"My swing looks like [tour pro], except..."

[RayPlan]

I sometimes see or hear discussion about the merits of comparing your own swing to tour pros. Sometimes the person will be trying to look at swing videos to see what a pro does that they don't, or other times they think their swing has similar features to some tour pro, with the idea that if the pro does it, it must be a good thing to copy. I've seen informed posters and instructors advise caution about that approach, for various reasons.

 

The big picture question is: if someone has a swing that looks similar to a successful tour pro's swing in non-trivial ways, is there value in trying to more closely emulate that pro's swing?

 

I bring this up because it's come to my attention that my dad's swing looks like a sort of like a scratch-and-dent discount version of Xander Schauffele:

 

 

Granted, this is just DTL, but I think there's a pretty strong resemblance in specific movements, if not for the early extension and other issues.

 

My dad has been pretty frustrated with his swing woes, so seeing this swing comparison was a bit of a shot in the arm for him. He's previously been a pretty good golfer, in the low single digits.

 

The question then becomes: would my dad benefit from comparing his swing to Xander and trying to get closer that, or is it more likely that the resemblance is superficial and that he should independently focus on the fundamentals of GAP and backswing first, without trying to make that direct comparison?

 

Or maybe a more realistic scenario based on his current habits: would he be better served closely studying Xander Schauffele's swing, versus his current thing, which involves getting bits and pieces of information from Instagram and YouTube?

[iacas]

They’re both swinging a club. Resemblances end about there. 😜

[Hawkeye77]

36 minutes ago, iacas said:

They’re both swinging a club. Resemblances end about there. 😜

 

I was going to say they are both guys . . .

 

The answer is first, abandon the assumption he's swinging like Xander Schauffele.  Second, I suppose he needs to evaluate how he plays, whether he wants to even consider making any changes, who will help him with that if he does -- just like anyone else. Maybe he just needs a little help without an overhaul, and so forth -- so . . . he should go see a nearby instructor, or seek some help with someone qualified online, if he's not making the progress on his own he wants to make.  

 

 

[getitdaily]

The big picture question is: if someone has a swing that looks similar to a successful tour pro's swing in non-trivial ways, is there value in trying to more closely emulate that pro's swing?

 

Not really. 

 

i grew up admiring payne stewart and fred couples swings. I emulated them. Neither of those swings are worth emulating based on what i know today. 

 

I do look at pro swings when I'm exploring a change. But i generally find players who play the same shot shape as me and I look at some specific positions from several.players to see if there is a common way they all do a specific thing. I generally don't watch a drawer do anything since I play a fade. 

 

So, generally, ok to watch pro swings to try to emulate a position but most helpful if they play the same shot shape as you. However, heed caution...the swing is still game of matchups and you don't know what that pro is doing to match up his/her positions. 

[RayPlan]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

They’re both swinging a club. Resemblances end about there. 😜

That's why I asked if such a comparison was likely just superficial (i.e., not meaningful or useful). 

 

 

The underlying question is: what do visual similarities in things like the top of the backswing and shaft angles at various points tell us, when we put things by side like this? Do they tell us anything useful? Is there any reason to look at what might be causing those visual similarities, or is it more likely just a coincidence or trick of camera?

 

It's pretty typical to see video comparisons on here, showing what a good golfer does, vs. what the golfer seeking help is doing, so it seems like there's at least some merit to video swing comparison.

 

I would boil it down to two hypothetical alternatives:

 

1. My dad sees apparent similarities and tries to emulate Xander Schauffele directly, assuming he's  doing it in a mechanically-sound way

 

vs.

 

2. My dad seeks to improve his swing based on mechanically-sound fundamentals, which may or may not end up looking like Xander Schauffele's swing after he successfully puts in the work

 

 

Should someone ever try approach #1? 

 

 

For clarification, my dad didn't set out to emulate Xander Schauffele. This is just where his swing has drifted over time. 

 

 

Edited May 25 by RayPlan

[naval2006]

My swing reminds me of the first GOAT of golf. 

[Hawkeye77]

8 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

That's why I asked if such a comparison was likely just superficial (i.e., not meaningful or useful). 

