Cobra King 3DP Tour

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

you also said the distance numbers were very inconsistent, which is bull and show you haven’t actually seen or tested them. 
 

that is a fact, it’s been tested and proven. 

They were inconsistent in dispersion cause they flew farther, more offline left and right, i got more ballspeed and height, resulting in more carry with less control (spin).

 

This is not bullxxxx, and if you read the thread you will see others that had similar problems in both testing them and playing them (a couple of people sold them for this reason)

 

 

[TheOverratedPhotog]

The only issue people have raised is the spin rate. 
 

The robot testing on this club had some of the tightest groupings ever. 
 

The spin testing on this club had the most consistent spin of any club on the market irrespective of where you hit on the face. I.e. the average spin across the face was more consistent than any other club which also resulted in more consistent grouping when it came to distance and left right dispersion
 

I can point you to the tests if you want, but I’d be wasting my time because you seem to be here for different reasons

Edited June 13 by TheOverratedPhotog

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, TheOverratedPhotog said:

The only issue people have raised is the spin rate. 
 

The robot testing on this club had some of the tightest groupings ever. 
 

The spin testing on this club had the most consistent spin of any club on the market irrespective of where you hit on the face. I.e. the average spin across the face was more consistent than any other club which also resulted in Entity grouping when it came to distance. 
 

I can point you to the tests if you want, but I’d be wasting my time because you seem to be here for different reasons

I said the spun too low for me, while maintaining ballspeed and launch on mishits.  This results in a wider dispersion than I would like.  How can I be more clear?
 

There are others than are a little higher speed and deloft the club that experienced the same thing.  Some sold the club cause of it.

 

i didn’t notice high variance in spin, nor did I claim it.  It was just low.  I was at about 5k spin, 135 peak higher, and 140ish( +/-2) ball speed with the stock 7 iron.

[m_w]

22 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

It’s unfortunate when you misuse a word or don’t know what a word means.  

"any belief held definitively and without the possibility of reform. Hollow = Hollow to you so i believe the word very much applies.

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, m_w said:

"any belief held definitively and without the possibility of reform. Hollow = Hollow to you so i believe the word very much applies.

[Pnwpingi210]

5 minutes ago, m_w said:

"any belief held definitively and without the possibility of reform. Hollow = Hollow to you so i believe the word very much applies.

You’re right.

 

please continue to decide how we reform the usage of a word based on your opinion.  No more argument from me.

Edited June 13 by Pnwpingi210

[GwrxMod]

Multiple posts removed. A reminder about forum rules:

 

While debating and discussion are fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks, or purposeless inflammatory posts. 

 

Edited June 14 by GwrxMod

[petep52]

Great discussion guys. Interesting pics and comments. What I just can’t wrap my mind around though is if these are hollow or not. So hopefully we can shift the discussion to that and get that cleared up. 
 

TIA. 
 

 

[noblesin]

What nonsense.. lol

[TheOverratedPhotog]

2 hours ago, petep52 said:

Great discussion guys. Interesting pics and comments. What I just can’t wrap my mind around though is if these are hollow or not. So hopefully we can shift the discussion to that and get that cleared up. 
 

TIA. 
 

 

Not sure if it’s clear in the pictures but It’s a 3D matrix, so it feels and sounds solid. The mesh like frame in the photos occurs front to back as well, even if it’s not clear. 
 

There is a big difference. An empty box has no rigidity, while a 3D mesh does

[Morry]

Painful

[SwingBlade]

16 hours ago, MountainMan said:

I would argue these are semi-hollow. The construction with the lattice connecting everything is very different than other hollow body irons and is not the same as adding foam. 
 

 

I agree the 3DP's are not remotely similar to a foam filled cavity.  But, with respect, what is semi-hollow?   It is steel.  Period.  The faces are not wavy or rippling.  They are just as solid feeling as my MP33's and my CB 57's.  Difference is that they are significantly more forgiving.  Because they are so forgiving, they are also very consistent in height, distance, and dispersion. 

