Lag Putting Distance Issues

[DaveLeeNC]

I have never been a good putter but also never considered lag putting to be my #1 problem. Somehow over the last 6-12 months that is a real problem for me (and clearly my #1 problem). This specifically kicks in at distances over 20-25 feet.

 

I have a decent practice green in the back yard that is of decent quality but I can't generate putts of the distance that are a problem for me (longest putt that I can generate is 25 feet). Thoughts on how to proceed? Thanks.

 

dave

[GoGoErky]

Ladder drills 

[Wardonation]

30 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I have never been a good putter but also never considered lag putting to be my #1 problem. Somehow over the last 6-12 months that is a real problem for me (and clearly my #1 problem). This specifically kicks in at distances over 20-25 feet.

 

I have a decent practice green in the back yard that is of decent quality but I can't generate putts of the distance that are a problem for me (longest putt that I can generate is 25 feet). Thoughts on how to proceed? Thanks.

 

dave

Are you putting with a LAB putter by chance?

[DaveLeeNC]

28 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Ladder drills 

 

Are these helpful when done outside the putting range that is a problem? My issue seems to be that I just 'have no feel' for how hard to hit 35' putts - 20 footers seem less of an issue.

 

8 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

Are you putting with a LAB putter by chance?

 

I am using one of the Taylormade Spyder variants and have never been much of a solve my putting problems with a new putter kind of guy. My stroke tends toward SBST but I am not a slave to that.

 

dave

[rsballer10]

30 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I have never been a good putter but also never considered lag putting to be my #1 problem. Somehow over the last 6-12 months that is a real problem for me (and clearly my #1 problem). This specifically kicks in at distances over 20-25 feet.

 

I have a decent practice green in the back yard that is of decent quality but I can't generate putts of the distance that are a problem for me (longest putt that I can generate is 25 feet). Thoughts on how to proceed? Thanks.

 

dave

My experience is that my distance control is more related to the quality of my putting stroke, versus it being a greens reading or feel problem. I have had the same struggle in my putting, and the lack of consistency in speed leads to issues with alignment. Bad speed = wrong line 100% of the time. 

 

For me, speed control comes down to taking the trail hand out of the release 100%. I've spent years trying to master the 'release' or 'gated' stroke as best as I can, but that trail hand will always add some interference to my stroke.

 

I've messed around with LH low grip for awhile, and it helps a good bit. I've recently been experimenting with claw/pencil. if you commit to only using pivot/shoulders to move the putter, I think it's a godsend to handsy/ releasy putters such as myself.

 

Highlight of the weekend was draining a 20' putt, downhill with over 2' of break. I also lagged a 50' putt across/up a 2' ridge to settle within 1' tap in. Being able to hit your lines with the correct speed is a confidence boost. I would work on mechanics, and make sure you are 100% getting a consistent impact/alignment every time. Then, learn to read greens based off this newer, consistent stroke.

[GoGoErky]

14 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

Are these helpful when done outside the putting range that is a problem? My issue seems to be that I just 'have no feel' for how hard to hit 35' putts - 20 footers seem less of an issue.

Well 35’ are going to be hit just a little bit harder than 25’ putts. 
 

You may have go to a putting green some there is you want to practice longer than 25’ putts with the ladder drill but you should be able to establish a feel for things using 25’

[TheDeanAbides]

Are you sure it's not a strike quality issue?

[StoutKing]

For me distance control has always been best with a lighter, toe-hang putter.  DF3 is very good too.  Sometimes it seems too easy.

Edited April 21 by StoutKing

[TonyRo]

Go to an actual putting green, set up 30/40/50 foot putts, even if it's just 15 minutes before your round. See how long your backswing needs to be at your normal stroke tempo to get the ball there. Then gamify it and test yourself by randomly picking those targets and trying to get it within 6 feet. Putts greater than 30 feet are a pretty big scoring differentiator, I've heard. 😁

[Cliffy2020]

35 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Are these helpful when done outside the putting range that is a problem? My issue seems to be that I just 'have no feel' for how hard to hit 35' putts - 20 footers seem less of an issue.

