OEM’s producing Clone clubs and shafts…how do you feel about it?

Pnwpingi210 · February 8

1 minute ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

It is comparable in my scenario because the 25 XL isn't at the 25 King Ranch price, just the like the Elyte isn't at the Rogue ST 24 price.

Yes, we agree your scenario is different.

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

Going back to OP.

At what point in this saga did you realize you had an "inferior" product? As soon as it was delivered you saw the "made for" Mitsubishi shaft, correct? Did that give you pause?

Did you notice the lack of jailbreak, and try to return it back to the retailer ASAP? Or did you take it straight to the range, and see a noticeable difference compared to your gamer?

straightshot7 · February 8

8 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

I agree with counterpoints, and was pointing out this is not “shady” or “messed up” because it happens all the time in capitalistic markets.

Callaway wants/intends for the Elyte to be sold next to this ST 24 model. So it is comparable to the F150 scenario if looking at these two current products only.

I agree that Callaway could have done it differently, but here we are with Business/Marketing 101.

nope, because in none of your Ford analogies is Ford selling a new (inferior) model borderline identical to a previous (superior) model.

no one is confused about what Ford they are buying or what iPhone they are buying.

it says iPhone SE on it. It doesn’t say iPhone14 but it’s actually an iPhone SE. or people would be pissed and confused.

It’s not business/marketing 101 or no one would be complaining.

it’s a product you have to carefully examine to distinguish from the other model. That’s not normal. It’s normal to put new logos/distinguishing marks on a different product.

BYK · February 8

2 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

It is comparable in my scenario because the 25 XL isn't at the 25 King Ranch price, just the like the Elyte isn't at the Rogue ST 24 price.

Comparing a F150 King Ranch vs F150 XL is way different than Elyte vs Rogue ST 24. The whole point for our discussion about the Rogue max vs 24 is that they're the same name other than the 24.

MickeyTankBank · February 8

2 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Going back to OP.

At what point in this saga did you realize you had an "inferior" product? As soon as it was delivered you saw the "made for" Mitsubishi shaft, correct? Did that give you pause?

Did you notice the lack of jailbreak, and try to return it back to the retailer ASAP? Or did you take it straight to the range, and see a noticeable difference compared to your gamer?

He bought it in person at a store. So he he was able to look at it in his hands before purchasing. He didn't notice the differences until he got home.

Pnwpingi210 · February 8

5 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Going back to OP.

At what point in this saga did you realize you had an "inferior" product? As soon as it was delivered you saw the "made for" Mitsubishi shaft, correct? Did that give you pause?

Did you notice the lack of jailbreak, and try to return it back to the retailer ASAP? Or did you take it straight to the range, and see a noticeable difference compared to your gamer?

Why is this important? What purposes does him answering this serve?

he acknowledges it happened, and is sharing information so it doesn’t happen to others.

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

As everyone is so fixated on the "aesthetics" of the bottom of drivers, I thought any of us would have immediately noticed the lack of "jailbreak", and given pause.

🤷‍♂️

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

2 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Why is this important? What purposes does him answering this serve?

he acknowledges it happened, and is sharing information so it doesn’t happen to others.

Because this is becoming a mountain out of a mole hill. Some people are overreacting, and I am trying to provide some levity with other perspectives.

Pnwpingi210 · February 8

1 minute ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Because this is becoming a mountain out of a mole hill. Some people are overreacting, and I am trying to provide some levity with other perspectives.

Ah so it bothers you when somebody is trying to help or sharing information with the community.

there are no negative impacts to anyone by the op sharing this. Many people have stated they weren’t aware and appreciated it.

MickeyTankBank · February 8

5 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Because this is becoming a mountain out of a mole hill. Some people are overreacting, and I am trying to provide some levity with other perspectives.

Now you've done it. You're gonna get 2 or 3 "confused" faces on your comment.

Edited February 8 by j4663535

BYK · February 8

2 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Because this is becoming a mountain out of a mole hill. Some people are overreacting, and I am trying to provide some levity with other perspectives.

Always good to have different viewpoints.

