To the instructors, an apology

[getitdaily]

You dont need slow swings to improve

[GoGoErky]

54 minutes ago, jaffabell said:

Lets put this to bed now.

 

I think what Ray is getting at is that it was an assumption, and that's where context and tone can be misinterpreted over written text.

 

In a real life face to face conversation you would be more inclined to ask if he does any slow movement work, rather than just assuming he doesn't. I can see what golferdude was getting at with the observation but it did come across as a criticism rather than an objective observation. We all communicate differently and it is easy for folk to come across as cocky or condescending even if it isn't intentional.

 

Lets keep it friendly fella's as this instruction forum has been getting too confrontational in 2025

Except it’s not an assumption. The effort needed for that swing is very clearly a lot, it’s way more than what’s needed for a good swing.

 

It’s also not an assumption tbh at the op doesn’t do slower or shorter swings. We have enough posts to indicate that he doesn’t.

 

there was no tone issue in the post nor did he direct the reply at the op. It was observations made and a reply to another poster. 
 

but yes let’s put it to bed because @golferdude54 said nothing wrong, wasn’t rude or impolite, not was it any kind of attack on the op.

 

 

[getitdaily]

OP clearly needs an effortless swing. Good for him that there are plenty of youtube videos outlining exactly how to do that.

[golferdude54]

32 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Except it’s not an assumption. The effort needed for that swing is very clearly a lot, it’s way more than what’s needed for a good swing.

 

It’s also not an assumption tbh at the op doesn’t do slower or shorter swings. We have enough posts to indicate that he doesn’t.

 

there was no tone issue in the post nor did he direct the reply at the op. It was observations made and a reply to another poster. 
 

but yes let’s put it to bed because @golferdude54 said nothing wrong, wasn’t rude or impolite, not was it any kind of attack on the op.

 

 

Yes, I was just making an observation. The effort he swung at reminded me of myself in the past, thinking 50 different moves in less than 2 seconds and trying my best to do them at full speed. It was and is the wrong way to go about it.

[TheDeanAbides]

15 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Texas is a big place...

Yeah, our little island can hide up in one corner of it. That's insane to me.

[TexasTurf]

On 7/17/2025 at 1:01 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

I’d start with you’re too far away and backswing too long.  Then reaccess.

 

Thank you Monte, will do. 

 

On 7/17/2025 at 1:11 AM, golferdude54 said:

The effort he’s swinging at just seems exhausting and it tells me he doesn’t take shorter swings at slower speeds to make swing changes at all.

 

Didn't know this was a thing, thank you for the advice

 

On 7/17/2025 at 1:34 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s a strange phenomenon I deal with every day.  
 

People don’t know how to take out their PW and hit it 75 yards with a left arm parallel swing……or even 100.
 

Their normal PW is 130, I ask for 100, they give me 128 with a full backswing. I ask for 50 with a waist high backswing, they give me 120 with a full backswing decel cut off.

 

I preach this to every golfer who will listen to me.  Learn how to hit every club form 7 iron down 2 clubs shorter with a backswing no longer than left arm parallel.  The ones that actually listen have a 100% success rate in lowering their handicap.  Only 10-20% listen to me.

 

Golf is the only sport where people make an actual effort to practice at full speed all the time and make no effort to learn better movements at half speed. 
 

Imagine a major league pitcher messing with his release point and plant foot position at 100 mph and a track sprinter working on stride length running as fast as they can….or a football team running a new play at full speed.

 

 

 

The slower speed, the more hook, more fat shots, more problems, which probably exactly proves your point.

 

On 7/17/2025 at 4:17 AM, RayPlan said:

You have no basis for that assumption. Would you treat someone like this if they were standing right in front of you, in-person?

 

@TexasTurf thanks for posting your swings. Ignore unhelpful people like this dude.

 

Appreciate that but no offense taken, I came here looking for criticism, I can take it and want to hear it.

