Stuck / steep / narrow...

[jaffabell]

Hi all

 

Hoping for some constructive feedback from some of the forum elders if at all possible. 

 

Not played a whole lot in 2024 and only a few range sessions in the last few months. Managed to get out tonight to hit a few and got a video (I know the angle isn't ideal but it's the best I could do).

 

Struggled with early extension a lot, it's not as bad as it was but on bad swings I get mega stuck, hang back and zero rotation. I really want to get the backswing tighter, with a shorter and wider armswing. Im thinking my trail arm looks a bit too far behind me and overly bent at the top?

 

Staying in posture on the way down and through would be ideal too, as my lower back was feeling it tonight on some of my poor swings when I was hanging back and goat humping... 

 

Any feedback and drills would be appreciated. I view this forum daily and finally taking the plunge to bear all...

[MonteScheinblum]

Your elbow and wrists need to unload better.  They aren’t and the right hip is firing out and under to compensate 

 

If the target is 12, you are bringing the club to 6 and need 7 or 8.

 

Put a head cover on the ground where you can see it out of the peripheral vision while looking at the ball and swing toward that before the ball.

[virtuoso]

Watch your right heel after P3...there be-ith the origin story of the problem.

[KD1]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Watch your right heel after P3...there be-ith the origin story of the problem.

 

*sheepishly raises hand* can you elaborate on what you're seeing and what it's causing ... for those moron kids in the back of the class?

[golferdude54]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Watch your right heel after P3...there be-ith the origin story of the problem.

It might be caused by the gigantic heel pad of his shoes that’s designed for walking forgiveness.
 

Wearing actual golf shoes or just minimal drop shoes in general when swinging feels so different from the “cloud” shoes.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, KD1 said:

*sheepishly raises hand* can you elaborate on what you're seeing and what it's causing ... for those moron kids in the back of the class?

 

 

What do you see there? Where do you think pressure should be in that foot from P3 to P4?

[KD1]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

 

What do you see there? Where do you think pressure should be in that foot from P3 to P4?

 

I know its supposed to be in the heels. But what does it being in the toes tell us? What's are the consequences? I just want to connect the dots.

[virtuoso]

27 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

It might be caused by the gigantic heel pad of his shoes that’s designed for walking forgiveness.
 

Wearing actual golf shoes or just minimal drop shoes in general when swinging feels so different from the “cloud” shoes.

The shoes aren’t the cause but they are henchmen aiding and abetting. Like he really needs wedges that are pushing him out toward his toes. But the fix is way more than just taking off the shoes.

[virtuoso]

4 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

I know its supposed to be in the heels. But what does it being in the toes tell us? What's are the consequences? I just want to connect the dots.

It means he is not going to move his pelvis properly. He is setting up to do a pirouette on the ball of his right foot. You can only rotate on that right foot so long before you have to start backing up out of it as you tilt the shoulders.  The steep, narrow arm swing to get to the ball is all you have left to save it.

[TheDeanAbides]

9 hours ago, virtuoso said:

It means he is not going to move his pelvis properly. He is setting up to do a pirouette on the ball of his right foot. You can only rotate on that right foot so long before you have to start backing up out of it as you tilt the shoulders.  The steep, narrow arm swing to get to the ball is all you have left to save it.

It's another example of how amazing our body is at trying to find balance in creative ways. They're usually destructive to a powerful and efficient golf swing, but I always find those compensations so fascinating despite that. 

 

OP, when you get this sorted you're going to feel so structurally planted into the inside of that right heel at the top that it'll feel like this swing was performed on an ice rink. 

Edited January 29 by TheDeanAbides

[jaffabell]

Great feedback all, its why I love this place.

 

It makes sense regarding the weight on my toes. I have been trying to get my weight more away from my heels and clearly went too far with it. Also been trying to tuck my pelvis in a bit which may also be getting my weight too far forward without realising. Having looked again I can see that my right heel is off the ground from start to finish 😅

 

Also good shout about the gym trainers, they do have a bit squishy heel pad and they do make you tip forward a bit...

 

So in theory, with some reps and work, if I get my weight more neutral at set up and in to my inside right heel in the backswing - it should naturally stop my right hip shooting out towards the ball and help me get back to the left side a bit easier in transition? 

 

Also, I know I need to work on getting wider at the top with my right arm, so when all combined it could help me unload my arms and wrists as Monte says, to get more space on the way down?

