MORAD

[darth_fader_]

It seems many in this forum agree that Mac O’Grady is an undercover legend of the game. I’ve really just scratched the surface on all that’s out there via YouTube. Seen several forums in here talking about him and the plethora of instructors that are his disciples whether by admission or in secret. 
 

My question is, is there a centralized place I can learn Mac’s teachings in more of a chronological order? Old Mac to New Mac. CF vs CP. Modern technology that affirms his teachings (GEARS etc.)

 

Bonus question: where do TGM, Scott Cowx, and any relevant others I don’t know of fall in the Mac O’Grady cosmos?

[naj959]

10 hours ago, darth_fader_ said:

It seems many in this forum agree that Mac O’Grady is an undercover legend of the game. I’ve really just scratched the surface on all that’s out there via YouTube. Seen several forums in here talking about him and the plethora of instructors that are his disciples whether by admission or in secret. 
 

My question is, is there a centralized place I can learn Mac’s teachings in more of a chronological order? Old Mac to New Mac. CF vs CP. Modern technology that affirms his teachings (GEARS etc.)

 

Bonus question: where do TGM, Scott Cowx, and any relevant others I don’t know of fall in the Mac O’Grady cosmos?

First rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club! Mac asks those still in the circle not to share his work.

 

Best sources I've found are Kevin Ralbovsky, Paul Gorman and John Dochety youtube pages. Dochety has the best organization IMO but Kevin has a lot of old footage of Mac actually teaching various pupils. As far as a centralized location, you'll have to pay and to attend one of Mac's schools.

 

One of Macs goals was to continue where Homer Kelley left off and he has far surpassed TGM IMO. 

I can't remember what podcast it was but Cowx stated he never got the opportunity to work with Mac because he studied under Andy and Mike. That's a big no no. Stack and Tilt is the Devil. Guilty by association gets you a preemptive golden boot!

 

Only reason I know all this is because I too went down the Morad rabbit hole and foraged the interwebs for any breadcrumbs I could find. I hope one day his work is published because the man is a golf genius and doesn't get the credit he deserves for what he has contributed to the golf world. I believe he's semi-retired in Japan these days. 

[NosajNeelik]

I think his teachings get legendary because of the fact it’s a big mystery. Has to be great, right?

[virtuoso]

I ended up learning more about that dude than I ever wanted to.

[virtuoso]

Morad Fun Fact: Mac couldn’t actually get the shaft on the heel line at P8 like he demonstrated in slow motion when identifying the 10 position during the Model 1 phase. This was the origin story of CP.

[Ajgaguy83]

7 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I ended up learning more about that dude than I ever wanted to.

Do tell………

Edited February 12 by Ajgaguy83

[virtuoso]

14 minutes ago, Ajgaguy83 said:

Do tell………

Too lazy to type it all. I’d make a vid, but it would just get removed. I might talk to the Grovelers about it some.

[MK7Golf21]

Mac's swing was actually pretty good, think that is what drew most people in. Hands not too low, not too high on backswing. Didn't slide much on the downswing and was pretty controlled and simple looking. He just got into the weeds too much with details when teaching the model, some people like that but hurts most people's actual swing.

 

I think in the beginning he taught a pretty simple model but I could be wrong. 

[iacas]

MORAD and Mac is a dead end. Just as with TGM, the world has moved on. We have more information, better information, etc.

 

Given all we know about the importance of the full swing (driving, approach shots) in playing golf and scoring, if Mac hit it as well as he's reputed to have done, he'd have had more PGA Tour success and not had to go through Q School in the teens of times or whatever it was.

 

Almost every good instructor I know has studied MORAD at one point or another, but that's only because almost every good instructor I know has studied almost anything they can get their hands on.

 

I have hundreds of hours of tapes of Mac teaching. I skimmed through them once. Like I said, we've moved on. We know more.

 

Edited February 12 by iacas

[MK7Golf21]

...

Edited February 12 by MK7Golf21

[RichieHunt]

Mac going thru Q-School 17 times was in part because back then Q-School was 2x a year.  So it wasn't like he went to Q-School for 17 years, it was more like 8 years.  Before his study of the swing he was a prodigy of sorts as he was a really good player that hit it super long with old clubs.  That drew interest from investors and the investors thought 'imagine if this kid had a teacher!'  I forget the teacher's name, but they sent him to a teacher that taught Amy Alcott and it just didn't work for Mac.  He got much, much worse and was no longer the long hitter. 

This caused a rift between Mac and his investors and eventually Mac stopped seeing the instructors the investors wanted him to work with and started studying TGM (IIRC, he initially learned about TGM from Ben Doyle).  Mac went to Homer Kelley personally to talk about TGM and Kelley basically told him there is 'no correct way' to swing the club and if he wanted a strong grip, that's fine.  When Mac went into TGM that's when he regained his distance off the tee and looked like the player he became and got thru Q-School.  He also won twice on Tour, including the Tournament of Champions.

