I want to capture clubhead at impact

[autronicdsm]

I tried to capture what the club is doing at impact but 240fps doesn't even come close to capturing it. Realistically how many fps is necessary to get a clean image? Anyone used a Sony RX0 II for such a thing? it says it's does 1000fps but I haven't been able to find if it's interpolated or not. With F4 lens though shutter speed might not be fast enough to eliminate a lot of motion blur... I'm guessing.

ANy other specialty cameras out there? Had lessons at two different places which both used cameras to capture my swing but place was poorly lit and everything was blurred. Good enough to check body posture but club head looked like it was moving thousand mph...

[Socrates]

8 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

I tried to capture what the club is doing at impact but 240fps doesn't even come close to capturing it. Realistically how many fps is necessary to get a clean image? Anyone used a Sony RX0 II for such a thing? it says it's does 1000fps but I haven't been able to find if it's interpolated or not. With F4 lens though shutter speed might not be fast enough to eliminate a lot of motion blur... I'm guessing.

ANy other specialty cameras out there? Had lessons at two different places which both used cameras to capture my swing but place was poorly lit and everything was blurred. Good enough to check body posture but club head looked like it was moving thousand mph...

from a quick search on high speed cameras for golf.  You are going to need a lot of lighting.

 

https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/golf-simulator-forum/simulator-builds/393895-looking-for-high-speed-camera-to-record-swing

 

 

09-15-2023, 09:06 PM

The OV4689, 1/3 inch sensor camera is a good camera to start with.
It is UVC compatible, so it works on every windows system without any additional driver.
It is not mentioned in the documentation, but it seems to be a global shutter sensor, what is important (rolling shutter creates a geometrically distorted frame)

The sensor has a relative good light sensitivity, delivering 120fps at 1270x720 resolution or even 260fps at 640x360 resolution

However, the question comes up of what you want to observe in your video.
The videos look acceptable at normal speed and up to some slow motion factor.

However, if you come to a single frame display, you will have a lot of blurring.

Blurring is not related to the frame rate but rather to the shutter speed ( or exposure time that is the same), see attached sketch.

Let’s take an example of a standard iron 7 swing, assuming a club speed of 90 mp/h (112km/h).

The club then moves at a speed of 1,2 inch/millisecond (3,13 cm/millisecond)
or 0,00123 inch/microsecond (0,00313cm / microsecond)

At standard light conditions, we can assume that the camera uses an automatic exposure time of 3000 - 5000 microseconds, resulting in blurring of 3,7 - 6,1 inch ( 9,39 - 15,6 cm) club movement. That is what you see on your images.

To get a relatively clear image of the club, you have to go down to 200 - 500 micro (!) seconds.
So you need a lot of light to come down to these values.

Joan from Kinovea has made different testings on the UVC-cameras and mentioned, that it really is difficult to control these type of cameras regarding the acquisition parameters.

If you want to get full control of all these parameters, you would have to use a machine vision camera like the one from Basler, IDS or Daheng (cameras having the IMX273 sensor are a good option) that work with kinovea. Furthermore, you need a lot of light that is absolutely flicker free.

[autronicdsm]

10 minutes ago, Socrates said:

from a quick search on high speed cameras for golf.  You are going to need a lot of lighting.

 

https://golfsimulatorforum.com/forum/golf-simulator-forum/simulator-builds/393895-looking-for-high-speed-camera-to-record-swing

 

 

09-15-2023, 09:06 PM

The OV4689, 1/3 inch sensor camera is a good camera to start with.
It is UVC compatible, so it works on every windows system without any additional driver.
It is not mentioned in the documentation, but it seems to be a global shutter sensor, what is important (rolling shutter creates a geometrically distorted frame)

The sensor has a relative good light sensitivity, delivering 120fps at 1270x720 resolution or even 260fps at 640x360 resolution

However, the question comes up of what you want to observe in your video.
The videos look acceptable at normal speed and up to some slow motion factor.

However, if you come to a single frame display, you will have a lot of blurring.

Blurring is not related to the frame rate but rather to the shutter speed ( or exposure time that is the same), see attached sketch.

Let’s take an example of a standard iron 7 swing, assuming a club speed of 90 mp/h (112km/h).

The club then moves at a speed of 1,2 inch/millisecond (3,13 cm/millisecond)
or 0,00123 inch/microsecond (0,00313cm / microsecond)

At standard light conditions, we can assume that the camera uses an automatic exposure time of 3000 - 5000 microseconds, resulting in blurring of 3,7 - 6,1 inch ( 9,39 - 15,6 cm) club movement. That is what you see on your images.

To get a relatively clear image of the club, you have to go down to 200 - 500 micro (!) seconds.
So you need a lot of light to come down to these values.

Joan from Kinovea has made different testings on the UVC-cameras and mentioned, that it really is difficult to control these type of cameras regarding the acquisition parameters.

If you want to get full control of all these parameters, you would have to use a machine vision camera like the one from Basler, IDS or Daheng (cameras having the IMX273 sensor are a good option) that work with kinovea. Furthermore, you need a lot of light that is absolutely flicker free.

 

Yeah, I understand all the requirements for capturing clean slow motion. Hence I question if something like RX0 camera can do it... I researched this a bit few years ago and it looks like there's still no decent "consumer" camera. I don't want to mess with industrial cameras and some 3rd party software to be able to record. I just want to see what the club is doing before hitting the ball. I feel like what I feel with my swing and what I see on the sim don't match up and it would be nice to shoot a quick vid.

[Socrates]

14 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

 

Yeah, I understand all the requirements for capturing clean slow motion. Hence I question if something like RX0 camera can do it... I researched this a bit few years ago and it looks like there's still no decent "consumer" camera. I don't want to mess with industrial cameras and some 3rd party software to be able to record. I just want to see what the club is doing before hitting the ball. I feel like what I feel with my swing and what I see on the sim don't match up and it would be nice to shoot a quick vid.

You likely would have to set up a strobe light to go off at the instant of impact to have a chance.

[ThinkingPlus]

I might try this with my setup once I get a new laptop and have everything working properly. Pretty easy for me to window down a Basler camera and crank up the frame rate. Will post video if I do it. It won't be soon though. Too many other things going on right now.

[MannJ]

The Rapsodo says to have 240 fps. It looks like this. 

[PNWGuy]

Honest question:  why do you want to do this?

[autronicdsm]

On 4/19/2025 at 4:20 PM, MannJ said:

The Rapsodo says to have 240 fps. It looks like this. 

 

That's not bad but I guess the unit has IR camera? What does a frame before look like? Can you tell if it's out-in or in-out club path?

Edited April 21 by autronicdsm

[autronicdsm]

On 4/19/2025 at 4:53 PM, PNWGuy said:

Honest question:  why do you want to do this?

 

Just curiosity. I keep getting left to right ball flight when I practice at home and no matter how much I try to correct it's always the same. With a super strong grip you would think I'd get some hooks but nope. I'm starting to question if my LM even measures things correctly 😄 

[Nickb333]

Did you try a slo mo video? 

[MannJ]

31 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

 

Just curiosity. I keep getting left to right ball flight when I practice at home and no matter how much I try to correct it's always the same. With a super strong grip you would think I'd get some hooks but nope. I'm starting to question if my LM even measures things correctly 😄 

I would guess your path is out to in but your clubface is fairly square. 
Google club face to club path relationship. 

[PNWGuy]

Trackman does a pretty good job of measuring impact data. It helped me understand how my mechanics affect my swing path and club face.