Losing the only feel that matters (for me, but maybe you too)

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

Come on man.  

 

Paddy knows a lot about golf and has some really helpful videos. 

 

Monte is a great teacher and player as well. You don't have to make it seem like one is better than the other. Multiple good resources and different drills / ideas is better than one. 

 

If you watch Padraig series he's really big on recentering. Getting the weight forward.  Doing the step drill a lot. He told that guy to swing like a baseball bat to get him to transfer his weight to the lead side earlier and it worked for that guy. Is it going to make him a scratch golfer? No.  But it solved what Paddy saw as a big issue for him.  I wouldn't say that's bad advice. 

 

 

I’m not knocking paddy, he has great stuff, he probably has very limited knowledge of baseball and the baseball swing,  not to mention the amateur he was working with made a terrible baseball swing.

 

Trying to get anyone to make a baseball swing as their golf swing is asking for trouble because it’s going to cause a slice. The baseball swing doesn’t transfer weight like a golf swing which is one of the reasons baseball hitters have a worse swing than a pitcher.

 

My comment about paddy was solely to point out using baseball is a bad idea, and used Monte as a reference, btw Monte has pro level baseball in the immediate famiiy so he might know a thing or two about both swings 

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

actually really like this video that disputes your, "im not wrong about chasing feels being the wrong path to success" comment with your prefered instructor (I'm also on golfwrx, so I'm also probably a fan, yeah?)

Chasing feels are short term fixes that disappear sometimes the next day, a week later, a month later. They also require more work to make a swing work rather than if someone takes the time to build a proper swing though learning the swing mechanics. It’s easier on the body and less energy is spent.

 

Get feels from the mechanics of the swing 

 

2 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

some, especially those who are lost and can't find an athletic swing.  After finding that Patty video in which he advocates for EXACTLY the same thing, I'm pretty sure it's not terrible advice for everyone despite your dogged and unquestioning persistance otherwise.  Anyways, I think I've said what I set out to say.  

It’s going to hurt more people than it helps

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

The problems with chasing A feel is its short term at best. What ends up happening is the more your work on that feel/drill the more exaggerated you start to make that feel in your swing. Then you are back to square one. Been down that road too many times myself. Found one that feel that got me going for a while, so i l keep working on that drill until I start having the opposite problems that the drill/feel was trying to address.

Bingo. It’s a never ending chase.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

I’m not knocking paddy, he has great stuff, he probably has very limited knowledge of baseball and the baseball swing,  not to mention the amateur he was working with made a terrible baseball swing.

 

That clip was also clearly not really about squaring the face or doing other things, it was about how the guy wasn't swinging athletically, but he's a baseball player, so Paddy told him to show him a baseball swing. Just to get some speed and athleticism back in the guy's move (we don't see the before AFAIK).

 

If the get was a tennis player he probably would have asked to see a forehand or something — doesn't mean it's "mechanically" what the guy needed. Just what he needed for the freedom and speed.

[wagolfer7]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

That clip was also clearly not really about squaring the face or doing other things, it was about how the guy wasn't swinging athletically, but he's a baseball player, so Paddy told him to show him a baseball swing. Just to get some speed and athleticism back in the guy's move (we don't see the before AFAIK).

 

If the get was a tennis player he probably would have asked to see a forehand or something — doesn't mean it's "mechanically" what the guy needed. Just what he needed for the freedom and speed.

This.  I don't think it has anything to do with baseball.  I've seen paddy do it similar with throwing the ball into the ground.  Just about using simple ideas and things people may be more familiar with to get them do something be better. 

 

[bonvivantva]

4 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

The problems with chasing A feel is its short term at best. What ends up happening is the more your work on that feel/drill the more exaggerated you start to make that feel in your swing. Then you are back to square one. Been down that road too many times myself. 

 

I can understand your point and I think we may even agree on it, but I really did not advise anyone to chase a feel.  If you search the posts for the word chase or chasing, it all comes for the 'nope, wrong' naysayer knowitall that would rather be right than productive or helpful.  He who knows more than Monte and Paddy but curiously doesn't have his own channel. 

 

Now I don't want to hijack my own post, but if Monte and Pádraig are talking about feel, I think maybe it's not as taboo as y'all are acting like it is?  But again, I never wanted this post to be about the merits of feel for long term improvement.  I just brought up feel in the context of refinding an athletic swing.  Not unlike the linked videos.  It's not my original idea, it's what helped me and what I wanted to share.  Maybe we can all agree that an athletic feel is ok as the basis of a golf swing?  And perhaps we can leave the discussion on the merits of feel for long term improvement to some other thread in which it's the actual focus of the conversation and not a distracting aside?

