Abnormal conditions - Not marked GUR

[Olson12]

Playing in a men’s club.  Ball comes to rest in this area that middle of the fairway.  It’s not marked GUR.  Would I get relief?  If so what’s the rule.  
 

 

[ChaosTheory]

No relief.  And the biggest problem is that some of your competitors will take relief anyway.

[Olson12]

Just curious.  What makes it so I does not get relief under abnormal course conditions? 

[ChaosTheory]

4 minutes ago, Olson12 said:

Just curious.  What makes it so I does not get relief under abnormal course conditions? 

It would have to have been designated as ground under repair per the following.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/players-edition/definitions.html#_f6b6d9a9-5050-4c2b-ae80-cf56e786a00e

[Nickb333]

The good news is. Should an opponent hit your ball from there, you wouldn’t have to place your ball in the hole they created. 😉

[antip]

6 hours ago, Olson12 said:

Just curious.  What makes it so I does not get relief under abnormal course conditions? 

Rule 9 applies, play the ball as it lies, unless some form of relief is available. And as the linked definition above shows, it does not qualify for relief automatically. Consequently, relief can only come from a Committee decision, either by the spot being marked as GUR (not currently the case) or the Committee supporting a ruling request for relief at the time or if the player exercises their rights under Rule 20.1c(3), playing 2 balls and seeking the Committee's decision before submitting their card.

 

If I'm marking the course, that would not merit GUR status, the ground is smooth and playable courtesy of the maintenance staff. This area clearly has some irrigation issues.

 

[Hawkeye77]

I'd be a little ruffled if we had a big patch of sand I assume is put down as part of some repair effort and it wasn't marked GUR, but . . . .  it wasn't.  We're just into posting season but in our neck of the woods it's nothing resembling spring and the greens have been mowed all of once, etc., so lots of course areas needing attention - we play them as they lie and understand getting out and trying to identify anything like that just isn't reasonable right now.  OP's course otherwise looks in pretty good shape - suggest the course do something about it, IMO, they need to hear stuff like that.

[iclypso]

Don't ground your club in that hazard.  🙄

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I'd be a little ruffled if we had a big patch of sand I assume is put down as part of some repair effort and it wasn't marked GUR, but . . . .  it wasn't.  We're just into posting season but in our neck of the woods it's nothing resembling spring and the greens have been mowed all of once, etc., so lots of course areas needing attention - we play them as they lie and understand getting out and trying to identify anything like that just isn't reasonable right now.  OP's course otherwise looks in pretty good shape - suggest the course do something about it, IMO, they need to hear stuff like that.

 

What about a small patch of sand,,,,,,,,,,,, in the fairway,,,,,,,,,,,, like a filled-in divot ? 

[MountainKing]

Like other maintenance, courses have gotten really lazy with marking off GUR

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

What about a small patch of sand,,,,,,,,,,,, in the fairway,,,,,,,,,,,, like a filled-in divot ? 

Referees have a saying about such things, "Play hard".  Never said to a player, but we use that saying amongst ourselves to express our opinion when evaluating potential situations during our course tour before the competition begins. 

Or, as others have noted above, exercise your rights and play two balls (correctly), asking for a ruling later.

Edited April 14 by rogolf

[Nickb333]

I used to play at a course where huge patches like that existed on most holes. Once in awhile someone would complain about them not being marked as gur. To which others would reply, why mark areas gur when there will never be any effort to repair them? 

[Mr. Bean]

55 minutes ago, Nickb333 said:

I used to play at a course where huge patches like that existed on most holes. Once in awhile someone would complain about them not being marked as gur. To which others would reply, why mark areas gur when there will never be any effort to repair them? 

 

Isn't applying sand on a damaged area repairing?

[Nickb333]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Isn't applying sand on a damaged area repairing?

Yes, if the damaged area was previously a sandy patch. But after the sand is replaced, it’s been repaired. So gur is no longer applicable. Right? 
 

