OEM’s producing Clone clubs and shafts…how do you feel about it?

[sleuth]

I've known about old clubs being sold past its life, but I never really knew it had different technology. I think I first noticed this with the TM RBZ over a decade ago. It had a slightly different color, font, etc. I figured they scaled production on an old model and was able to lower costs. So at first I was indifferent to this post.

 

Now I'm reading the tech is actually different, and I even looked one up from a reputable retailer. If you read the product description...

Quote

The Callaway Rogue ST '24 Max Driver unleashes your full potential on the golf course with exceptional speed and distance. Featuring advanced Jailbreak Speed Frame technology, this driver enhances stability and maximizes energy transfer, giving you unrivaled power in every swing. 

 

I looked up a couple other retailers, and not everyone has the same description. So the misinformation can vary based on where you're shopping. I read some posts and saw car models being mentioned, and I think the biggest difference is that when you're shopping at a golf retail store they don't have a specs or features list sheet showing the specs. I know there's a lot of posts here suggesting it's the consumers fault and they shouldn't be so naive, be an educated consumer, etc. but that shouldn't defend the manufacturer. Usually product descriptions come from the vendor, so if Scheel's messed up are there others? The facts, to me, are pretty clear: two different products look the same, in-store they don't have a specs sheet, and to differentiate the products they added a '24' to the name. It just screams manipulation.

 

Have we gotten to a point where we can no longer take anything at face value and must question everything? That's a pretty crappy world to live in.

[BallerNate]

2 hours ago, sleuth said:

I've known about old clubs being sold past its life, but I never really knew it had different technology. I think I first noticed this with the TM RBZ over a decade ago. It had a slightly different color, font, etc. I figured they scaled production on an old model and was able to lower costs. So at first I was indifferent to this post.

 

Now I'm reading the tech is actually different, and I even looked one up from a reputable retailer. If you read the product description...

 

I looked up a couple other retailers, and not everyone has the same description. So the misinformation can vary based on where you're shopping. I read some posts and saw car models being mentioned, and I think the biggest difference is that when you're shopping at a golf retail store they don't have a specs or features list sheet showing the specs. I know there's a lot of posts here suggesting it's the consumers fault and they shouldn't be so naive, be an educated consumer, etc. but that shouldn't defend the manufacturer. Usually product descriptions come from the vendor, so if Scheel's messed up are there others? The facts, to me, are pretty clear: two different products look the same, in-store they don't have a specs sheet, and to differentiate the products they added a '24' to the name. It just screams manipulation.

 

Have we gotten to a point where we can no longer take anything at face value and must question everything? That's a pretty crappy world to live in.

Well said. That’s why I started this topic, and definitely believe it should be in the Equipment section to have the broadest reach.

 

The OEM’s aren’t spreading the information (not listed on their websites), the Retailers aren’t all spreading correct information, and we’re not allowed to spread the information here on WRX either?

 

It’s shady all-round man…this whole thing stinks!! 🤮🤮

 

Edited February 5 by BallerNate

[BallerNate]

3 hours ago, mister2cool said:

There is literally another thread 7 lines down from yours talking about this exact same thing

Yeah, this topic was created in the Equipment section because I really believe this is an important topic for discussion.

 

If this Forum is supposed to be about sharing ideas and exchanging information, then how is this not an important topic for discussion in the main part of the Forum?

 

The other topic regarding the “Rogue ST Max 24” is also very important, and many people on that thread were also vocal that it should be in the Equipment section also (that one was moved by moderators also).

 

But for this one I was very careful in the wording to not make it seem like an attack on Callaway, and instead made it a broader discussion about all OEM’s that have produced and distributed clones/stripped down clubs and shafts.

 

Edited February 5 by BallerNate

[Old Tom Morris]

What about other manufacturers?

Titleist ?

Ping?

Mizuno?

[BallerNate]

44 minutes ago, Old Tom Morris said:

What about other manufacturers?

Titleist ?

Ping?

Mizuno?

I’ve only heard about Callaway. TaylorMade, and Cobra doing it from everything I’ve gathered here on WRX.

 

Anyone else heard of any other OEM’s releasing clones/knock-offs?

[Puttersaurus Rex]

8 hours ago, BallerNate said:

I’ve only heard about Callaway. TaylorMade, and Cobra doing it from everything I’ve gathered here on WRX.

 

Anyone else heard of any other OEM’s releasing clones/knock-offs?

Technically clones and knock-offs would be made by a separate company than the OEM.  When OEMs do it, it is called dividing your product line into different market segments.

 

Callaway also does this with their box sets.  Don’t forget Wilson and Ping as well.  They also sell starter sets.

