OEM’s producing Clone clubs and shafts…how do you feel about it?

Pnwpingi210 · February 7

11 minutes ago, jholz said:

You are correct. Two different clubs. If you read the nomenclature carefully both retailers make the distinction.

Back to caveat emptor.

Caveat emptor/buyer beware applies to most things and it’s the exact reason the OP was making other buyers beware.

jholz · February 7

8 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Caveat emptor/buyer beware applies to most things and it’s the exact reason the OP was making other buyers beware.

And I'm not arguing that mon frer.

My only beef is the assertion that the Rogue ST 24 MAX is a "scam" and that somehow Callaway Golf is intentionally trying to hurt consumers by offering it to the market.

I'd say that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Pnwpingi210 · February 7

Just now, jholz said:

And I'm not arguing that mon frer.

My only beef is the assertion that the Rogue ST 24 MAX is a "scam" and that somehow Callaway Golf is intentionally trying to hurt consumers by offering it to the market.

I'd say that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Hurt them is not the word I would choose

I think they are trying to making a relatively and comparatively inferior product (24 version) look visually similar to a superior product (2022 version) and charge the same price in the current market (349.xx). The marketing materials are also relatively difficult to find for the 2024 version and there certainly wasn’t any near the retailers bins I saw. While you can fault the retailer for this, most OEMS, including Callaway are specific about how you can and can’t market a product of theirs in stores. The lack of explanation what’s different different about the 24 version vs 22 version could be argued as intentional for the reasons stated above (since Callaway could say this spec sheet must be listed by the display of the clubs in stores)

This thread does helps educate folks on that practice and give people more information to make a decision on if they want to buy that option.

BallerNate · February 7

Man, I’ve said over and over, how are you supposed to “do research” on a club that’s not listed on the OEM website, there’s no reviews or information about it online, there’s no information about it in the retail stores, AND WE’RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO POST ABOUT IT and make people aware on the Equipment thread??!!

All I’m trying to do is give people the heads up, and allow others to make their own decisions without being fooled by a stripped down/clone product!

Sure seems like there are people who are trying to victim shame, bog down the thread, and change the subject so that this all goes away.

Callaway employees, Callaway lawyers? I don’t know who these people are, but they sure don’t seem like they want what’s best for fellow WRX’rs, and for Golf consumers….

Edited February 7 by BallerNate

MickeyTankBank · February 7

1 hour ago, jholz said:

You are correct. Two different clubs. If you read the nomenclature carefully both retailers make the distinction.

Back to caveat emptor.

I'm not sure how people are missing this. OP keeps saying you can't research it cause it's not on the Callaway website. If the original Rogue ST and the Rogue ST '24 are both posted on the Dick's website, it pretty easy to compare the two and see the differences. If the Rogue ST '24 is not on the Dick's website then you can still compare the original Rogue ST on the Dick's website to the Rogue ST '24 that's for sale on any other website. That's how the internet works. You can look at more than one website to compare things. The tools are there and it seem like others are not very good at doing the research then calling it a "scam"

Edited February 7 by j4663535
Clarifying for the people bad at researching

bvanlieu · February 7

Been a while @BallerNate, good winter topic 🙂

I don't throw too much shade on any OEM trying to use a name and also making the product a bit cheaper: it happens in other industries, some times subtle, sometimes awful . I agree with your premise that Cally should be above this given their size in the market.

What I don't get is how no one has lashed you with a wet noodle for not going to CPO to get your Rogue for far less then $350, hell you probably have stuff to trade in to make it near free 😛

As for research, its tough in many markets: people don't like to do research. Vast majority of people consume. We are the exception, most of their sales come from the general population and they know their price points inside out.

Kind of goes to show you that year over year they are not dropping their costs much at all and a driver head is multi-materiial and complex to make. To make a much lower price point, had to take a bunch of the tech out of it.