 

dave

Try not to “hit” the putts harder but rather lengthen your stroke.  May be worth your time to take a yard stick out the putting green and experiment with different stroke lengths.  Don’t use a hole.  Hit three balls with 10” back swings and stick a tee in the ground where they finish, hit three more with 20” backswing and a 30” backswing and mark those with tees (those backstroke lengths are arbitrary by the way not knowing your stroke or greens but you get the idea.). Pace them off and note the difference.  You’ll be amazed at how consistent you I’ll be able to repeat them once you find your natural cadence.  It’s less regimented than you think and will help build & bank those feels out on the course.

[Cliffy2020]

This is a good one.  It’s all time stamped and I think the distance control stuff starts around the 3-minute mark.

 

 

[DaveLeeNC]

34 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Are you sure it's not a strike quality issue?

The strict answer here is 'no'. But my mallet putter is going to be quite forgiving on mishits, so strike quality is not the first place that I would look. The mechanics that lead to poor strike quality - a different question.

 

dave

[KD1]

I use a system I picked up from part of Bryson's system for distance control. It's basically a wedge clock system but for putter. I aim for my follow through to always finish off of my lead foot. I have "benchmark" backswing lengths that I will recalibrate before each round on the longest/levelest stretch of the practice green I can find. IE backswing putter head inline with my trail big toe rolls X steps, inline with my trail little toe rolls Y steps, hands infront of my trail thigh rolls Z steps, etc. Once I've got these benchmarks calibrated for the day, and I get decent at learning how to tweak for uphill/downhill/grain, I can step up to the putt with a lot more confidence.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

So what is the actual issue you are having? inconsistent speeds, reads? 

 

Having a green at home is nice and all but at best its bests for just dialing in your stroke. Lag putts are something you really need to do on an empty course or on the practice green assuming its cut to the same speeds as the course greens. So much of lag putting is actually reading the greens to figure out if that 40 footer is really going to require a 40ft stroke or a 20 foot stroke or a 60 ft...

 

Ladder drill is a great one but you dont want to only do that on  the practice green. Let the ladder drill calibrate you stroke then go do random lag putts on the greens only hitting a ball or two.

[me05501]

Bob Rotella's approach to putting has worked well for me over the years.

 

I'm sure I'll oversimplify it but here are my interpretations: 

• Our bodies give us the best output when we give our minds the right kind of input.
• We want to engage our subconscious lizard brain and quiet our conscious mind. We perform best when we trust ourselves to execute without questioning outcomes. 
• For putting, free throws, casting a fishing rod, or throwing a paper wad toward a wastebasket, our brains can execute near perfectly as long as we have a very specific positive intent. You want to cast your lure THERE, so you simply focus on THERE and your body executes what is necessary to make that happen. 
• We have to accept that technical thoughts undermine performance. If you're running down a sidewalk you aren't thinking about your knee angles or balance or weight distribution. When you're putting you shouldn't be thinking about the technical stuff either. It doesn't help. 

 

Putting well using this philosophy almost feels like self-hypnosis. The more steadily I can focus on a specific spot where I want the ball to settle the more likely it is that the ball will settle there. 

 

Once you trust this approach the only challenge becomes learning to choose the right spot to focus on. 

 

For a short, straight putt that spot might be a scratch on the edge of the cup liner. For a long uphill putt the spot will be behind the hole. For a fast downhill putt the spot might only be 1/3 of the way to the cup.

 

Wherever your spot is you have to get over the ball and think only about getting the ball to that spot.

 

If you've made a good read and chosen a good spot you'll like the results. 

 

 

 

[NittanyCPA]

23 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

So what is the actual issue you are having? inconsistent speeds, reads? 