[BallerNate]

11 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Technically clones and knock-offs would be made by a separate company than the OEM.  When OEMs do it, it is called dividing your product line into different market segments.

 

Callaway also does this with their box sets.  Don’t forget Wilson and Ping as well.  They also sell starter sets.

Definition of Clone doesn’t say who is doing the copying.
 

To my eye, what is happening is Callaway making an identical copy of the Rogue ST Max without the performance technology: 

[cassel191919]

10 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

What about other manufacturers?

Titleist ?

Ping?

Mizuno?

Nope, only the ones trying to milk you of every penny every year.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

To my eye, what is happening is Callaway making an identical copy of the Rogue ST Max without the performance technology:

It cannot be "identical" if it doesn't have the "performance technology".

 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

29 minutes ago, cassel191919 said:

Nope, only the ones trying to milk you of every penny every year.

Which is every OEM, because "gasp" their goal is to maximize profits.

[Socrates]

Stores/Retailers don't get a 'sheet' of product descriptions that they use for clubs on their website.  They usually go to a web page and copy the description from the OEM site and use it.  Scheels likely couldn't find a listing for the product on the Callaway site and someone just used something close.  Was it a mistake or deception?

 

This product was likely created to sell at a 'Costco' and shouldn't have made it's way to Golftown or any other major retailer that sells the OEM's main product.  Knowing how  GT works, they can't stand it if someone has a product they can't get.  They will do almost anything to get that product and sell it.  Most of the blame should go to them.   At least the product description on the GT website is accurate.

 

But again, one should question if a new club is suddenly several hundred dollars less than they were.  One question, "Hey, how come these are so cheap?" could have saved a lot of grief.

 

Buy something without checking until later and then realize that was a bad decision.  We've all done it.  

[Pnwpingi210]

26 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Stores/Retailers don't get a 'sheet' of product descriptions that they use for clubs on their website.  They usually go to a web page and copy the description from the OEM site and use it.  Scheels likely couldn't find a listing for the product on the Callaway site and someone just used something close.  Was it a mistake or deception?

 

This product was likely created to sell at a 'Costco' and shouldn't have made it's way to Golftown or any other major retailer that sells the OEM's main product.  Knowing how  GT works, they can't stand it if someone has a product they can't get.  They will do almost anything to get that product and sell it.  Most of the blame should go to them.   At least the product description on the GT website is accurate.

 

But again, one should question if a new club is suddenly several hundred dollars less than they were.  One question, "Hey, how come these are so cheap?" could have saved a lot of grief.

 

Buy something without checking until later and then realize that was a bad decision.  We've all done it.  

Roger Dunn had these too, which means they are likely in all world wide golf shops.

 

as to they why are these so cheap?  It’s because the driver, or atleast the driver this for all practical purposes is mimicking is 3 years old.  Let me say that again so it’s not lost or confusing or ignored.  It’s 3 years old.  Dicks is selling the 3 year old driver brand new in packaging for the same price.  That’s why people are confused.   
 

I could see your point if somebody picked up a eylte max for 359 new…..

Edited February 5 by Pnwpingi210

[Mitchell]

This reads as more of a marketing/display issue from retailer than from Callaway as manufacturers have been issuing entry-level clubs under similar naming as previous, older lines for years. If manufacturer was marketing a product

themselves as being same exactly the same as original release, then personally would see as more of an issue. 

[sleuth]

25 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Stores/Retailers don't get a 'sheet' of product descriptions that they use for clubs on their website.  They usually go to a web page and copy the description from the OEM site and use it.  Scheels likely couldn't find a listing for the product on the Callaway site and someone just used something close.  Was it a mistake or deception?

 

This product was likely created to sell at a 'Costco' and shouldn't have made it's way to Golftown or any other major retailer that sells the OEM's main product.  Knowing how  GT works, they can't stand it if someone has a product they can't get.  They will do almost anything to get that product and sell it.  Most of the blame should go to them.   At least the product description on the GT website is accurate.

 

But again, one should question if a new club is suddenly several hundred dollars less than they were.  One question, "Hey, how come these are so cheap?" could have saved a lot of grief.

 

Buy something without checking until later and then realize that was a bad decision.  We've all done it.  

Not a literal piece of paper. The product description and specs can be sourced from a manufacturer and you can build API's to integrate them with your ERP and e-Comm store.

 

This is 2025 and not a small business. I'd be shocked if Scheel's has not built some sort of infrastructure and automation for their inventory and website.

[cassel191919]

1 hour ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Which is every OEM, because "gasp" their goal is to maximize profits.

Is it, I didn't think Titleist released a new driver every year. I must have missed it.