Edited June 14 by SwingBlade

[petep52]

2 hours ago, SwingBlade said:

I agree the 3DP's are not remotely similar to a foam filled cavity.  But, with respect, what is semi-hollow?   It is steel.  Period.  The faces are not wavy or rippling.  They are just as solid feeling as my MP33's and my CB 57's.  Difference is that they are significantly more forgiving.  Because they are so forgiving, they are also very consistent in height, distance, and dispersion. 

 

so I have a set of Mizuno pro 225s and the 8i to 4i I have my son that are hollow and hot. They don’t spin much. Would the cobras have better distance control then a Mizuno pro 225 like technology?

[MountainMan]

3 hours ago, SwingBlade said:

I agree the 3DP's are not remotely similar to a foam filled cavity.  But, with respect, what is semi-hollow?   It is steel.  Period.  The faces are not wavy or rippling.  They are just as solid feeling as my MP33's and my CB 57's.  Difference is that they are significantly more forgiving.  Because they are so forgiving, they are also very consistent in height, distance, and dispersion. 

The Semi-Hollow part would be all the space on the inside between the lattice. Where the weight is removed. 
 

[SwingBlade]

22 hours ago, MountainMan said:

The Semi-Hollow part would be all the space on the inside between the lattice. Where the weight is removed. 
 

Again, with respect, I have to completely disagree with this use of the term Semi-Hollow to describe any aspect of 3DP (or LIMIT3D) head design and printing.  

 

For example, the Makino 88-B3 MB blades, which are pretty amazing, are described as having Semi-Hollow heads.  To accomplish that, they drill a hole in the base of the head (a long small diameter hollow cavity) to slightly enhance forgiveness, feel, and distance.  There are no filler materials. 
 

The 3DP lattice printing process creates optimally located and spaced void sections which have absolutely  nothing whatsoever to do with enhancing forgiveness, feel, distance or face deflections.  Quite the opposite actually.  The lattice structure is not "hollowed out" and it has one single purpose and that is to maintain stability and rigidity of the face while optimizing weight reductions that can be better employed, among other design parameters, as large titanium plugs in the heel and toe.  The weight is not "removed".   Period.  

 

There is zero engineering logic to purposely designing and allowing dozens of mini face deflection points amongst the lattice structure points of rigidity.  

Edited June 15 by SwingBlade

[MountainMan]

7 minutes ago, SwingBlade said:

Again, with respect, I have to completely disagree with this use of the term Semi-Hollow to describe any aspect of 3DP (or LIMIT3D) head design and printing.  

 

For example, the Makino 88-B3 MB blades, which are pretty amazing, are described as having Semi-Hollow heads.  To accomplish that, they drill a hole in the base of the head (a long small diameter hollow cavity) to slightly enhance forgiveness, feel, and distance.  There are no filler materials. 
 

The 3DP lattice printing process creates optimally located and spaced void sections which have absolutely  nothing whatsoever to do with enhancing forgiveness, feel, distance or face deflections.  Quite the opposite actually.  The lattice structure is not "hollowed out" and it has one single purpose and that is to maintain stability and rigidity of the face while optimizing weight reductions that can be better employed, among other design parameters, as large titanium plugs in the heel and toe.

 

There is zero engineering logic to purposely designing and allowing dozens of mini face deflection points amongst the lattice structure points of rigidity.  

Maybe I needed to find a better term?
 

The space between the lattice is hollow. The lattice is not. Perhaps I am being too literal. 

 

It shares characteristics with both hollow and solid irons and is different from both as well. Kind of its own category there isn’t really anything like it. 

[SwingBlade]

39 minutes ago, MountainMan said:

Maybe I needed to find a better term?
 

The space between the lattice is hollow. The lattice is not. Perhaps I am being too literal. 

 

It shares characteristics with both hollow and solid irons and is different from both as well. Kind of its own category there isn’t really anything like it. 