When I look at his very basic metrics on Tour he had signs that he was probably a very good, if not great, ballstriker on Tour.  You can be a great ballstriker on Tour and be such a bad putter and short game player that you're no longer on Tour (i.e. Robert Garrigus, Charles Warren, etc).  

I've talked to many people that have caddied for Mac and the two things all of them say are:

1)  He didn't have the temperament for the game.  He would basically get bothered by the silliest little things  and it could happen at any time.

2)  His course management was lousy.  He was the type of golfer that could be bombing drives right down the middle with a fade and then get on a hole like #18 at Pebble and insist that you hit a draw off that tee to play the hole and then would snap hook it into the water instead of just hitting the fade that he was hitting perfect drives with all round long.

MORAD is more of a focus on the neuro-biology of the golf swing.  Part of that was going into biomechanics to help support the neuro-biology.  Much of the biomechanics involved with MORAD is erroneous.  To be fair, a lot of biomechanics attempts by actual biomechanists were dead wrong prior to all of these advancements in measurement technology in the past 10 years (and Dr. Kwon's research).  But one could also argue that neuro-biology is all that relevant to the golf swing.  Kinda like the relevance of Homer Kelley's geometry focused view of the golf swing.

Where I give Mac a ton of credit is he did really get into an analysis of the golf swing and not having one specific model of the golf swing that was determined to be 'right' or 'proper.'  A lot of teachers weren't teaching this.  They had a 'proper' way of swinging and the prices of the swing.  Mac's teachings was more about compatibility and spectrums.  

He actually debunked a lot of TGM and in one interview claimed that TGM was 'tragically flawed.'  He was the first instructor I had heard talk about how TGM's 'aiming point' concept was incorrect because the hands reach its lowest point about p6 and with the way the club is designed and where the club's CoM is located it will actually make a golfer 'flip' thru impact when they try to utilize the hand thrust in the 'aiming point' concept.

MORAD was, IMO, generally a better analysis of the golf swing than what was being taught at the time by most golf instructors and even biomechanists.  I remember when Chris Como asked me what I cought of biomechanics when he first got with Dr. Kwon and I replied 'the problem with biomechanics is if you ask 5 biomechanists a question on the swing, you'll get 6 different answers.'

But now with launch monitors, 3D mocap, force plate systems, strain gauges, etc, etc. etc. AND  having a wide variety of subjects being tested from the #1 player in the world to the 30 handicap the answers from biomechanists are far more accurate and definitive.  And we see many of the flaws in what MORAD has taught.  The most common thread I find with what we know today thru biomechanics vs. what MORAD has taught us usually MORAD made things more difficult than what it actually needed to be.

But I still believe on a driving range, Mac could strike it as well as anybody.  It's just that striking it on a driving range and striking it in a tournament are two different things and actually translating that to scores in tournaments is almost a different galaxy.  Nobody confuses Fredrik Jacobsen, Jonah Blixt, Peter Malnati, etc. as being better ballstrikers than Garrigus or Warren were, but they've had a lot more success.  


RH

[mwiklund]

On the topic of MORAD - I noted that some money appears to have changed hands between Golf Pride and Robert Rock to promote their align grips by way of recent lessons to a bunch of influencers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[unskinnybop99]

 

John Dochety goes through the whole swing in about an hour......outstanding stuff. I usually watch the whole playlist every winter as a review.

[sundaypins]

Pretty good Mac sightings.  

 

https://www.instagram.com/iandavisongolfschoolsvancouver/reel/C_Tldz3yFDY/?hl=en

 

https://x.com/PGATOURSMartin/status/1901771085076644148

 

On 2/12/2025 at 11:38 AM, RichieHunt said:

He was the first instructor I had heard talk about how TGM's 'aiming point' concept was incorrect because the hands reach its lowest point about p6 and with the way the club is designed and where the club's CoM is located it will actually make a golfer 'flip' thru impact when they try to utilize the hand thrust in the 'aiming point' concept.

 

Great post RH, probably why Mac climbed the ladder during the strike.  

 

7 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Sunday, have you ever come across any pure tgm hitters other than Ted Fort?

 

Know of him but nothing about him.  I've only personally seen a couple up close, me included.   If under a tree with a very low canopy from poor maintenance making a full move uncomfortable without branch collision I'll pull a radial drive from bag using a flatter move.  Works like a charm. 

 

On 2/12/2025 at 10:22 AM, iacas said:

MORAD and Mac is a dead end. Just as with TGM, the world has moved on. We have more information, better information, etc.

 

Like I said, we've moved on. We know more.

 

By all means, keep moving on, we won't care, it's a big world out there. 

[virtuoso]

32 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

Know of him but nothing about him.  I've only personally seen a couple up close, me included.   If under a tree with a very low canopy from poor maintenance making a full move uncomfortable without branch collision I'll pull a radial drive from bag using a flatter move.  Works a charm.

Why not tilt the torso back, unstack yourself and squish the ball less downward. Then you can go radial all the time and get away from the swinging crapshoot?