 

On 7/17/2025 at 5:33 AM, RayPlan said:

@TexasTurf

 

One basic item to look at before anything else: grip. In your FO view, there's a big clue something isn't right with your grip:

 

 

You can see daylight between your right thumb and the grip, so your hold on the club has loosened by P3, meaning your right hand probably regrips at some point. 

 

I think you'll need to be more intentional with your grip in your pre-shot routine. Here, it looks like you start with the club in your right palm, then put your left hand on the club, then sort of adjust from there, with your right hand staying on the club the whole time:

 

 

Most sources of instruction would have you start with your left on the club first, then add the right.

 

I'm not an instructor, so I'll lean on some local expertise here (iacas), who has this lengthy video on grip:

 

 

Since your hands are the only connection to the club, grip is crucial to setting up the actual swing for success. 

 

 

 

Thank you, I haven't addressed that before because I didn't know it was happening. Very helpful! 

 

On 7/17/2025 at 8:09 AM, sundaypins said:

@TexasTurf  Thanks for using YouTube for video link instead of uploading here, or other hosting sites.  Makes life easier.  

 

Not sure why instructors would find value encouraging reaching out like that for the ball at the address since it encourages getting too inside going back and the entire body response from that inside move will need a compensation through balance first and whatever is left of sequence second,  so stand a little closer for sure.   The over swing combines, but is not limited by, unneeded excessive shaft lean at address, the subsequent pull inside, and too much side to side with the body.   Recommend, for starters, being closer to ball with minimal to no shaft lean at address so your pivot can find lean instead of you manufacturing it before you begin.   

 

I doubt you're in Texas as nowhere to be found were armadillos, rusted barrels, tumble weed, and maybe an old truck outlining a sparsely grassed range field.   

 

 

 

 

 The swings I posted were my natural swing. Basically no thoughts just look at target, hit to target. I want to get an opinion on that. It's been long enough that the weight shift and ground forces stuff has transferred into my "natural" or playable swing, but while I'm working on hands and arms stuff it's not playable at this point. 

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, TexasTurf said:

 

Thank you Monte, will do. 

 

 

Didn't know this was a thing, thank you for the advice

 

 

The slower speed, the more hook, more fat shots, more problems, which probably exactly proves your point.

 

 

Appreciate that but no offense taken, I came here looking for criticism, I can take it and want to hear it.

 

 

Thank you, I haven't addressed that before because I didn't know it was happening. Very helpful! 

 

 The swings I posted were my natural swing. Basically no thoughts just look at target, hit to target. I want to get an opinion on that. It's been long enough that the weight shift and ground forces stuff has transferred into my "natural" or playable swing, but while I'm working on hands and arms stuff it's not playable at this point. 

Your full swing will never have a shot then.  If you can’t keep a Prius on the road how can you keep a Ferrari. 
 

The short swings force you to have decent movements.  That’s how you learn better hip movement which is huge for you.

[RayPlan]

3 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Your full swing will never have a shot then.  If you can’t keep a Prius on the road how can you keep a Ferrari. 
 

The short swings force you to have decent movements.  That’s how you learn better hip movement which is huge for you.

Gotta keep both hands on the wheel when learning to drive that Prius. 10 and 2!

[Sean124]

On 7/16/2025 at 11:34 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s a strange phenomenon I deal with every day.  
 

People don’t know how to take out their PW and hit it 75 yards with a left arm parallel swing……or even 100.
 

Their normal PW is 130, I ask for 100, they give me 128 with a full backswing. I ask for 50 with a waist high backswing, they give me 120 with a full backswing decel cut off.

 

I preach this to every golfer who will listen to me.  Learn how to hit every club form 7 iron down 2 clubs shorter with a backswing no longer than left arm parallel.  The ones that actually listen have a 100% success rate in lowering their handicap.  Only 10-20% listen to me.

 

Golf is the only sport where people make an actual effort to practice at full speed all the time and make no effort to learn better movements at half speed. 
 

Imagine a major league pitcher messing with his release point and plant foot position at 100 mph and a track sprinter working on stride length running as fast as they can….or a football team running a new play at full speed.