Yes & no.  😉.  We are maybe getting closer.  Actually, you were never saying the heads are hollow as a couple of other folks kept insisting.  
I recognize now that you were trying to come up with a different term than "hollow" which is beneficial.  
 

I can only say to the other "hollowites" that hollow heads generally have the design intent of reducing weight and enabling face deflection.  A filler material is then added to the cavity to fine tune sound and feel and optimize the deflection to enhance forgiveness, launch, and distance.  
 

In the printed 3DP heads, yes there are "spaces" between the lattice structures but referring to them as "hollows" incorrectly implies that they have a physical purpose beyond structural support.  I understand the lattice was optimized to yield the desired sound and vibration qualities to better approximate what a typical traditional forged blade feels like, but we all know that every makers blade head design has slightly different feel and sound qualities compared to other OEMs designs.  
 

Put another way, hollows have the specific intent to optimize desired performance parameters of forgiveness and feel and distance (deflection) which is not a primary mission or design intent of the 3DP lattice substructures. 

Thanks...

 

Note:   I just some feedback that there is apparently some unknown type of filler material in the Makino heads. 
 

 

[Morry]

ok

back to experience sharing rather than opinion 

 

coming from King Tour.....these are for sure a bit hotter and more forgiving - no question 

but

the 500-750 rpms of spin I lose consistently on every club is too big a price for me 

 

I need the spin to stabilize the ball flight amongst other reasons 

it can't make up for it 

 

No-one wanted to love them more than I, but,......staying in the King Tours

 

they need to address the spin and then this is a Knockout Club 

 

 

[petep52]

Why would spin be low in hollow body irons, and high in king tours which do have materiel removed behind the face?

[TheOverratedPhotog]

3 minutes ago, petep52 said:

Why would spin be low in hollow body irons, and high in king tours which do have materiel removed behind the face?

 

Tungsten in golf club design can influence spin, primarily through its impact on the club's center of gravity (CG) and moment of inertia (MOI). By strategically placing tungsten, often in the sole or perimeter of the clubhead, manufacturers can lower the CG and increase MOI, leading to higher launch angles and potentially lower spin rates on certain shots. This can result in a more penetrating ball flight and greater distance, particularly with lower-lofted clubs. 

 

[petep52]

1 minute ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

Tungsten in golf club design can influence spin, primarily through its impact on the club's center of gravity (CG) and moment of inertia (MOI). By strategically placing tungsten, often in the sole or perimeter of the clubhead, manufacturers can lower the CG and increase MOI, leading to higher launch angles and potentially lower spin rates on certain shots. This can result in a more penetrating ball flight and greater distance, particularly with lower-lofted clubs. 

 

I think the King Tours have tungsten, perimeter weighting, etc. but they spin a lot. Maybe the face acts differently at contact affecting spin. 

[TheOverratedPhotog]

Just now, petep52 said:

I think the King Tours have tungsten, perimeter weighting, etc. but they spin a lot. Maybe the face acts differently at contact affecting spin. 

 

Would likely depend on where the tungsten is located. The 3DP also have 100 grams more tungsten than a normal iron due to the weight saved with the lattice. 

[petep52]

Just now, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

Would likely depend on where the tungsten is located. The 3DP also have 100 grams more tungsten than a normal iron due to the weight saved with the lattice. 

ahhhh. I had no idea it was that much tungsten 

[TheOverratedPhotog]

2 minutes ago, petep52 said:

ahhhh. I had no idea it was that much tungsten 

 

I'm wrong, it's not an extra 100 grams, its 100 grams in total

 

From their website: The discretionary weight savings allowed up to 100g of tungsten to be positioned low in the heel and toe, resulting in the perfect blend of a compact blade shape with a low CG and high MOI that mirrors a game improvement iron.

 

Game improvement irons typically have low spin so I would guess it's mirroring that to some degree. 