Do you think it's somewhat odd that the Callaway site doesn't specifically point out the lack of JB, flash face etc and expects the consumer to know they aren't there in a very similarly designed club?

I think a lot of this goes away if they a) marked the club so it's obvious they are different ie '24 on the club, and b) they were specific this club is based on a model but lacks some of that tech?

JMB3 · February 8

27 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Not really comparable analogy though. Ford isn't trying to pass off and sell a F150 XL truck as a F150 king ranch at a king ranch price. After looking into this topic more. These companies are literally trying to sell watered down products as superior products at what I think in my opinion still at a high cost.

I agree—it’s not a proper analogy. Have yet to see one from the “pro-Callaway” crowd. Every club release has different models. We are not complaining that having a Max model and a Core model are deceptive. We are talking about a stripped down clone released years later sold at the same price as the discounted original. How is this so hard for some to understand?

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

23 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Ah so it bothers you when somebody is trying to help or sharing information with the community.

there are no negative impacts to anyone by the op sharing this. Many people have stated they weren’t aware and appreciated it.

Nope. Never said or implied that it bothers me when somebody is trying to help. I think this topic could have been handled better is my point.

Most in this forum are well aware that this happens with shafts (Mitsubishi and "Fentus"), yet acts like this specific club is a line too far and are "shocked" by this same exact sales strategy that has existed for decades in the golf industry.

Edited February 8 by Puttersaurus Rex

JMB3 · February 8

And for those relying almost entirely on the missing Jailbreak, go look at the photos of the ‘22 Mavrik and tell me how those differ.

JMB3 · February 8

12 minutes ago, BYK said:

Always good to have different viewpoints.

Do you think it's somewhat odd that the Callaway site doesn't specifically point out the lack of JB, flash face etc and expects the consumer to know they aren't there in a very similarly designed club?

I think a lot of this goes away if they a) marked the club so it's obvious they are different ie '24 on the club, and b) they were specific this club is based on a model but lacks some of that tech?

That would have gone a long way. Because if they had, at least then the consumer may have reason to ask, “what’s different with the ‘24’?” And if they are lucky, they would search and find this very informative thread.

Red4282 · February 8

29 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

As everyone is so fixated on the "aesthetics" of the bottom of drivers, I thought any of us would have immediately noticed the lack of "jailbreak", and given pause.

🤷‍♂️

To be fair Im about as equipment junkie as it gets and before this thread I couldnt tell you if the rogue line had jailbreka or not. Remember they recently removed that, because of AI or whatever .

BallerNate · February 8

27 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Going back to OP.

At what point in this saga did you realize you had an "inferior" product? As soon as it was delivered you saw the "made for" Mitsubishi shaft, correct? Did that give you pause?

Did you notice the lack of jailbreak, and try to return it back to the retailer ASAP? Or did you take it straight to the range, and see a noticeable difference compared to your gamer?

I bought it last Thursday from Golf Town (the biggest Golf retailer in Canada), from their Woods section where it was listed as the Rogue ST Max, and had a big SALE sign.

It was right next to the Elyte and A.I. Smoke in their Callaway section.

I then posted about buying it in the “Most Recent Purchase” thread in the Equipment section, and my WITB thread.

After I did that, a fellow WRX’r sent me a private message to alert me that he thought it might be the “24” clone version, and he sent me a link to the “Warning: Callaway Rogue ST Max Scam” thread.

After reading through that thread, and looking at the “24” clone more closely, I noticed that it didn’t have “Jailbreak”, or “Flash Face 22” written on the club, and it had black in the areas of the sole that were Carbon on the original.

As soon as I realized it was a clone, I returned it to Golf Town immediately. They have a policy that if a club is hit, you can’t return it.

And that’s when I started trying to alert other WRX’rs, so they wouldn’t fall into the same trap.

Puttersaurus Rex · February 8

1 minute ago, BallerNate said:

I bought it last Thursday from Golf Town (the biggest Golf retailer in Canada), from their Woods section where it was listed as the Rogue ST Max, and had a big SALE sign.

It was right next to the Elyte and A.I. Smoke in their Callaway section.