You’d need to see the course I referenced to believe how bad it was. When I was last there, they had a 5 man crew trying to maintain the place. The only working irrigation consisted of hoses and sprinklers the guys would move around. And there was no evidence of any attempt to repair anything beyond the greens. 

[Colin L]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Isn't applying sand on a damaged area repairing?

 

1 hour ago, Nickb333 said:

I used to play at a course where huge patches like that existed on most holes. Once in awhile someone would complain about them not being marked as gur. To which others would reply, why mark areas gur when there will never be any effort to repair them? 

Ground under repair is not an ideal expression   The Committee can mark any area as GUR.  It might need repairing, not need repairing or never going to be repaired.   

 

As far as can be judged from the photo this is a very thin layer of sand (look at the blades of grass showing through it) probably spread over a particularly wet patch of turf.   It  would scarcelyimpact on playing a shot, if at all..   On many links courses you get patches of sand on the fairway natural to the terrain.   GUR is for ground situations which are abnormal and which would unreasonably impact on play.  

 

There is another situation found on many courses where your ball can be on deeper sand filling a wee hole in the turf and  you don't get relief but let's not go there.  😉

[Nickb333]

31 minutes ago, Colin L said:

 

Ground under repair is not an ideal expression   The Committee can mark any area as GUR.  It might need repairing, not need repairing or never going to be repaired.   

 

As far as can be judged from the photo this is a very thin layer of sand (look at the blades of grass showing through it) probably spread over a particularly wet patch of turf.   It  would scarcelyimpact on playing a shot, if at all..   On many links courses you get patches of sand on the fairway natural to the terrain.   GUR is for ground situations which are abnormal and which would unreasonably impact on play.  

 

There is another situation found on many courses where your ball can be on deeper sand filling a wee hole in the turf and  you don't get relief but let's not go there.  😉

See above. The course I referenced always had conditions that impacted play. It was normal there. Even if the course had the manpower (which they didn’t) they couldn’t afford the paint to mark everything. And It would have looked like a gigantic jigsaw puzzle. 
 

 

[antip]

3 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

See above. The course I referenced always had conditions that impacted play. It was normal there. Even if the course had the manpower (which they didn’t) they couldn’t afford the paint to mark everything. And It would have looked like a gigantic jigsaw puzzle. 
 

 

When fairway conditions are that poor, preferred lies makes sense. 

Most city courses in my neck of the woods do not have more than 5 staff, some even less but course presentation is reasonable. 

[Hawkeye77]

6 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

Yes, if the damaged area was previously a sandy patch. But after the sand is replaced, it’s been repaired. So gur is no longer applicable. Right? 

No - it’s repaired when it grows back to its previous condition. At least in that circumstance.

[rogolf]

GUR is part of "Abnormal Course Conditions".  What is "abnormal" on one course might be normal on another.  One needs to look at the whole course before deciding that what they see on the first hole is "abnormal" for that course and before starting to mark areas as GUR.  Might run out of white paint on the third hole!

[DJDJ]

similar question not worth starting a new thread over.

 

Ball comes to rest in giant tractor tire ruts that aren't marked GUR...are you also screwed in this case?

[rogolf]

50 minutes ago, DJDJ said:

similar question not worth starting a new thread over.

 

Ball comes to rest in giant tractor tire ruts that aren't marked GUR...are you also screwed in this case?

Could be, depends on the Committee (tractor/cart ruts are not automatically an abnormal course condition).  Play two balls, ask for a ruling later.

Edited April 14 by rogolf

[teejaywhy]

23 hours ago, Olson12 said:

Just curious.  What makes it so I does not get relief under abnormal course conditions? 

You seem to fail to recognize that these are perfectly NORMAL conditions at Dobson Ranch!!

[Nickb333]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

No - it’s repaired when it grows back to its previous condition. At least in that circumstance.

The point was, some courses just have areas that are always void of decent grass. My current club is very well maintained, but two holes have large areas in the fairway that just never heal well. They are always patching in new sod but it never takes. The only consistent previous condition would date back to the 1980’s when it opened. Since then the conditions in those areas are constantly changing.