Pnwpingi210 · February 7

8 minutes ago, j4663535 said:

I'm not sure how people are missing this. OP keeps saying you can't research it cause it's not on the Callaway website. If the original Rogue ST and the Rogue ST '24 are both posted on the Dick's website, it pretty easy to compare the two and see the differences. The tools are there and it seem like others are not very good at doing the research then calling it a "scam"

Dicks sells the rogue st max 2022 version (the one with the tech). There is no link to a 2024 rogue st max on the Dicks website. I don’t believe they sell the 24 version without the tech.

if you believe they sell both, could you supply the link to the 24 version? It would be get to get it posted in the thread.

JMB3 · February 7

1 hour ago, jholz said:

You are correct. Two different clubs. If you read the nomenclature carefully both retailers make the distinction.

Back to caveat emptor.

Designed to look the same… How dare consumers be confused!!

jholz · February 7

2 minutes ago, JMB3 said:

Designed to look the same… How dare consumers be confused!!

Consumers seem to be well aware of the difference between a stock Camry and Camry LE models. Or a Honda and an Acura.

How is this any different?

JMB3 · February 7

Just now, jholz said:

Consumers seem to be well aware of the difference between a stock Camry and Camry LE models. Or a Honda and an Acura.

How is this any different?

The LE says LE on it.

MickeyTankBank · February 7

3 minutes ago, JMB3 said:

The LE says LE on it.

And the Rogue ST 24 Max says 24 on it and doesn't have Jailbreak. Here's a screenshot from Carl's to show the differences:

jholz · February 7

3 minutes ago, JMB3 said:

The LE says LE on it.

I believe we are in agreement?

Rob G 89 · February 7

If you want it on the equipment forum do a head to head test, watch the clone perform better

BallerNate · February 7

30 minutes ago, bvanlieu said:

Been a while @BallerNate, good winter topic 🙂

I don't throw too much shade on any OEM trying to use a name and also making the product a bit cheaper: it happens in other industries, some times subtle, sometimes awful . I agree with your premise that Cally should be above this given their size in the market.

What I don't get is how no one has lashed you with a wet noodle for not going to CPO to get your Rogue for far less then $350, hell you probably have stuff to trade in to make it near free 😛

As for research, its tough in many markets: people don't like to do research. Vast majority of people consume. We are the exception, most of their sales come from the general population and they know their price points inside out.

Kind of goes to show you that year over year they are not dropping their costs much at all and a driver head is multi-materiial and complex to make. To make a much lower price point, had to take a bunch of the tech out of it.

Hahaha…”lashed with a wet noodle”…classic, Lol!!

Welcome to the thread…it’s good to have another sane person here, there aren’t enough of us on here, Lol.

Yeah, I never ordered from Cally CPO because we don’t have it in Canada. We have to use the U.S. one, so once you add in the exchange rate, and customs charges etc, it’s not as appealing.

But hey, Callaway solved the problem for me anyways…they’ll never get another penny from me after the experience last week. 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️

Pnwpingi210 · February 7

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Hurt them is not the word I would choose

I think they are trying to making a relatively and comparatively inferior product (24 version) look visually similar to a superior product (2022 version) and charge the same price in the current market (349.xx). The marketing materials are also relatively difficult to find for the 2024 version and there certainly wasn’t any near the retailers bins I saw. While you can fault the retailer for this, most OEMS, including Callaway are specific about how you can and can’t market a product of theirs in stores. The lack of explanation what’s different different about the 24 version vs 22 version could be argued as intentional for the reasons stated above (since Callaway could say this spec sheet must be listed by the display of the clubs in stores)

This thread does helps educate folks on that practice and give people more information to make a decision on if they want to buy that option.

Reposting since it’s applicable to recent posts.

its not that you can’t find the information. It’s the culmination of having products that look near identical, without having the same technology, at the same price point. Its also clear there’s not a clear effort to market them differently such as when technology is added, since we hear about that. The OEM without question has influence, maybe even control, of how retails market their product.

Whether or not you agree with the practice (which is the what people are sideteacking this on) this thread is helping inform people on the paractice and helping them in their own “research” in making informed decisions.