I then posted about buying it in the “Most Recent Purchase” thread in the Equipment section, and my WITB thread.

After I did that, a fellow WRX’r sent me a private message to alert me that he thought it might be the “24” clone version, and he sent me a link to the “Warning: Callaway Rogue ST Max Scam” thread.

After reading through that thread, and looking at the “24” clone more closely, I noticed that it didn’t have “Jailbreak”, or “Flash Face 22” written on the club, and it had black in the areas of the sole that were Carbon on the original.

As soon as I realized it was a clone, I returned it to Golf Town immediately. They have a policy that if a club is hit, you can’t return it.

And that’s when I started trying to alert other WRX’rs, so they wouldn’t fall into the same trap.

Thank you.

I understand your frustration, and am glad you were able to return it right away. I think this topic would have gone better if there was less alarmist verbiage used in the beginning (not just by you). People claiming this is "illegal" and other misinformed accusations towards Mods and Callaway fueled the flames into seven unnecessary pages.

I have nothing else to add, and will see myself out of this topic.

Red4282 · February 8

In the past wasnt the BIg Bertha (21?) their lower price point line? That should be the way to do it but i guess deception has benefit$.

BYK · February 8

1 minute ago, Red4282 said:

In the past wasnt the BIg Bertha (21?) their lower price point line? That should be the way to do it but i guess deception has benefit$.

I think the Edge line is their "box store" version of clubs, but not 100% on that

Agreed, the point is, just name it something different. Done.

CTgamer · February 8

Very much agree with OP and others that this is a distasteful practice - similar-ish to “made for” shafts which all of WRX raised a stink about, and worse than “non velocore Fuji’s” because they and all the manufacturers will actively tell you about the differences.

That’s not to say consumers aren’t also responsible, but there’s a difference between a serious golfer and club junkie walking into an established store vs. a few times a year golfer that thinks they can buy a better game at a discount.

But speaking of levity, and to acknowledge both sides of this, let’s just imagine what the Callaway marketing would read if they were as honest as we (and maybe they) would like:

”Callaway here, and we’re honestly in a bind. Driver technology has been maxed out for awhile, and our marketing intern can’t think of any more names to put on the sole of our new driver release. Heaven forbid someone actually tests it, because it’s not any faster either!

But it’s the consumers that are really killing us. We found out that all the guys playing our products are a bunch of cheap hypocrites, who think they can both buy a better game AND AT THE SAME TIME are unwilling to pay for it. Of all the stupid, unreasonable ideas 😅

You might think we’re wrong, but we found the perfect solution. We took a driver you know and love, and made a new version - it looks the same, costs (almost) the same, heck it even comes with the same head cover! But we took everything that made it expensive for us to produce (and good for your game) and stripped those pesky things out. Now, our delusional consumers can have their cake and eat it too, and we can make an actual profit!

#worldofwunder”

This is sarcasm, in case anyone needs the reminder, and hopefully illustrates the difference between OP and the consumers that do actually need to be told “to do your research.”

🍻🍻🍻

BallerNate · February 8

7 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Thank you.

I understand your frustration, and am glad you were able to return it right away. I think this topic would have gone better if there was less alarmist verbiage used in the beginning (not just by you). People claiming this is "illegal" and other misinformed accusations towards Mods and Callaway fueled the flames into seven unnecessary pages.

I have nothing else to add, and will see myself out of this topic.

Thanks for understanding.

I think the “alarmist verbiage” came from shock and frustration, and to be honest, some hurt feelings as well.

As far as this thread goes, you’re welcome here man. You’ve posted some things that I don’t agree with, but we’re allowed to have different opinions, and this thread was meant for open discussion, and creating awareness about Golf Industry practices that many of us had no idea about.

BallerNate · February 8

21 minutes ago, BYK said:

I think the Edge line is their "box store" version of clubs, but not 100% on that

Agreed, the point is, just name it something different. Done.

Correct, the Edge is the box set that Callaway sells at Costco.

I actually bought an Edge set for my son…one of the many Callaway purchases I’ve made in the past.

And that’s 100% it, if they just named their entry-level clubs a different name and design, no one would have a problem with it whatsoever.