 

I don't have issues with the spin personally. It was 500rpm lower than my T150's but I was high spin anyway. I recovered some of the spin by using Axioms which I prefer because of my indoor sim 

[petep52]

1 minute ago, TheOverratedPhotog said:

 

I'm wrong, it's not an extra 100 grams, its 100 grams in total

 

From their website: The discretionary weight savings allowed up to 100g of tungsten to be positioned low in the heel and toe, resulting in the perfect blend of a compact blade shape with a low CG and high MOI that mirrors a game improvement iron.

 

Game improvement irons typically have low spin so I would guess it's mirroring that to some degree. 

 

I don't have issues with the spin personally. It was 500rpm lower than my T150's but I was high spin anyway. I recovered some of the spin by using Axioms which I prefer because of my indoor sim 

I’m not planning on getting them. I have King Tours like I said that are nice. I’m just confused why loft for loft one iron would spin that much less than another. 

[TheOverratedPhotog]

Just now, petep52 said:

I’m not planning on getting them. I have King Tours like I said that are nice. I’m just confused why loft for loft one iron would spin that much less than another. 

Low CG is a big influencer. My understanding is this is the same with drivers

[JoeFrigo]

8 hours ago, Morry said:

ok

back to experience sharing rather than opinion 

 

coming from King Tour.....these are for sure a bit hotter and more forgiving - no question 

but

the 500-750 rpms of spin I lose consistently on every club is too big a price for me 

 

I need the spin to stabilize the ball flight amongst other reasons 

it can't make up for it 

 

No-one wanted to love them more than I, but,......staying in the King Tours

 

they need to address the spin and then this is a Knockout Club 

 

 

the king tours are phenomenal.

 

Ive only played 1 round with the 3DP's but i did not have an issue holding greens with the spin or any enhanced flyers. Im pretty shallow and have always been high launch/low spin so I was nervous how these would play after seeing the numbers indoors on a simulator. I still prefer my MP 243's but I can say without a doubt the 3DP's are insanely more forgiving than any other blade or CB ive tried and Ill be keeping mine

Did you try a different golf ball?

[kiw1982]

I just bought the irons (5–PW), and initial testing on my monitor has been great.
I expected to be surprised by how they handled mishits, but what really caught me off guard was the peak height and spin—especially compared to the specs.

I’ve read that low spin is a known issue with these irons, but I’m not a naturally high-spin player, and I’m still getting more than enough spin, which is surprising (in a good way).

Now I have a question about the 4-iron and AW.

Normally, I wouldn’t even consider this if it were a typical iron set where individual clubs cost around $170. But in this case, adding the 4i and AW would run me over $700 with tax, which makes me hesitate.

1. 4-iron: I’m slowing down a bit, and I had pretty much decided I wouldn’t need a 4-iron again. I’m currently settled with my UW (21°). But after reading so many of you say “the 4i is amazing,” I’m second-guessing myself.

2. AW: I usually prefer AWs from the iron set. I don’t use my 50° wedge much around the green—it’s mainly for full swings or controlled 50% shots. For those of you who have the AW from this set, how do you like it?

[Morry]

1 hour ago, JoeFrigo said:

the king tours are phenomenal.

 

Ive only played 1 round with the 3DP's but i did not have an issue holding greens with the spin or any enhanced flyers. Im pretty shallow and have always been high launch/low spin so I was nervous how these would play after seeing the numbers indoors on a simulator. I still prefer my MP 243's but I can say without a doubt the 3DP's are insanely more forgiving than any other blade or CB ive tried and Ill be keeping mine

Did you try a different golf ball?

I did, but in order to get better, but not even equivalent spin I had to use an 'X' ball that I don't enjoy playing , chipping or putting since they are much harder 

 

It cut the deficit in half, but with a price I am not comfortable making for the benefit

 

 

[TheFrozenChef]

Has anyone had issues with getting these built to a lighter swingweight?

 

About to put Axiom 105s into these over the next day or two, want the 7 iron to come out to around D0. Using the jumbomax zenlites.

 

I've got butt weights but wondering if I should cut it down by 1/4 to get it to that swingweight.