Edited February 7 by Pnwpingi210

straightshot7 · February 8

1 hour ago, j4663535 said:

And the Rogue ST 24 Max says 24 on it and doesn't have Jailbreak. Here's a screenshot from Carl's to show the differences:

it says 24 on the club head? Where? Pic?

looking at the pics on page 1 and elsewhere it only says Rogue ST and max…

Edited February 8 by straightshot7

BallerNate · February 8

57 minutes ago, Rob G 89 said:

If you want it on the equipment forum do a head to head test, watch the clone perform better

Haha! There was actually a fitter who tested the real Rogue ST Max side-by-side next to the clone “Rogue ST Max 24” on the other thread.

He said the clone had 6mph less ball speed, and had similar launch, spin, and distance numbers to a 4-Wood. 😬

popp · February 8

This is gross and a total bait and switch tactic. I will now think twice before buying anything from Callaway and probably Golf Town too.

I always wondered if the RocketballZ woods that were in Golf Town forever, like 4-5 years after their initial release were somehow an inferior product. Has that been confirmed?

I'_rather_be_golfing · February 8

Oh man I’m gonna be honest and say I had no idea this was a thing till reading this thread. Definitely makes me open my eyes more and pay attention to the details. Pretty shady thing to do. And messed up in every way. Seems like companies bank on people that don’t pay attention or don’t know. I mean if I didn’t know. I couldn’t imagine how many more don’t know and make the purchase thinking they are getting an amazing product when it’s just a watered down version.

BallerNate · February 8

6 hours ago, popp said:

This is gross and a total bait and switch tactic. I will now think twice before buying anything from Callaway and probably Golf Town too.

I always wondered if the RocketballZ woods that were in Golf Town forever, like 4-5 years after their initial release were somehow an inferior product. Has that been confirmed?

4 hours ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Oh man I’m gonna be honest and say I had no idea this was a thing till reading this thread. Definitely makes me open my eyes more and pay attention to the details. Pretty shady thing to do. And messed up in every way. Seems like companies bank on people that don’t pay attention or don’t know. I mean if I didn’t know. I couldn’t imagine how many more don’t know and make the purchase thinking they are getting an amazing product when it’s just a watered down version.

I had no idea either until last week…HUGE eye-opener!

And this is why I created this thread in the Equipment section, to reach more WRX’rs like you guys (and me), who had no idea that Callaway was doing this.

@GwrxMod any more thought regarding moving this thread back to the Equipment section so we can help more WRX’rs be informed and “do their research”?

Lots of people who had no idea this was a common practice for OEM’s, and this thread has helped raise awareness and help them make educated decisions going forward.

bvanlieu · February 8

10 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Yeah, I never ordered from Cally CPO because we don’t have it in Canada. We have to use the U.S. one, so once you add in the exchange rate, and customs charges etc, it’s not as appealing.

My bad, forgot about that silly border we still have with you.

10 hours ago, BallerNate said:

But hey, Callaway solved the problem for me anyways…they’ll never get another penny from me after the experience last week. 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️

Now now Nate, recalling past threads and things you have done with equipment, do we really still use the word never? 😄

JMB3 · February 8

13 hours ago, j4663535 said:

And the Rogue ST 24 Max says 24 on it and doesn't have Jailbreak. Here's a screenshot from Carl's to show the differences:

It does not. “24” appears nowhere on the club.

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

8 hours ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Oh man I’m gonna be honest and say I had no idea this was a thing till reading this thread. Definitely makes me open my eyes more and pay attention to the details. Pretty shady thing to do. And messed up in every way. Seems like companies bank on people that don’t pay attention or don’t know. I mean if I didn’t know. I couldn’t imagine how many more don’t know and make the purchase thinking they are getting an amazing product when it’s just a watered down version.

Here is a different scenario:

Some people buy a F150 XL and others buy a F150 King Ranch. Both are the same truck platform with different options for different prices. I can get them in the same color too.

Yes, you have to pay attention to the details like any major purchase.

Is that “shady” or capitalism?