MickeyTankBank · February 8

9 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Thanks for understanding.

I think the “alarmist verbiage” came from shock and frustration, and to be honest, some hurt feelings as well.

As far as this thread goes, you’re welcome here man. You’ve posted some things that I don’t agree with, but we’re allowed to have different opinions, and this thread was meant for open discussion, and creating awareness about Golf Industry practices that many of us had no idea about.

Unless you have an opinion that the same 3 or 4 people who have the majority of the posts in here disagree with.

Bring on the "confused" faces.

BallerNate · February 8

6 minutes ago, j4663535 said:

Unless you have an opinion that the same 3 or 4 people who have the majority of the posts in here disagree with.

Bring on the "confused" faces.

That’s fair, but let’s be honest…I’d say it’s the opposite.

It’s been 3 people defending Callaway’s actions, and everyone else that has been on the thread agrees that this whole situation stinks and is super shady.

The only difference with the people who think it sucks is whether they think it’s illegal, unethical, or just sneaky.

MickeyTankBank · February 8

2 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

That’s fair, but let’s be honest…I’d say it’s the opposite.

It’s been 3 people defending Callaway’s actions, and everyone else that has been on the thread agrees that this whole situation stinks and is super shady.

The only difference with the people who think it sucks is whether they think it’s illegal, unethical, or just sneaky.

How is it the opposite? Anyone who has said anything that doesn't agree with your opinion has been ganged up on by 3 or 4 people. This thread has been anything but an open and free discussion. You've even been arguing with the mods, multiple times.

Pnwpingi210 · February 8

25 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

That’s fair, but let’s be honest…I’d say it’s the opposite.

It’s been 3 people defending Callaway’s actions, and everyone else that has been on the thread agrees that this whole situation stinks and is super shady.

The only difference with the people who think it sucks is whether they think it’s illegal, unethical, or just sneaky.

Very much true if you read back through the two threads. There have been tens of people say something to the effect of wow I didn’t know, now I do. Thanks for posting, Nate.

There has been 3-5 people saying something to the effect of do your research as a consumer.

how do I know this yo be true, I did my research and read the thread vs posting a made up number. 🙂

(Edit this post is intended to be factual accurate and bring humor and levity to the discussion)

Edited February 8 by Pnwpingi210

JMB3 · February 8

13 minutes ago, j4663535 said:

Unless you have an opinion that the same 3 or 4 people who have the majority of the posts in here disagree with.

Bring on the "confused" faces.

It’s an online forum. People will not always agree. On this topic, you appear to be in the dissent. BUT that doesn’t mean you’re not welcome to participate. If anything I posted made you feel that way, that’s my bad.

I do not expect to change your opinion. I’m just sharing mine—which is probably quite clear by now.

Final thought on this thread: long time Callaway homer, disappointed by this practice by them and the two others who have done it, and happy my bag in 2025 is comprised of mostly Titleist/Ping/Mizuno.

🍻

BallerNate · February 8

3 minutes ago, j4663535 said:

How is it the opposite? Anyone who has said anything that doesn't agree with your opinion has been ganged up on by 3 or 4 people. This thread has been anything but an open and free discussion. You've even been arguing with the mods, multiple times.

I’ve never argued with Mods.

Every time I’ve tagged a moderator, I’ve been very respectful.

I’ve just been saying that I believe this is a topic that should be in the Equipment section so that it can reach more people on WRX, so they can be educated about this cloning practice, and “do their research”.

But no one has been “ganged up on”, or disrespected for having different viewpoints…at least not from me.

MickeyTankBank · February 8

Just now, BallerNate said:

I’ve never argued with Mods.

Every time I’ve tagged a moderator, I’ve been very respectful.

I’ve just been saying that I believe this is a topic that should be in the Equipment section so that it can reach more people on WRX, so they can be educated about this cloning practice, and “do their research”.

But no one has been “ganged up on”, or disrespected for having different viewpoints…at least not from me.

It's the complete opposite of everything you just said here. You're too emotionally invested in this to see it from the outside.

OEM’s producing Clone clubs and shafts…how do you feel about it?

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