 

Monte - funnily enough I was trying to have that feeling tonight on the range of keeping my back to target, and then tried to get hands working to 7 oclock in transition as you say. I did it well on some shots and others not so much, but can see how the issues with my weight placement can make that move harder to do, as my brain would want to go against that on the way down to counteract my weight shift and pelvis issues?

 

On a separate note to all this, even with a neutral grip I have always struggled with a strong clubface at the top, but thinking my right elbow and wrist movements may be the main culprit for that.

[TheDeanAbides]

Remember, you don't want your weight on your heels at address, but look at how the body works to create coil and torque. You have to coil into the inside rear of the right foot to create a balanced and powerful backswing. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, jaffabell said:

It makes sense regarding the weight on my toes. I have been trying to get my weight more away from my heels and clearly went too far with it.

 

Starting (at P1) with the weight toward the front of the arches is important as it allows your center of pressure in each foot to move throughout the swing:

 

 

This can then move similarly to how the pelvis moves (I've not showed any sway here, as it's minimal ~P3-~P4):

 

 

It's important that we start forward toward the front of our arches because we're going to end up there when we begin to move more quickly and athletically (during the downswing), but setting up over the front of the arches also gives us "room" to move the weight/pressure toward the trail ankle/heel in the backswing.

 

If the weight is already back there, people shift their weight forward, as they have no capacity or room to move farther back. Thus, you see the trail side "staying in place" and the left side coming forward. Then you see the opposite on the downswing: the trail side moves forward, while the lead side stays in place (unless you're Sergio Garcia, and even he still moves the trail side toward the heel some).

 

1 hour ago, jaffabell said:

Also been trying to tuck my pelvis in a bit which may also be getting my weight too far forward without realising.

 

Weight front of feet at P1 is good. But it has to MOVE from there throughout the swing. ~P3.5 in the trail heel, ~P8 in the lead heel. (Rarely truly "in the heel" but toward the heel side of the foot.)

 

1 hour ago, jaffabell said:

So in theory, with some reps and work, if I get my weight more neutral at set up and in to my inside right heel in the backswing

 

Setup might be fine. I wouldn't move the weight back much at setup.

 

1 hour ago, jaffabell said:

it should naturally stop my right hip shooting out towards the ball and help me get back to the left side a bit easier in transition?

 

The issue is that your right hip doesn't gain the depth it should on the backswing. It kind of "stays there."

 

 

P.S. Your camera angle isn't good.

Edited January 29 by iacas

[jaffabell]

Cheers for that @iacas that all makes sense and gives me something to ponder and focus on. I can see that I am on my right tiptoe at the top of the backswing - little to no depth. It makes me wonder how I hit it fairly far from that position 😂 but no wonder it goes so wrong if I don't quite time it all right!

 

I had to balance my phone on the very edge of the dividing wall behind the range bay, annoyingly I bought a phone tripod thing and forgot to put it in my golf bag, doh! The next time I go i'll try and remember it and get a down the line shot. Face on might be tricky as not much space. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

18 minutes ago, jaffabell said:

annoyingly I bought a phone tripod thing and forgot to put it in my golf bag, doh! The next time I go i'll try and remember it and get a down the line shot. Face on might be tricky as not much space. 

 

Yeah, I got some bad video until I pulled the trigger on a tripod. For ~$15 it's made it easy.

 

Remember the placement for DTL--the camera should be at hand height (at address) and directly behind the hands looking at the target. 

 

Face on is the same (hand height and directly at the hands looking through you. It can be tricky to get on a crowded range, as you really need to set it up on the next stall/mat to get enough room. I usually look for areas of the range that are less busy where the stall next to the one I pick is not in use. Alternatively, if you can pick one where the person using it is somewhat low on the number of balls they have left, you might be able to get some video after they leave before anyone else shows up to use it. Unless you're at some super-busy range where people are waiting on stalls to open up, of course. 

[unskinnybop99]

16 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Your elbow and wrists need to unload better.  They aren’t and the right hip is firing out and under to compensate 

 

If the target is 12, you are bringing the club to 6 and need 7 or 8.

 

Put a head cover on the ground where you can see it out of the peripheral vision while looking at the ball and swing toward that before the ball.

Sometimes I push the ball to the right (right handed) when I vision 7,8...or go extreme 9. Do you recommend more ulnar deviation combined with lead arm supination? More body rotation? 