Edited July 11 by virtuoso

[sundaypins]

Not stacking weight but stacking centers by offsetting the game's asymmetrical beginning then using that platform with right arm and minimal torso response- but just under poorly managed tree maintenance.   Swinging is great as we age, maybe porch swings are sending us a message since seniors are usually in them.  🙂 

[virtuoso]

42 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

Not stacking weight but stacking centers by offsetting the game's asymmetrical beginning then using that platform with right arm and minimal torso response- but just under poorly managed tree maintenance.   Swinging is great as we age, maybe porch swings are sending us a message since seniors are usually in them.  🙂 

yes, cg stacking......um, the torso should respond late. Surely you know this.

[sundaypins]

A little dose of Mac highlighting Seve.    The elbows, the elbows, the elbows, great for longer club work and a ball that tracks.  Tried it a while back, very easy shot to have in bag.

 

 

 

[getitdaily]

5 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Why not tilt the torso back, unstack yourself and squish the ball less downward. Then you can go radial all the time and get away from the swinging crapshoot?

 

4 hours ago, sundaypins said:

Not stacking weight but stacking centers by offsetting the game's asymmetrical beginning then using that platform with right arm and minimal torso response- but just under poorly managed tree maintenance.   Swinging is great as we age, maybe porch swings are sending us a message since seniors are usually in them.  🙂 

Is it just me, or did you guys go into a super secret code language?

 

 

 

Edited July 11 by getitdaily

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

 

Is it just me, or did you guys go into a super secret code language?

 

 

 

I think @Primo1868 might have something to say about this. sundaypins "gets" me.

[getitdaily]

23 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I think @Primo1868 might have something to say about this. sundaypins "gets" me.

I just figured out wrist flexion vs extension last week. Still working on supination, pronation, deviation, etc and now I gotta learn cg stacking, asymmetrical centers, and torso response. 

 

It's like the tower of babel in here. 

 

Told my wife I was a radial deviant the other day. All I got was "that's nice dear, how much did it cost?"

Edited July 11 by getitdaily

[Primo1868]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

I think @Primo1868 might have something to say about this. sundaypins "gets" me.

All I know is, I was the first to start that conspiracy bit.  

Edited July 11 by Primo1868

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

I just figured out wrist flexion vs extension last week. Still working on supination, pronation, deviation, etc and now I gotta learn cg stacking, asymmetrical centers, and torso response. 

 

It's like the tower of babel in here. 

 

Told my wife I was a radial deviant the other day. All I got was "that's nice dear, how much did it cost?"

Good. It’s not just me.    I deal in an industry with loads of jargon.  But for the life of me I can’t keep it all straight.  I can’t find a logical pattern to the terms.  

[getitdaily]

19 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Good. It’s not just me.    I deal in an industry with loads of jargon.  But for the life of me I can’t keep it all straight.  I can’t find a logical pattern to the terms.  

I didn't even touch on internal vs external rotation...probably because I wouldn't know which way to turn.

 

I tried to externally rotate my hip...all it did was give me a psoas.

Edited July 11 by getitdaily

[jonsnow]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

I didn't even touch on internal vs external rotation...probably because I wouldn't know which way to turn.

 

I tried to externally rotate my hip...all it did was give me a psoas.

Or addiction vs abduction

[getitdaily]

19 minutes ago, jonsnow said:

Or addiction vs abduction

Heck, idk why anyone in golf would study a system that says you have a lot of counting to do after your round...

[ShowMe]

On 7/11/2025 at 3:01 PM, sundaypins said:

A little dose of Mac highlighting Seve.    The elbows, the elbows, the elbows, great for longer club work and a ball that tracks.  Tried it a while back, very easy shot to have in bag.

 

 

 

Look how he starts moving to his left side on the backswing.  This is the move that rescued Victor Hovland's chipping and the key to making solid contact.

[sundaypins]

15 hours ago, ShowMe said:

Look how he starts moving to his left side on the backswing.  This is the move that rescued Victor Hovland's chipping and the key to making solid contact.

 

All about radius control, finding that smaller circle, a few ways finding it.  

[virtuoso]

3 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

All about radius control, finding that smaller circle, a few ways finding it.  

Why are we looking for a smaller circle? Agree with the radius control part.

 

Also, a lot of the reason the sternum shifts target ward for better players in transition is because of what the pelvis turn does naturally with a narrow stance.

 

For some amateurs, trying to get them to artificially move toward the target, especially if they do it the wrong way…..will have them ready to quit the game.

[ShowMe]

53 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Why are we looking for a smaller circle? Agree with the radius control part.

 

Also, a lot of the reason the sternum shifts target ward for better players in transition is because of what the pelvis turn does naturally with a narrow stance.

 

For some amateurs, trying to get them to artificially move toward the target, especially if they do it the wrong way…..will have them ready to quit the game.

In the video, he has very little pelvis turn, but a large shift to the left side on the backswing relative to how short a shot he has to hit.  I’ve tried it and it works very well but does take a lot of practice to ingrain the proper feeling.  
 

What is the better way to do this with the same good results?