 

I did my best to explain that an athletic swing feel is more like breadcrumbs you leave to find your way home.  I only really look for that athletic feel when I'm lost.  When I'm already at square one.  I never said the baseball drill athletic swing feel was a path to improvement, certainly not something I have or anyone should chase to find long-term improvement; I said it's a way to refind your swing, your more base level athletic swing.  When I'm working on stuff and things go off the rails, it's a way to get back to basics.  I can't speak for Paddy but look at that video I linked to.  He telling someone that is trying to do something that isn't working, to forget whatever isn't working, and just swing hard and be athletic.  That's exactly what my OP was about.  If you're lost.  If you're at square one, rock bottom, lost, then maybe just do that linked drill to find your athletic swing and get back on track.  I never said anything about chasing a feel or listen to me, I can get you to scratch.  I was quite specific in saying that the drill I linked to gives me a feel that helps me get back to a basic athletic swing.  

Edited March 10 by bonvivantva

[bonvivantva]

If you really want to dicuss the merits of feel maybe start a new thread?

Edited March 10 by bonvivantva

[SNIPERBBB]

3 hours ago, bonvivantva said:

Now I don't want to hijack my own post, but if Monte and Pádraig are talking about feel, I think maybe it's not as taboo as y'all are acting like it is?  But again, I never wanted this post to be about the merits of feel for long term improvement.  I just brought up feel in the context of refinding an athletic swing.  Not unlike the linked videos.  It's not my original idea, it's what helped me and what I wanted to share.  Maybe we can all agree that an athletic feel is ok as the basis of a golf swing?  And perhaps we can leave the discussion on the merits of feel for long term improvement to some other thread in which it's the actual focus of the conversation and not a distracting aside?

Monte has also talked about not using a drill long periods of time.

 

As far as the athletic thing... that's such a subjective and broad thing that's it's meaningless. What people feel is a powerful or fast move is often not. They just efforted more 

[TheDeanAbides]

This thread... 

 

[bonvivantva]

21 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Monte has also talked about not using a drill long periods of time.

 

As far as the athletic thing... that's such a subjective and broad thing that's it's meaningless. What people feel is a powerful or fast move is often not. They just efforted more 

 

I'm not saying to use this drill or any drill for long periods of time.  Gogo keeps talking about neverending chases and whatnot, but he's only skimming the thread at best despite posting as many times as the OP...  What I actually wrote is that it's a drill that helps me remember what an athletic swing feels like when I'm lost.  Like when I get in the weeds of a swing change and can barely hit or advance the ball, it's a good way to find my way back to something I can likely improve upon.  I never said this would get you to scratch or is the path to long term success.  I know we're getting a lot of emotional reactions to this post for whatever reason, but if you look back I'm only taking about using this feel to get back to basics.  If anything it's more like a in case of emergency break glass type thing.

 

I'm not sure I agree that an athletic feel is so subjective and broad that it's meaningless.  It is subjective and vague, no doubt, but I don't think I can explain what the athletic feel is in detail, so it's the best I can do.  Vague and subjective yes, meaningless, I don't think so, but I'm sure plenty would agree with you.  I do agree that what people thing feels powerful is often not.  The big muscles feel powerful, but that's my spin out, etc.  I like that video where Paddy has the swing speed radar, and he talks about just doing whatever gets the numbers up.  That would be a great way to take the subjectivity out of it.  I have 1st gen skytrak, so I have to use ball speed as a metric, but swing speed would be better for sure and I agree that you don't really know what is helping you unless you can verify it somehow.

 

I really do think the baseball drill I posed, both the original and the ones in which Paddy advocates it like below are more universally helpful in that they get you working in a more naturally athletic way and may even prevent you from doing the subconcious things that get in the way of an athletic swing.

https://www.facebook.com/PGATOURChampions/videos/padraig-harrington-gives-a-lesson-to-auburn-football-coach/736619000829959/

In this one he talks about hitting into the firm left side.  I think for me, it's that release feel that's most important.  If I can feel a sequence that allows me to release the club, then maybe I can find my way back.  Anyway, there are so many examples of Paddy, and just about anyone else you can name talking about baseball drills.  Google it if you doubt it.  While actual baseball players may take issue with the comparison, I think there has to be something to it given how common a topic it seems to be.  If you really can't stomach the term baseball, this video talks about a lot of the same stuff, but never uses that contentious term.  It does seem to be more specific and less universally applicable than the baseball drill though.  

 

Edited March 11 by bonvivantva

[iacas]

Humor me, then… @bonvivantva… I'm not sure I understand the point of the topic. Could you share what it was it in a sentence or two?

 

Of course, if you'd rather not, that's okay too. 🙂 

[bonvivantva]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Humor me, then… @bonvivantva… I'm not sure I understand the point of the topic. Could you share what it was it in a sentence or two?

 

Of course, if you'd rather not, that's okay too. 🙂 

If you get caught up in swing changes, preconceived notions, etc., and just can't get any speed or distance, I think the baseball drill can help you find your way back to a powerful swing.