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, unskinnybop99 said:

Sometimes I push the ball to the right (right handed) when I vision 7,8...or go extreme 9. Do you recommend more ulnar deviation combined with lead arm supination? More body rotation? 

Yes

[Wolfhammer]

 

On 1/28/2025 at 5:28 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Your elbow and wrists need to unload better.  They aren’t and the right hip is firing out and under to compensate 

 

If the target is 12, you are bringing the club to 6 and need 7 or 8.

 

Put a head cover on the ground where you can see it out of the peripheral vision while looking at the ball and swing toward that before the ball.

Super interesting. So put the headcover behind/diagonal to trail heel?

 

Edited February 1 by Wolfhammer
Pic

[MonteScheinblum]

Yes

[jaffabell]

Ok guys, managed to get to the range tonight. 1st time hitting balls in weeks, only been able to do some positional stuff and feels in the garden.

 

I was consciously trying to set up less in the toes and weight more on the balls of my feet. On the way back I have been trying to go back a bit straighter and steeper, and less inside and rolly. I'm still coming inside a bit so that will take time I know. 

 

It's the top of my backswing that is the issue still. My right arm gets folded so much, it must be 100 degrees of more if measured. My club runs on a bit from there which I hate, and then pitches steep. 

 

I was trying really hard to hold back to target in transition and throw to 7pm ala Monte but I feel like my backswing is making that harder to achieve? I really want my armswing to get shorter, wider with less radial hinge. Think Homa, Tom Kim. I really want that right arm straighter.

 

Would appreciate some thoughts / drills / feels that you think are relevant, also any training aids that I could use to engrain feels and positions. I have the smart ball, prosendr, prosendr sphere, the sure golf connection sphere with the rods... Just haven't been able to really use any yet!! I'm a sicko I know.

 

 

[jaffabell]

4 iron

 

@MonteScheinblum @Valtiel @iacas @TheDeanAbides @virtuoso appreciate your input fellas to stop me going down anymore rabbit holes 🫡

 

 

[jaffabell]

FYI I was really struggling to stop that right hip firing forward, tried everything. Even a wedge under my right heel. Really want to get rid of that. My lower back was feeling it tonight. 

[iacas]

My feedback is not something you will love: I don’t generally provide feedback with bad camera angles. Even tougher with regular speed video.

[jaffabell]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

My feedback is not something you will love: I don’t generally provide feedback with bad camera angles. Even tougher with regular speed video.

I can slow it down not a problem. What's up with the camera angle? I think my phone tripod can go a bit higher if that's the issue, it was my 1st time using it tonight. It's an improvement on my original video anyways.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, jaffabell said:

I can slow it down not a problem. What's up with the camera angle? I think my phone tripod can go a bit higher if that's the issue, it was my 1st time using it tonight. It's an improvement on my original video anyways.

 

I can't speak for others, but I like:

• wrist height
• through the wrists
• parallel or perpendicular to the target line

Your camera appears to be higher and well to the right (not quite out at the ball, but halfway or so).

[virtuoso]

3 hours ago, jaffabell said:

FYI I was really struggling to stop that right hip firing forward, tried everything. Even a wedge under my right heel. Really want to get rid of that. My lower back was feeling it tonight. 

You mean a wedge under the ball of your right foot, correct?

[jaffabell]

6 hours ago, virtuoso said:

You mean a wedge under the ball of your right foot, correct?

Sorry no I was meaning getting a lob wedge and standing on it, with it under my right heel. Goal is to try keep it there till after impact. It didn't work, so my right heel and hip are firing to compensate for something 

[jaffabell]

Here's a slowed down 7 iron. Next time I'll try further back, there's not much room at this range.

 

 

 

[iacas]

I will say even from this angle, you can see these things.

 

[jaffabell]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

I will say even from this angle, you can see these things.

 

I see many things from that angle that I hate 😅

 

So could it be that i'm not getting my weight back in to my trail heel at the end of backswing? I have zoomed in and I think I can see a tiny gap under my right heel, where in theory my right heel should be fully planted with loads of pressure at that point yeah? Maybe its me still keeping weight on toes too much.

 

I will say I was trying to get taller on the backswing, and maybe by doing so I have early extended on backswing?

 

My closed clubface and overrun at the top is a frustration to me, I don't even have too strong a grip. When doing slow swings I often find that my right heel pad comes off the grip, and clubface strong. I'm wondering if I am getting too much radial at the top which is causing this issue (which may also be stopping me from keeping that trail arm extended and wider)