 

 

The underlying question is: what do visual similarities in things like the top of the backswing and shaft angles at various points tell us, when we put things by side like this? Do they tell us anything useful? Is there any reason to look at what might be causing those visual similarities, or is it more likely just a coincidence or trick of camera?

 

It's pretty typical to see video comparisons on here, showing what a good golfer does, vs. what the golfer seeking help is doing, so it seems like there's at least some merit to video swing comparison.

 

I would boil it down to two hypothetical alternatives:

 

1. My dad sees apparent similarities and tries to emulate Xander Schauffele directly, assuming he's  doing it in a mechanically-sound way

 

vs.

 

2. My dad seeks to improve his swing based on mechanically-sound fundamentals, which may or may not end up looking like Xander Schauffele's swing after he successfully puts in the work

 

 

Should someone ever try approach #1? 

 

 

For clarification, my dad didn't set out to emulate Xander Schauffele. This is just where his swing has drifted over time.

 

You are still hung up on his swing looks like Xander's - that's the only issue I see with the video repeated and selective frames, and you want it to be like Xanders for some reason.

 

It just isn't and so no, approach 1 isn't a recipe for success.

 

What I've gotten out of a lot of discussion here over the years is there is always merit in studying what the best players in the world do with respect to many things and . . . don't try and copy a Tour pro's swing, in general.  

 

Beyond that, what I said before.

 

 

Edited May 25 by Hawkeye77

[RayPlan]

53 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

I was going to say they are both guys . . .

 

The answer is first, abandon the assumption he's swinging like Xander Schauffele.  Second, I suppose he needs to evaluate how he plays, whether he wants to even consider making any changes, who will help him with that if he does -- just like anyone else. Maybe he just needs a little help without an overhaul, and so forth -- so . . . he should go see a nearby instructor, or seek some help with someone qualified online, if he's not making the progress on his own he wants to make.  

 

 

My dad has access to good instruction and wants to fix his swing, but he gets distracted by little swing tips, making him fairly ordinary in that respect.

[GoGoErky]

9 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

It's pretty typical to see video comparisons on here, showing what a good golfer does, vs. what the golfer seeking help is doing, so it seems like there's at least some merit to video swing comparison.

This is to show what a pro is doing and how they do it to compare how the person posting isn’t doing it and where where the go wrong in the swing.

 

its not to say your swing looks like this person or that person.

 

The goal is to get the person posting doing better mechanics so they don’t have to work as hard in the swing. 
 

Episode 11 of soon axis with Mike granato from AMG is a god example. He talked about how ams move their lead arm twice as much across the chest as pros do.

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

My dad has access to good instruction and wants to fix his swing, but he gets distracted by little swing tips, making him fairly ordinary in that respect.

 

Well, telling him he looks like Xander is more than a little distraction, lol.

 

He needs to get himself involved with good instruction and get after it! 

[GoGoErky]

4 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

My dad has access to good instruction and wants to fix his swing, but he gets distracted by little swing tips, making him fairly ordinary in that respect.

Sound familiar?

[RayPlan]

3 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Sound familiar?

It's linked to a heritable disorder, so yes. But:

 

1) I knocked that off months ago

2) That's an unnecessary swipe at me

[MK7Golf21]

I think what you are seeing is the top of swing position. Xander gets a little bow in lead hand with lots of width and not much wrist c0ck/ club not reaching parallel. Your dad’s swing is sort of similar in that way, seems your dad has much more bow in lead hand and grip looks like something is going on. 
 

Not a bad swing though, can’t expect it to be like a world class golfer.

[GoGoErky]

49 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

It's linked to a heritable disorder, so yes. But:

 

1) I knocked that off months ago

2) That's an unnecessary swipe at me

It wasn’t a swipe. Just pointing out the similarities in why progress doesn’t happen

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

It wasn’t a swipe. Just pointing out the similarities in why progress doesn’t happen

It was unnecessary. He pointed it out himself.