 

Having a green at home is nice and all but at best its bests for just dialing in your stroke. Lag putts are something you really need to do on an empty course or on the practice green assuming its cut to the same speeds as the course greens. So much of lag putting is actually reading the greens to figure out if that 40 footer is really going to require a 40ft stroke or a 20 foot stroke or a 60 ft...

 

Ladder drill is a great one but you dont want to only do that on  the practice green. Let the ladder drill calibrate you stroke then go do random lag putts on the greens only hitting a ball or two.

Yeah I agree.

 

Dave, you never mentioned whether you actually practice these longer putts. Spend some time away from the backyard green and put in the work. Lots of good ideas here to follow.

[wagolfer7]

I don't think it's necessary to practice 25+ footers a lot.  Distance control is distance control.  And most likely mechanics / technique is a factor in inconsistency.  

 

Make sure you got the basics down:  good posture, good grip and no lower body movement.  At least one of these is usually off when looking at people who struggle.  

 

But I would practice hitting at tees marked off every 2-3 feet.  E.G.  Ladder drill at 6FT, 9FT, 12FT and 15FT.  If you get good controlling your distances at this length, it will translate to longer putts.  

 

You'll make more shorter putts too in that 5-12FT range when you can really dial in your speed (distance control).  

 

 

[TonyRo]

38 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

You'll make more shorter putts too in that 5-12FT range when you can really dial in your speed (distance control).  

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but I think it's wild to suggest that, for a majority of golfers, the best way to get better at lag putting is to work on short putts. OP shouldn't make things complicated. If you suck at lag putting, lag putt MORE.

Edited April 21 by TonyRo

[Petethreeput]

4 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

specifically kicks in at distances over 20-25 feet

I am a decent lag putter and I have two thoughts standing over putts I want to make, but likely won't.

 

1. I play more break than I see, I think it was Ken Venturi who thought the number one killer for amateurs on the green was not playing enough break.  The result is a shorter second putt rather than a low putt rolling away from the hole.

 

2. As another poster has stated, when my speed is off it usually means too much movement in the wrists.  It is more difficult to control speed when the putter head is swinging freely.

 

Years ago I switched to LHL to take #2 out of the equation which has been very helpful.  I can still somehow get the wrist involved (don't know how but I do) and when it happens I really try to focus on keeping the left wrist firm.

[Bow Hunter]

Try to make time to go to a local course with a larger putting green. I practice short and long putts.

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, wagolfer7 said:

I don't think it's necessary to practice 25+ footers a lot.  Distance control is distance control.  And most likely mechanics / technique is a factor in inconsistency.  

 

Make sure you got the basics down:  good posture, good grip and no lower body movement.  At least one of these is usually off when looking at people who struggle.  

 

But I would practice hitting at tees marked off every 2-3 feet.  E.G.  Ladder drill at 6FT, 9FT, 12FT and 15FT.  If you get good controlling your distances at this length, it will translate to longer putts.  

 

You'll make more shorter putts too in that 5-12FT range when you can really dial in your speed (distance control).  

 

 

Practicing distant control at longer distances should be something people do.

 

especially using a ladder drill. I would recommend listening to episode 3 of the spin axis and the talk about loaded drills.

 

if someone is bad at something they should practice it

[DArnie]

Settle in on a pre-shot routine even with putting. Standing next to your ball and looking at the hole along your intended line, make your practice strokes as you would when you actually hit your ball. This let's your brain take over, not mechanics. Address the ball and stroke it withing a couple of seconds just like your practice stroke. Keep the same feeling. Make your practice strokes count!! I see many people not even take a practice stroke or even worse take one like they are hitting a 80 foot putt or a 1 foot putt. You will miss more longer putts 6-8 feet short or long and almost never 6-8 feet left or right. Speed is king on lag putting.

[grantc79]

Vertex putting is amazing if you have never tried it. I use it and are 3 putt very very rarely. 

 

Also a blast sensor does wonders.

 

https://golf.com/instruction/putting/bryson-dechambeau-putting-calibration-system/

Edited April 21 by grantc79

[DaveLeeNC]

Thanks to everyone for all the input. There is a lot to consider here.