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, cassel191919 said:

Is it, I didn't think Titleist released a new driver every year. I must have missed it.

I guess it depends on how you looks at it.

 

selling the same product for a longer duration at a premium price with without offering discounts generally reduces you production costs and increases your margins.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

30 minutes ago, cassel191919 said:

Is it, I didn't think Titleist released a new driver every year. I must have missed it.

They still sell clubs with a goal of profit.  Just a different product/sales strategy than the OEMs that release ~7 drivers a year.

[Esage]

3 hours ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Technically clones and knock-offs would be made by a separate company than the OEM.  When OEMs do it, it is called dividing your product line into different market segments.

 

Callaway also does this with their box sets.  Don’t forget Wilson and Ping as well.  They also sell starter sets.

Ping sells starter sets ? Link 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

14 minutes ago, Esage said:

Ping sells starter sets ? Link 

For kids, but still a separate market segment.  ProdiG

 

https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/juniors/prodi-g-junior-golf-club-set

 

 

 

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, sleuth said:

Not a literal piece of paper. The product description and specs can be sourced from a manufacturer and you can build API's to integrate them with your ERP and e-Comm store.

 

This is 2025 and not a small business. I'd be shocked if Scheel's has not built some sort of infrastructure and automation for their inventory and website.

And they should be checking for accuracy of information.

[PuffyC]

This intentionally deceptive practice is just gross. The fake “made for” shafts are bad enough but you throw in OEMs making and selling what is essentially their own clone heads and I wonder how it’s even legal.

 

FWIW, I regularly play with 6 other guys and only one knew that “made for” shafts was a thing and that was because I told him. These aren’t noobs either, most have been active golfers for decades. I guarantee they don’t know anything about these OEM “knockoff” heads, which I’m sure is exactly how the OEMs want it.

[Loose_Ferrule]

18 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

For kids, but still a separate market segment.  ProdiG

 

https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/juniors/prodi-g-junior-golf-club-set

 

 

 

Sorry but this particular reference has no relevance to the topic. PING makes a box set specifically for Juniors, not sure how this falls into the clone/fake or misleading category. 

 

If any adult gets duped into buying a junior boxed set, then we have a bigger problem on our hands.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

16 minutes ago, Loose_Ferrule said:

Sorry but this particular reference has no relevance to the topic. PING makes a box set specifically for Juniors, not sure how this falls into the clone/fake or misleading category. 

 

If any adult gets duped into buying a junior boxed set, then we have a bigger problem on our hands.

I was talking about box sets and market segments.  Not clones.  #context

[BCC1898]

38 minutes ago, PuffyC said:

This intentionally deceptive practice is just gross. The fake “made for” shafts are bad enough but you throw in OEMs making and selling what is essentially their own clone heads and I wonder how it’s even legal.

 

FWIW, I regularly play with 6 other guys and only one knew that “made for” shafts was a thing and that was because I told him. These aren’t noobs either, most have been active golfers for decades. I guarantee they don’t know anything about these OEM “knockoff” heads, which I’m sure is exactly how the OEMs want it.

Please cite the law that has you confused?

[cardia10]

It is overly deceptive and disappointing. Takes advantage of golfers without a lot of equipment knowledge. I'd just trade them back in with the manufacturer under the original model. If they pretend there is no difference, then there should be no issue trading it in as a earlier model year since "they are just the same/"

[Jeff58]

1 hour ago, BCC1898 said:

Please cite the law that has you confused?

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/topics/truth-advertising

 

That was difficult 🥵

[BallerNate]

33 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/topics/truth-advertising

 

That was difficult 🥵

[BCC1898]

Except there is no ADVERTISING. So what is deceptive?

 

Now point out where they said this was the exact same driver from YEARS ago.

 

Better yet, are we now saying product names can’t be recycled by the owners of the intellectual property?  

Try and sell your poorly researched purchase and move on. Happens all the time. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[Puttersaurus Rex]

1 hour ago, Jeff58 said:

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/topics/truth-advertising

 

That was difficult 🥵

Well it must be difficult, because that law about truthful advertising does not apply here.

[PuffyC]

3 hours ago, BCC1898 said:

Please cite the law that has you confused?

 

I didn't say it violated a law. If you read my post I said "I wonder how it’s even legal". And I still wonder, although being legal and acting with integrity aren't the same thing. If they had created this new, different head without all the tech (even though it looks almost identical) and called it the Rogue Basic (tm) then sure, that's fair game, but they didn't. And IMO they did it specifically to deceive the poor sap in the golf store or on eBay who doesn't know better and who trusts the OEM name. Defend it all you want but that doesn't make it any less gross.