 

 

Working on this stuff has made a massive difference with my game. Especially when playing in the wind. 

[RayPlan]

30 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

Working on this stuff has made a massive difference with my game. Especially when playing in the wind. 

That's a strong testimonial, given what we've seen from you recently!

[Valtiel]

On 7/17/2025 at 2:34 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s a strange phenomenon I deal with every day.  
 

People don’t know how to take out their PW and hit it 75 yards with a left arm parallel swing……or even 100.
 

Their normal PW is 130, I ask for 100, they give me 128 with a full backswing. I ask for 50 with a waist high backswing, they give me 120 with a full backswing decel cut off.

 

I preach this to every golfer who will listen to me.  Learn how to hit every club form 7 iron down 2 clubs shorter with a backswing no longer than left arm parallel.  The ones that actually listen have a 100% success rate in lowering their handicap.  Only 10-20% listen to me.

 

Golf is the only sport where people make an actual effort to practice at full speed all the time and make no effort to learn better movements at half speed. 
 

Imagine a major league pitcher messing with his release point and plant foot position at 100 mph and a track sprinter working on stride length running as fast as they can….or a football team running a new play at full speed.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Your full swing will never have a shot then.  If you can’t keep a Prius on the road how can you keep a Ferrari. 
 

The short swings force you to have decent movements.  That’s how you learn better hip movement which is huge for you.

 

30 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

Working on this stuff has made a massive difference with my game. Especially when playing in the wind. 

Every. Single. Session. No joke, the more time goes on the more I believe that the types of swings Monte described above are basically a requirement for everyone. If you can't do them then you basically can't have a fundamentally sound full swing, because if you need the *time* that a full swing provides to make any kind of contact then it's because that time is being spent compensating for whatever you're doing wrong. Left arm parallel swings with power take away all your time and reveal what you're covering up in your full swing. 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

 

Every. Single. Session. No joke, the more time goes on the more I believe that the types of swings Monte described above are basically a requirement for everyone. If you can't do them then you basically can't have a fundamentally sound full swing, because if you need the *time* that a full swing provides to make any kind of contact then it's because that time is being spent compensating for whatever you're doing wrong. Left arm parallel swings with power take away all your time and reveal what you're covering up in your full swing. 

The first pro I ever saw gave me this lesson. I wish it didn't take me 30 years to learn it.

[Sean124]

13 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

That's a strong testimonial, given what we've seen from you recently!

It’s the only good way I’ve found to change my swing and it’s a shot I use on the course all the time. 

[Valtiel]

10 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

It’s the only good way I’ve found to change my swing and it’s a shot I use on the course all the time. 

Largely IMO because it actually gives you some kind of foundation to hit decent shots from that 40-80y range, which became my favorite after I religiously practiced them. It's wild the pretzels people have to twist themselves into when they haven't learned this. My FIL is one of those old chronic massively late hinging overswingers and when you put him in that range he makes the same swing and intuitively tries to add loft to decrease distance. Like the closer he gets to the green the more and more he's hitting massive power flop shots because anything short and punchy may as well be a foreign language. Eventually he gets into the range where he can do his little wristy pop stroke motion that he uses for putting, but there is basically *nothing* in-between those two moves, lol. It easily costs him 10+ strokes per round. 

Edited July 19 by Valtiel

[TheDeanAbides]

12 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Largely IMO because it actually gives you some kind of foundation to hit decent shots from that 40-80y range, which became my favorite after I religiously practiced them. It's wild the pretzels people have to twist themselves into when they haven't learned this. My FIL is one of those old chronic massively late hinging overswingers and when you put him in that range he makes the same swing and intuitively tries to add loft to decrease distance. Like the closer he gets to the green the more and more he's hitting massive power flop shots because anything short and punchy may as well be a foreign language. Eventually he gets into the range where he can do his little wristy pop stroke motion that he uses for putting, but there is basically *nothing* in-between those two moves, lol. It easily costs him 10+ strokes per round. 