Pnwpingi210 · February 8

49 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Here is a different scenario:

Some people buy a F150 XL and others buy a F150 King Ranch. Both are the same truck platform with different options for different prices. I can get them in the same color too.

Yes, you have to pay attention to the details like any major purchase.

Is that “shady” or capitalism?

yes those are different scenarios and not the same. No applicable.

No it’s not shady because it’s common practice that most consumers that come on the lot or aware (it’s clear from this thread that more than a couple people weren’t aware this happens with golf drivers) AND a salesperson makes you keenly aware of the differences by showing the enhancements on the king ranch Va the f150. Top that off with the fact the you probably can’t find a new 2022 king ranch on the lot next to any 2024 ford xl to have them being priced exactly the same. If you are comparing new vs new there is a 40K+ price difference which also alerts you they are different. You could apply this to online car sales as well.

Yes it’s capitalism, but that is moot.

BYK · February 8

57 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Here is a different scenario:

Some people buy a F150 XL and others buy a F150 King Ranch. Both are the same truck platform with different options for different prices. I can get them in the same color too.

Yes, you have to pay attention to the details like any major purchase.

Is that “shady” or capitalism?

Depends on how you look at it

For me that comparison isn't the same as both those F150s (as I understand it) have the same engine and basic components (ie same truck platform). The difference is stylistic upgrades etc. For the Rogue vs Rogue 24, there are basic components that are missing on the the 24, jailbreak etc.

I get that you should educate yourself on all purchases, but we're all gear heads here who are way more interested and in tune with all these details like jailbreak etc, but I have to admit, I never imagined the 24 was that different than the regular rogue max. And from what I've seen, Callaway isn't trying to hard to distinguish between the two. The way I read what they put up about it, they assume you know the rogue max has JB etc.

Red4282 · February 8

IMO, its at a minimum shady, and borderline unethical. Yea it may be legal and apparently commonplace but it doesn't make it right. They could have just released it with a different name/paint job, but there is a REASON they didnt. Its that they will sell a few more based on deception alone. Is it on the consumers to be educated? Yea, sure, but taking advantage of that just seems dirty.

Edited February 8 by Red4282

straightshot7 · February 8

1 hour ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Here is a different scenario:

Some people buy a F150 XL and others buy a F150 King Ranch. Both are the same truck platform with different options for different prices. I can get them in the same color too.

Yes, you have to pay attention to the details like any major purchase.

Is that “shady” or capitalism?

The difference in the trucks is clearly seen, understood and explained

the King Ranch has giant King Ranch logos on it, for example.

if this clone driver had a visible “24” on it, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

a member here who is experienced with callaway clubs purchased the “24” thinking it was the original. That’s how similar they look.

it is confusing in the least but borderline deceptive.

Edited February 8 by straightshot7

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

I agree with counterpoints, and was pointing out this is not “shady” or “messed up” because it happens all the time in capitalistic markets.

Callaway wants/intends for the Elyte to be sold next to this ST 24 model. So it is comparable to the F150 scenario if looking at these two current products only.

I agree that Callaway could have done it differently, but here we are with Business/Marketing 101.

I'_rather_be_golfing · February 8

1 hour ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Here is a different scenario:

Some people buy a F150 XL and others buy a F150 King Ranch. Both are the same truck platform with different options for different prices. I can get them in the same color too.

Yes, you have to pay attention to the details like any major purchase.

Is that “shady” or capitalism?

Not really comparable analogy though. Ford isn't trying to pass off and sell a F150 XL truck as a F150 king ranch at a king ranch price. After looking into this topic more. These companies are literally trying to sell watered down products as superior products at what I think in my opinion still at a high cost.

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

2 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Not really comparable analogy though. Ford isn't trying to pass off and sell a F150 XL truck as a F150 king ranch at a king ranch price. After looking into this topic more. These companies are literally trying to sell watered down products as superior products at what I think in my opinion still at a high cost.

It is comparable in my scenario because the 25 XL isn't at the 25 King Ranch price, just the like the Elyte isn't at the Rogue ST 24 price.

OEM’s producing Clone clubs and shafts…how do you feel about it?

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