Upper core awkwardness

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Rinker and Monte have both said that instruction that they got in their primes hurt their careers. 

 

Rinker's impact position with his hips nearly square at impact gets bashed here but maybe if he had done that in his prime he would have had more success.  Or maybe he was less upper core when he was younger and would have been a bit more open. 

 

At any rate it makes sense for a person to swing in the way that is best for their body to move.  Mike Adams and Doc Wright have both come up with systems to try to accomplish this.  My observation is that the two systems share common ground but also disagree in some areas so neither one is perfect.  But possibly they are a small step in the right direction. 

So Rinker would have won more on Tour if he had learned this sooner?

 

[Nels55]

19 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Just having the shaft go through the COM doesn't make a putter torque balanced about the lie angle axis despite what alot of folks believe. It will be zero torque about the vertical axis, but not the lie angle axis. However, it won't have a significant amount of residual torque about the lie angle and will likely still produce good results.

When I get the balance correct on one of my modified putters.  I can rest the putter shaft on a couple of straight edges and set the head in any position for instance toe up, face up, toe down and the putter will sit there.  The putter has no bias which I had assumed to mean that it was lie angle balanced? 

 

Torque balanced per Edel means that the putter will bias toe down which is fairly easy to do.

 

So my question is what am I missing?   LOL I do tend to misunderstand things on occasion. 

[ThinkingPlus]

13 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

When I get the balance correct on one of my modified putters.  I can rest the putter shaft on a couple of straight edges and set the head in any position for instance toe up, face up, toe down and the putter will sit there.  The putter has no bias which I had assumed to mean that it was lie angle balanced? 

 

Torque balanced per Edel means that the putter will bias toe down which is fairly easy to do.

 

So my question is what am I missing?   LOL I do tend to misunderstand things on occasion. 

A dynamic test is best. Swinging the putter back and forth while at the lie angle observing no rotation about the shaft. Basically, you need something like a L.A.B. Revealer or instrument the head with 3-axis accelerometers and record acceleration while swinging putter. It's fairly non-trivial.

[iacas]

59 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I have degrees in math and physics as you know. I don't have superstitions.

 

No lucky ball markers, don't prefer number 3 balls over number 1, or anything like that? If so, you're in a tiny, minuscule group. 🙂  Two of my degrees are medicinal chemistry and computer science… though maybe it's the French degree leading to an occasional superstition (I do step on cracks, but not the foul line on a baseball field, and I still position the remote differently depending on how the Steelers [not this year] or Penguins are doing, while being aware that it has no effect at all… but it's a little fun anyway).

 

 

13 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

A dynamic test is best. Swinging the putter back and forth while at the lie angle observing no rotation about the shaft. Basically, you need something like a L.A.B. Revealer or instrument the head with 3-axis accelerometers and record acceleration while swinging putter. It's fairly non-trivial.

 

As for why I chuckle at the LAB, well, it's OT for this topic. 😄 We don't putt with a marketing trick Revealer, though.

 

People play their way off the PGA Tour all the time. Many will assign blame somewhere. Some will even manage to do it correctly. Since we don't have access to time travel and parallel universes, we will never know if Rinker was actually "taught" off the Tour or not.

 

Edited July 27 by iacas
😉

[ThinkingPlus]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

No lucky ball markers, don't prefer number 3 balls over number 1, or anything like that? If so, you're in a tiny, minuscule group. 🙂  Two of my degrees are medicinal chemistry and computer science… though maybe it's the French degree leading to an occasional superstition (I do step on cracks, but not the foul line on a baseball field, and I still position the remote differently depending on how the Steelers [not this year] or Penguins are doing, while being aware that it has no effect at all… but it's a little fun anyway).

 

 

 

As for why I chuckle at the LAB, well, it's OT for this topic. 😄 We don't putt with a marketing trick Revealer, though.

 

People play their way off the PGA Tour all the time. Many will assign blame somewhere. Some will even manage to do it correctly. Since we don't have access to time travel and parallel universes, we will never know if Rinker was actually "taught" off the Tour or not.

 

The closest to a superstition I have is I believe in Murphy's Law. Most of the corollaries as well.

 

Complaining about old school instruction that we truly know is bad because of measured data, is valid. Complaining about validated swing instruction based on what pros actually have been measured to do starts getting a little squishy.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Complaining about old school instruction that we truly know is bad because of measured data, is valid. Complaining about validated swing instruction based on what pros actually have been measured to do starts getting a little squishy.

 

[Nels55]

4 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

A dynamic test is best. Swinging the putter back and forth while at the lie angle observing no rotation about the shaft. Basically, you need something like a L.A.B. Revealer or instrument the head with 3-axis accelerometers and record acceleration while swinging putter. It's fairly non-trivial.

Thanks for the info.  LOL I built one:

 

Double ball bearing setup on the top pivot and letting the shaft ride on the PVC on the bottom seems pretty low friction.  I will possibly put some oiled felt in there to match the LAB device at some point.  I find that my putters with lie angle at 79 degrees are pretty good.  Very slight tendency to open on the backswing.  I doubt that it is enough to effect my stroke.  I intend to make a video at some point maybe in a few weeks. 

 

At any rate it seems that a slight heel down bias would make my putters swing true.

[ThinkingPlus]

47 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Thanks for the info.  LOL I built one:

 

Double ball bearing setup on the top pivot and letting the shaft ride on the PVC on the bottom seems pretty low friction.  I will possibly put some oiled felt in there to match the LAB device at some point.  I find that my putters with lie angle at 79 degrees are pretty good.  Very slight tendency to open on the backswing.  I doubt that it is enough to effect my stroke.  I intend to make a video at some point maybe in a few weeks. 

 

At any rate it seems that a slight heel down bias would make my putters swing true.

At 79° they should be very good. You are fairly close to 90° where shaft through the COM would by default be torque free.

[NosajNeelik]

49 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Thanks for the info.  LOL I built one:

 

Double ball bearing setup on the top pivot and letting the shaft ride on the PVC on the bottom seems pretty low friction.  I will possibly put some oiled felt in there to match the LAB device at some point.  I find that my putters with lie angle at 79 degrees are pretty good.  Very slight tendency to open on the backswing.  I doubt that it is enough to effect my stroke.  I intend to make a video at some point maybe in a few weeks. 

 

At any rate it seems that a slight heel down bias would make my putters swing true.

Is this a Rinker putter? 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

At 79° they should be very good. You are fairly close to 90° where shaft through the COM would by default be torque free.

I confirmed the 90 degree rule a while back using a 90 degree putter on a swivel trying to test Bryson's dimple putting process.