I used to take various clubs to our par 3 course and try and hold greens using this principle. You get some looks hitting a 4 iron on a 100 yard par three!

[Sean124]

11 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Largely IMO because it actually gives you some kind of foundation to hit decent shots from that 40-80y range, which became my favorite after I religiously practiced them. It's wild the pretzels people have to twist themselves into when they haven't learned this. My FIL is one of those old chronic massively late hinging overswingers and when you put him in that range he makes the same swing and intuitively tries to add loft to decrease distance. Like the closer he gets to the green the more and more he's hitting massive power flop shots because anything short and punchy may as well be a foreign language. Eventually he gets into the range where he can do his little wristy pop stroke motion that he uses for putting, but there is basically *nothing* in-between those two moves, lol. It easily costs him 10+ strokes per round. 

Is my dad your FIL? 😂
 

Into the wind or there’s a hanging tree branch from 150 yards… Guys in my group put an 8 or 9 iron back in their stance and karate chop it. I take a 7 iron that I hit 185 and just swing short and easy. 

[TexasTurf]

22 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Your full swing will never have a shot then.  If you can’t keep a Prius on the road how can you keep a Ferrari. 
 

The short swings force you to have decent movements.  That’s how you learn better hip movement which is huge for you.

Thank you. I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say, or more likely I failed to communicate what I meant.

 

I'm not against short and slower swings, I want to do them. That is a strategy that I had not heard before, and am very grateful for your advice. 

 

I was trying to communicate that as I get slower, it gets worse, which proves your point that what I'm doing is incorrect. The float loading and late hinge doesn't work unless I'm absolutely trying to hit the piss out of the ball, which is why I don't trust it and can't incorporate it into my "playing" swing.

 

My awful swing is more effective the way it is than adding those things. 

[MonteScheinblum]

23 minutes ago, TexasTurf said:

Thank you. I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say, or more likely I failed to communicate what I meant.

 

I'm not against short and slower swings, I want to do them. That is a strategy that I had not heard before, and am very grateful for your advice. 

 

I was trying to communicate that as I get slower, it gets worse, which proves your point that what I'm doing is incorrect. The float loading and late hinge doesn't work unless I'm absolutely trying to hit the piss out of the ball, which is why I don't trust it and can't incorporate it into my "playing" swing.

 

My awful swing is more effective the way it is than adding those things. 

I knew what you meant,  I want you to get better.  Being so far away gives you no chance and the short swing will force you to hinge better.

 

For a time you will have to feel vertical hinge and hit with no turn or arm lift.

 

 

Edited July 20 by MonteScheinblum

[TexasTurf]

20 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I knew what you meant,  I want you to get better.  Being so far away gives you no chance and the short swing will force you to hinge better.

 

For a time you will have to feel vertical hinge and hit with no turn or arm lift.

 

 

 

Awesome, thank you for your help.

[MK7Golf21]

You are doing what most am’s do. Rolling the lead arm early and it cuts off any wrist hinge. It’s how a swing looks but not what actually happens. 
 

Feel butt end of club pointing inside your lead thigh longer in the takeaway. The wrist hinge will come much easier this way and you won’t have to give it max effort. 

[TexasTurf]

On 7/20/2025 at 8:38 PM, MK7Golf21 said:

You are doing what most am’s do. Rolling the lead arm early and it cuts off any wrist hinge. It’s how a swing looks but not what actually happens. 
 

Feel butt end of club pointing inside your lead thigh longer in the takeaway. The wrist hinge will come much easier this way and you won’t have to give it max effort. 

Thank you.

[TexasTurf]

With our Open Championship winner Scottie having very little to no wrist hinge on the backswing, to having 90 degrees on the downswing, I'm assuming we should treat this as an outlier, and not a model to copy? I only ask because that is what I am being taught even though my swing is quite flat and not vertical like his. Thank you all for the help.