 

dave

[Sean124]

@MonteScheinblum talks about this when he teaches putting and it seems to hold true from observing people on the course. People struggle with distance control because they don’t consistently hit the middle of the face, regardless of type of putter. 
 

My personal method of practicing lag putting is with 1 ball, random 30-50 footers, hole everything out. I don’t leave until I at least 2-putt a certain number in a row. Bonus is you feel pressure on that 4 footer when you want to go home. 

[iacas]

You're almost surely accelerating quite a bit through the hit. I'd wager, sight unseen, a good amount of money on that.

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, Sean124 said:

@MonteScheinblum talks about this when he teaches putting and it seems to hold true from observing people on the course. People struggle with distance control because they don’t consistently hit the middle of the face, regardless of type of putter. 
 

My personal method of practicing lag putting is with 1 ball, random 30-50 footers, hole everything out. I don’t leave until I at least 2-putt a certain number in a row. Bonus is you feel pressure on that 4 footer when you want to go home. 

I thought about @MonteScheinblum as well on this but will add that as regards poor contact it’s usually body movements that make the strike inconsistent.  We don’t need to move body/hips to roll a ball across the green.

 

8 hours ago, Cliffy2020 said:

Try not to “hit” the putts harder but rather lengthen your stroke.  May be worth your time to take a yard stick out the putting green and experiment with different stroke lengths.  Don’t use a hole.  Hit three balls with 10” back swings and stick a tee in the ground where they finish, hit three more with 20” backswing and a 30” backswing and mark those with tees (those backstroke lengths are arbitrary by the way not knowing your stroke or greens but you get the idea.). Pace them off and note the difference.  You’ll be amazed at how consistent you I’ll be able to repeat them once you find your natural cadence.  It’s less regimented than you think and will help build & bank those feels out on the course.

As both you and @TonyRo were hinting at the idea of longer putts is not to think about hitting it harder….its rolling it further.  Maybe that sounds like semantics but it’s not.  If you take the same length backstroke at a 35 foot putt as you did a 20 footer but try to hit it harder you are destined to fail.

  Think of holding the ball in your hand and rolling the ball across the green.  You certainly would not barely swing the arm back and the try to force it through.  You would swing the arm back far enough to just roll the ball the desired length.

[TonyRo]

18 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Think of holding the ball in your hand and rolling the ball across the green.  You certainly would not barely swing the arm back and the try to force it through.  You would swing the arm back far enough to just roll the ball the desired length.

Perfectly said, in my opinion! 

[Cliffy2020]

1 hour ago, TonyRo said:

Perfectly said, in my opinion! 

Yep

[DaveLeeNC]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

You're almost surely accelerating quite a bit through the hit. I'd wager, sight unseen, a good amount of money on that.

 

I don't know if I am accelerating too much or not (something to pay attention to on this journey). But this reminds me of something that I tried some years ago (briefly so not really a fair trial). And that was to make my putting stroke "purely pendulum". This I means I felt no head weight at all during the downstroke and my hands just "followed the clubhead" as it fell toward the ball. Doing this successfully was really seductive WRT how it felt. At least on the course it ended up being kind of manipulative and ineffective. 

 

But as I said I did not give it a fair trial and maybe this is really more of a drill thing than a "goal during a real putting stroke" thing.

 

Thanks for the comment.

 

 

21 hours ago, NittanyCPA said:

Dave, you never mentioned whether you actually practice these longer putts. Spend some time away from the backyard green and put in the work. Lots of good ideas here to follow.

 

I play once or twice a week and pre-round practice is my only lag putting practice (which doesn't get the time it deserves, in retrospect). But I will say one thing that my home putting green has done and that is that my control of the initial line of my putts is much improved. And that has made perfectly clear to me that reading short putts is my #2 putting issue, FWIW.

 

dave

Edited April 22 by DaveLeeNC