’m right about this stuff.  I commented about Day’s restricted hip turn when he was #1. I’d rather be wrong and have these guys entertain us with their play.  
 

Imagine what it does to a non elite golfer/athlete.

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cqyi3YFOj2S/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

 

 

 

Yeah thankfully for Niemann, Willy Z has/had extra stuff going on that explains his issues. It wasn't just the side bending, but the right side bending as well. Zalatoris long played the ball further back in his stance than normal, especially with the driver. It was likely just a childhood thing that he learned to really crunch down his right side and hang back through impact to compensate for. He also loses some hip depth as well while creating more vertical "jumping" forces compared to Niemann. It was just a bad witch's brew of moves that took some of the extra forces that side bending imparts and added more compression from the additional vertical and more shear from the right side bend. He was just crunching his lower back from more dimensions than most and at elite speeds. I made a thread linking the great video covering the changes he made, and like Monte above it was somewhat validating in that I had theorized about this prior and the video then discussed changes addressing those theories, more or less confirming them. He's moved the ball further forward to reduce the right side bend needed through impact and changed how his hips moved to maintain depth. He is also just getting a little less open with his torso. These are all things I don't believe Niemann has issues with. 

[PedronNiall]

9 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 

Yeah thankfully for Niemann, Willy Z has/had extra stuff going on that explains his issues. It wasn't just the side bending, but the right side bending as well. Zalatoris long played the ball further back in his stance than normal, especially with the driver. It was likely just a childhood thing that he learned to really crunch down his right side and hang back through impact to compensate for. He also loses some hip depth as well while creating more vertical "jumping" forces compared to Niemann. It was just a bad witch's brew of moves that took some of the extra forces that side bending imparts and added more compression from the additional vertical and more shear from the right side bend. He was just crunching his lower back from more dimensions than most and at elite speeds. I made a thread linking the great video covering the changes he made, and like Monte above it was somewhat validating in that I had theorized about this prior and the video then discussed changes addressing those theories, more or less confirming them. He's moved the ball further forward to reduce the right side bend needed through impact and changed how his hips moved to maintain depth. He is also just getting a little less open with his torso. These are all things I don't believe Niemann has issues with. 

 

Hey, if it turns out our bodies are just so resilient that Niemann, Bennett, Sargent, and the rest somehow come out unscathed than as always, happy to eat crow. Nothing about our anatomy suggests to me someone can have that much torsion on their vertebrae and that much stretching of the connective tissue and nerve sheathe within for years and not have some negative outcome, though. Again, don't study that for a living so it's entirely possible there are nuances I'm unaware of and soon studies will come out showing that we're made of laffy taffy and it's no biggie, but until then I'll remain on the "don't do that" bus based on what we do know. 

 

Even if there's a dividing line between fine and injured it seems far too easy to cross it given how much goes on in the swing. 

[TheDeanAbides]

9 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Hey, if it turns out our bodies are just so resilient that Niemann, Bennett, Sargent, and the rest somehow come out unscathed than as always, happy to eat crow. Nothing about our anatomy suggests to me someone can have that much torsion on their vertebrae and that much stretching of the connective tissue and nerve sheathe within for years and not have some negative outcome, though. Again, don't study that for a living so it's entirely possible there are nuances I'm unaware of and soon studies will come out showing that we're made of laffy taffy and it's no biggie, but until then I'll remain on the "don't do that" bus based on what we do know. 

 

Even if there's a dividing line between fine and injured it seems far too easy to cross it given how much goes on in the swing. 

My ex wife is a yoga teacher with a connective tissue disorder. She thought a proper golf swing was a contortion let alone some of these crazy moves! 

[bladehunter]

Well. I’ve played with this test on and off for days. Best I can tell I’m mid.   But I also have the same issue with trying clubs. After he first swing or test I catch myself trying to manipulate it.  No agenda.  Just trying to feel why.  No doubt it does something to the hips .  I also found that my thumbs are long and because they don’t bend backwards like some subjects do , I have a very hard time touching my right thumb to the base of my middle finger.  I have to close it all the way to get it down there.  But it very naturally goes right to the middle knuckle. With no bend. Who knows if that matters or not? 

[Nels55]

Latest video:

 

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Hey, if it turns out our bodies are just so resilient that Niemann, Bennett, Sargent, and the rest somehow come out unscathed than as always, happy to eat crow. Nothing about our anatomy suggests to me someone can have that much torsion on their vertebrae and that much stretching of the connective tissue and nerve sheathe within for years and not have some negative outcome, though. Again, don't study that for a living so it's entirely possible there are nuances I'm unaware of and soon studies will come out showing that we're made of laffy taffy and it's no biggie, but until then I'll remain on the "don't do that" bus based on what we do know. 

 

Even if there's a dividing line between fine and injured it seems far too easy to cross it given how much goes on in the swing. 

Oh i'm by no means saying all those guys are totally in the clear, just that Zalatoris had multiple additional elements going on they that didn't that explains his more severe issues. 

Edited January 14 by Valtiel

[MrHateCoffee]

On 1/7/2025 at 5:31 PM, ChrisSP said:

Personally, there are things about the upper core swing that I do find challenging. Most notable for me is the idea of pivoting around my front leg. While I tested using David Wright's system as an upper core player, if you know anything about Mike Adams' stuff, I'm also a rear post player. I'm also more of an under golfer with my trail hand where Upper Core promotes a weaker or neutral trail hand grip. That said, my swing today still incorporates many aspects of the upper core swing with a few tweaks that are more physically natural and seem to help me produce more consistent results.

 

This is my first time hearing of all this upper core stuff but similar to you, I was trying so hard to do a swing that left my hips open at impact.  I've also dived into Mike Adams stuff.  I'm a front post golfer, so I have no problem with pivoting around the lead leg but I also have a close to under grip with my trail hand...  I'm going to try some of this upper core stuff out and record it and see what happens.  I really wish a certified Wright Balance instructor was in my area (Atlanta

[Nels55]

Here is am explanation of the different cores:

 

[Nels55]

Larry Rinker explains what knocked him off the PGA tour:

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Larry Rinker explains what knocked him off the PGA tour:

 

Man, it could be a hundred other things, including "he just wasn't good enough."

[Pnwpingi210]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Larry Rinker explains what knocked him off the PGA tour:

 

😂😂😂😂

[virtuoso]

@Nels55You've contributed info from Rinker and Milo. Makes sense because their swings are almost clones of each other.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Man, it could be a hundred other things, including "he just wasn't good enough."

As I understand it he was playing on tour and making a living at it.  He tried to change his swing per the teaching at that time to make it look like an average tour player's swing and he was no longer good enough. 

[Nels55]

4 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

@Nels55You've contributed info from Rinker and Milo. Makes sense because their swings are almost clones of each other.

I endorse neither.  To be fair if someone measured out as lower core Rinker would teach that person something very similar to what Milo teaches. 

[GoGoErky]

8 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

I endorse neither.  To be fair if someone measured out as lower core Rinker would teach that person something very similar to what Milo teaches. 

Having been part of Milo’s online course and getting as well as reading feedback from him to other students he teaches one thing to all. He also has posted so much trash that contradicts what is known and misinterprets data, it’s almost laughable at this point.