[RayPlan]

38 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I think what you are seeing is the top of swing position. Xander gets a little bow in lead hand with lots of width and not much wrist c0ck/ club not reaching parallel. Your dad’s swing is sort of similar in that way, seems your dad has much more bow in lead hand and grip looks like something is going on. 
 

Not a bad swing though, can’t expect it to be like a world class golfer.

Yeah his grip is all kinds of wonky.

 

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

2 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Yeah his grip is all kinds of wonky.

 

 

 

 

My Dad grips it like a baseball bat, he grew up playing baseball. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

That's why I asked if such a comparison was likely just superficial (i.e., not meaningful or useful). 

 

 

The underlying question is: what do visual similarities in things like the top of the backswing and shaft angles at various points tell us, when we put things by side like this? Do they tell us anything useful? Is there any reason to look at what might be causing those visual similarities, or is it more likely just a coincidence or trick of camera?

 

It's pretty typical to see video comparisons on here, showing what a good golfer does, vs. what the golfer seeking help is doing, so it seems like there's at least some merit to video swing comparison.

 

I would boil it down to two hypothetical alternatives:

 

1. My dad sees apparent similarities and tries to emulate Xander Schauffele directly, assuming he's  doing it in a mechanically-sound way

 

vs.

 

2. My dad seeks to improve his swing based on mechanically-sound fundamentals, which may or may not end up looking like Xander Schauffele's swing after he successfully puts in the work

 

 

Should someone ever try approach #1? 

 

 

For clarification, my dad didn't set out to emulate Xander Schauffele. This is just where his swing has drifted over time. 

 

 

But it demonstrably has not ended up looking like him. 

[RayPlan]

32 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

But it demonstrably has not ended up looking like him. 

If someone could look and see what they think look like similarities, but you say it's "demonstrably" different, then go ahead and demonstrate. 

 

I'm not setting out to prove that my dad swings like Xander Schauffele, I'm trying to get at the potential usefulness of video comparisons, pitfalls, and the specific questions I posed above.

 

The fact that a few people have said they don't look at all similar is valuable to those questions, too. If I think they do in some ways, and others say they don't, I want to understand why not. 

Edited May 25 by RayPlan

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

If someone could look and see what they think look like similarities, but you say it's "demonstrably" different, then go ahead and demonstrate. 

 

I'm not setting out to prove that my dad swings like Xander Schauffele, I'm trying to get at the potential usefulness of video comparisons, pitfalls, and the specific questions I posed above.

 

The fact that a few people have said they don't look at all similar is valuable to those questions, too. If I think they do in some ways, and others say they don't, I want to understand why not. 

Grip, takeaway, arm depth, pelvis rotation, transition. Pretty much everything that counts, Ray.

[RayPlan]

5 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Grip, takeaway, arm depth, pelvis rotation, transition. Pretty much everything that counts, Ray.

I thought I was clear in my caveat that there were obvious mechanical issues when I said:

 

Granted, this is just DTL, but I think there's a pretty strong resemblance in specific movements, if not for the early extension and other issues.

 

The point was that despite being busted, there were still some elements that looked similar.

 

So I'll just assume that your answer would be that any appearance of commonality is superficial and mere coincidence, so there would be no reason to try to preserve any similarities since they could be the result of poor mechanics and compensations. Or something like that.

 

That's the kind of perspective I'm looking for, which is why I asked in the first place. I'm not trying to validate my priors or get people to agree with my subjective view that the two swings have some similarities. I'd probably be just as satisfied with someone saying "you think they look similar because X, but in reality, they can't be compared because Y"

 

The most valuable things I've learned about the golf swing is that things aren't always what they appear when looking at 2D video.

[Nels55]

Ray, for me the real question is, can you beat your him?

[RayPlan]

2 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Ray, for me the real question is, can you beat your him?

Can I beat my dad? Maybe.

 

Never done it before, but my swing mechanics have gotten better and his have gotten worse. Haven't played him yet this year.

[Pnwpingi210]

45 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

I thought I was clear in my caveat that there were obvious mechanical issues when I said:

 

Granted, this is just DTL, but I think there's a pretty strong resemblance in specific movements, if not for the early extension and other issues.

 

The point was that despite being busted, there were still some elements that looked similar.