[Valtiel]

15 minutes ago, TexasTurf said:

With our Open Championship winner Scottie having very little to no wrist hinge on the backswing, to having 90 degrees on the downswing, I'm assuming we should treat this as an outlier, and not a model to copy? I only ask because that is what I am being taught even though my swing is quite flat and not vertical like his. Thank you all for the help.

Correct, Scottie is very much an outlier and does a *lot* of other moves to make his very wide backswing, lack of wrist hinge, and slightly overrunning arms/across the line position at the top work. Scottie ironically does a ton of stuff that makes the average golfer pretty poor by pro standards, he's just so incredibly good at matching it up with other things that it works. Any one component of Scottie's swing would be pretty terrible to emulate (save for when he gets left), you really need the whole system. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Correct, Scottie is very much an outlier and does a *lot* of other moves to make his very wide backswing, lack of wrist hinge, and slightly overrunning arms/across the line position at the top work. Scottie ironically does a ton of stuff that makes the average golfer pretty poor by pro standards, he's just so incredibly good at matching it up with other things that it works. Any one component of Scottie's swing would be pretty terrible to emulate (save for when he gets left), you really need the whole system. 

And even with the whole system, I doubt any am could make it work consistently. 

[TexasTurf]

18 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Correct, Scottie is very much an outlier and does a *lot* of other moves to make his very wide backswing, lack of wrist hinge, and slightly overrunning arms/across the line position at the top work. Scottie ironically does a ton of stuff that makes the average golfer pretty poor by pro standards, he's just so incredibly good at matching it up with other things that it works. Any one component of Scottie's swing would be pretty terrible to emulate (save for when he gets left), you really need the whole system. 

Perfect, thanks for the explanation!

[Hawkeye77]

On 7/19/2025 at 2:31 PM, Sean124 said:

It’s the only good way I’ve found to change my swing and it’s a shot I use on the course all the time. 

I can't profess to very significant swing changes, but do play a lot better golf and Monte gets the credit for my better scores and not the blame for my oft predictable regressions, BUT . . . . I agree 100% - little 120 yard 6 irons can come in really handy when missing fairways into the trees, lol, and in all seriousness, whether on the range working on getting things working together properly or hitting shots into the wind, smaller shots with less loft are where it's at for me (but beware - they are very revealing). 

[coops]

20 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

With our Open Championship winner Scottie having very little to no wrist hinge on the backswing, to having 90 degrees on the downswing, I'm assuming we should treat this as an outlier, and not a model to copy? I only ask because that is what I am being taught even though my swing is quite flat and not vertical like his. Thank you all for the help.

 

 

Looks more like a smooth, progressive wrist hinge to me - certainly not 'little to no wrist hinge' . Seems to time his end of backswing to end of wrist hinge...

 

 

 

[TexasTurf]

9 hours ago, coops said:

 

 

Looks more like a smooth, progressive wrist hinge to me - certainly not 'little to no wrist hinge' . Seems to time his end of backswing to end of wrist hinge...

 

 

 

On that swing, yes. He's very dynamic and has some where there's almost none, until the downswing, but I will be ignoring those, and basically everything he does from now on. I love him as a player, but have learned it's not in my best interest to copy, even though it's been a tough pill to swallow. I appreciate the information.

Edited July 23 by TexasTurf

[TexasTurf]

Just watched a new video from my favorite golfer of all time, and friend, Lee Trevino, advocating a "weak" right hand position to hit both draws (more forward ball position) and fades (more trail foot ball position). 

 

Why is this frowned upon now with "modern" instructors teaching the exact opposite? Is there any advantage of a strong right hand teaching draws from the back foot and fades from the front foot? 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, TexasTurf said:

Just watched a new video from my favorite golfer of all time, and friend, Lee Trevino, advocating a "weak" right hand position to hit both draws (more forward ball position) and fades (more trail foot ball position). 

 

Why is this frowned upon now with "modern" instructors teaching the exact opposite? Is there any advantage of a strong right hand teaching draws from the back foot and fades from the front foot? 

That’s not much different from what I teach.