 

So I'll just assume that your answer would be that any appearance of commonality is superficial and mere coincidence, so there would be no reason to try to preserve any similarities since they could be the result of poor mechanics and compensations. Or something like that.

 

That's the kind of perspective I'm looking for, which is why I asked in the first place. I'm not trying to validate my priors or get people to agree with my subjective view that the two swings have some similarities. I'd probably be just as satisfied with someone saying "you think they look similar because X, but in reality, they can't be compared because Y"

 

The most valuable things I've learned about the golf swing is that things aren't always what they appear when looking at 2D video.

I think what you’re missing is your dad and xanders swing don’t look similar to most people.

 

they may look similar to you and your father, but the opinion in this thread l, which you asked for, is they don’t look similar so they rest of the philosophical questions your asking are hard to answer see most don’t see the similar your seeing.

[Hawkeye77]

What I’m not missing @RayPlan is you are way too invested in this idea that your dad has a swing anything like Xander. You just keep coming back and back while saying that’s not really what it’s about.

 

You are still pushing the notion there must be some similarities worth looking for and let’s find them - basically nothing in it. 
 

Anyway, he must play decent golf and I’ll assume he enjoys it and hope so and if he wants to improve his game also sounds like he has access to coaching. 

Edited May 25 by Hawkeye77

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Grip, takeaway, arm depth, pelvis rotation, transition. Pretty much everything that counts, Ray.

Exactly. 
 

roughly p2

 

roughly p3

 

Coming into impact 

 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, RayPlan said:

The underlying question is: what do visual similarities

 

Buddy, they are not similar.

 

4 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You are still hung up on his swing looks like Xander's - that's the only issue I see with the video repeated and selective frames, and you want it to be like Xanders for some reason.

 

It just isn't

 

Agreed.

 

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

But it demonstrably has not ended up looking like him. 

 

Yep.

 

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

If someone could look and see what they think look like similarities, but you say it's "demonstrably" different, then go ahead and demonstrate. 

 

They are not remotely the same. Like I said, the similarities almost end at "both are swinging a golf club."

 

52 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I think what you’re missing is your dad and xanders swing don’t look similar to most people.

 

Correct.

 

Give up on that idea. Your dad needs what almost everyone does: to see a good instructor who can prioritize and communicate, and then your dad needs to put in the work.

[J13]

At a quick glance they can be similar in certain aspects but the swings are very different.  Your dad is suffering from a lot of EE, which is starting with his setup.  See an instructor and tell him to forget all about Xander.  

[RayPlan]

35 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

What I’m not missing @RayPlan is you are way too invested in this idea that your dad has a swing anything like Xander. You just keep coming back and back while saying that’s not really what it’s about.

 

You are still pushing the notion there must be some similarities worth looking for and let’s find them - basically nothing in it.  

 

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Buddy, they are not similar.

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

Yep.

 

 

They are not remotely the same. Like I said, the similarities almost end at "both are swinging a golf club."

 

 

Correct.

 

Give up on that idea. Your dad needs what almost everyone does: to see a good instructor who can prioritize and communicate, and then your dad needs to put in the work.

No, I genuinely did not care, except you guys are making me feel like I'm either blind or insane. It would be one thing to say "sure, some parts may look similar to you, even if they do, those similarities aren't meaningful," but instead, it's "they look nothing alike," derailing the thread with low effort dunks instead of engaging in good faith. 

 

You could even just tell me that my questions are misguided and explain why, rather than whatever all this has been. 

 

I think this part looks similar. Not exactly the same, but similar. The abbreviated looking backswing with minimal wrist hinge. The butt of the club moves toward the ball as the first downswing move on both. Shaft angles are very similar. 

 

Versus the same part of Adam Scott's swing, which truly look nothing alike. 

 

 

 

I guess I got my answers, really glad I asked.

[RayPlan]

22 minutes ago, J13 said:

At a quick glance they can be similar in certain aspects but the swings are very different.  Your dad is suffering from a lot of EE, which is starting with his setup.  See an instructor and tell him to forget all about Xander.  

Thank you, perfect response.