"My swing looks like [tour pro], except..."

[TheDeanAbides]

9 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

 

No, I genuinely did not care, except you guys are making me feel like I'm either blind or insane. It would be one thing to say "sure, some parts may look similar to you, even if they do, those similarities aren't meaningful," but instead, it's "they look nothing alike," derailing the thread with low effort dunks instead of engaging in good faith. 

 

You could even just tell me that my questions are misguided and explain why, rather than whatever all this has been. 

 

I think this part looks similar. Not exactly the same, but similar. The abbreviated looking backswing with minimal wrist hinge. The butt of the club moves toward the ball as the first downswing move on both. Shaft angles are very similar. 

 

Versus the same part of Adam Scott's swing, which truly look nothing alike. 

 

 

 

I guess I got my answers, really glad I asked.

Nobody is responding in bad faith, Ray. You're throwing your toys out of the pram because you didn't get the responses you wanted. There's no growth in doubling down on your point and being passive-aggressive. 

[Pnwpingi210]

[RayPlan]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Nobody is responding in bad faith, Ray. You're throwing your toys out of the pram because you didn't get the responses you wanted. There's no growth in doubling down on your point and being passive-aggressive. 

How about just normal aggressive?

 

Piss off.

 

You, Hawkeye, iacas, and GoGoErky started by responding with dismissiveness about the least important part of my post and arguing with me about it. People like getitdaily, MK7Golf21, and J13 actually responded in a respectful way. 

 

This place is ridiculous sometimes.

[rsballer10]

7 hours ago, RayPlan said:

if someone has a swing that looks similar to a successful tour pro's swing in non-trivial ways, is there value in trying to more closely emulate that pro's swing

What do you define as non-trivial? 

 

The similarity i see is a flexed lead wrist. I dont think that's enough to draw a comparison. 

 

It probably makes more sense to identify what parts of pops technique could be improved for him to play better golf, independent of Xander or any other pro. 

 

There's a lot of people who tried to emulate hogan's swing, but its usually all superficial in nature.

[iacas]

Wow. Okay then.

 

[MK7Golf21]

53 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

 

No, I genuinely did not care, except you guys are making me feel like I'm either blind or insane. It would be one thing to say "sure, some parts may look similar to you, even if they do, those similarities aren't meaningful," but instead, it's "they look nothing alike," derailing the thread with low effort dunks instead of engaging in good faith. 

 

You could even just tell me that my questions are misguided and explain why, rather than whatever all this has been. 

 

I think this part looks similar. Not exactly the same, but similar. The abbreviated looking backswing with minimal wrist hinge. The butt of the club moves toward the ball as the first downswing move on both. Shaft angles are very similar. 

 

Versus the same part of Adam Scott's swing, which truly look nothing alike. 

 

 

 

I guess I got my answers, really glad I asked.

 

 

All else aside, Xander would be a good model for him to try working on things to improve. Xander doesn't exactly suck at golf and his swing isn't anything crazy. If he took a lesson, there is a good chance the instructor might throw Xander up as a comparison for things to work on. I've had instructors do that in pretty much every lesson I've had, they put up a pga tour player that I might have one or two things in common with. Even if it's not even that close in similarity, they do it to inspire confidence and help to make changes to come closer to a better swing.

[joedizzy1978]

7 hours ago, RayPlan said:

I sometimes see or hear discussion about the merits of comparing your own swing to tour pros. Sometimes the person will be trying to look at swing videos to see what a pro does that they don't, or other times they think their swing has similar features to some tour pro, with the idea that if the pro does it, it must be a good thing to copy. I've seen informed posters and instructors advise caution about that approach, for various reasons.

 

The big picture question is: if someone has a swing that looks similar to a successful tour pro's swing in non-trivial ways, is there value in trying to more closely emulate that pro's swing?

 

I bring this up because it's come to my attention that my dad's swing looks like a sort of like a scratch-and-dent discount version of Xander Schauffele:

 

 

Granted, this is just DTL, but I think there's a pretty strong resemblance in specific movements, if not for the early extension and other issues.

 

My dad has been pretty frustrated with his swing woes, so seeing this swing comparison was a bit of a shot in the arm for him. He's previously been a pretty good golfer, in the low single digits.

 

The question then becomes: would my dad benefit from comparing his swing to Xander and trying to get closer that, or is it more likely that the resemblance is superficial and that he should independently focus on the fundamentals of GAP and backswing first, without trying to make that direct comparison?

 

Or maybe a more realistic scenario based on his current habits: would he be better served closely studying Xander Schauffele's swing, versus his current thing, which involves getting bits and pieces of information from Instagram and YouTube?

If you must make comparisons to a better swing, it’s rather important to have a model who is swinging at nearly identical speeds to your fathers.  Things like build, grip, and athletic ability should also be taken into account.  From there, understanding that the better player is producing forces over a duration of time to get the club to respond and that is the reason for their appearances is vital. Trying to duplicate the look at one moment of the swing is unlikely to produce meaningful change.  Being able to understand what forces are acting on the person/club and what strategies are involved is key to duplication.   Many will point to the early moments of your father’s backswing for the cause of his woes, but imop, its more the lack of forces that he’s not producing with his feet and legs relative to the ground.  Hope this answers some of your questions. 

[golferdude54]

Dang, most of the people of this thread would criticize the father/son catch scene in Field of Dreams.

[TheDeanAbides]

3 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

Dang, most of the people of this thread would criticize the father/son catch scene in Field of Dreams.

Their form was terrible. Made me puke. ;)

[Pnwpingi210]

6 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

Dang, most of the people of this thread would criticize the father/son catch scene in Field of Dreams.

[MonteScheinblum]

Aside from a few posters having a little fun with you, nothing that was said was unfair.

 

I am around 6 foot tall, around 60 years old and have lots of grey mixed in dark hair.  I resemble George Clooney.

 

That is essentially what you said about your dad’s swing.  Yes there are a few superficial similarities, but you could do that with any tour players swing.    
 

The reason these kinds of comparisons are dangerous, it happened in another thread.  I commented about an OP firing right hip and knee early and bringing his right heel up early.  A responder commented on Justin Thomas being an early heel lifter.  That’s misleading on two accounts.  
 

One, an outlier that’s an elite player doesn’t justify someone struggling to be able to do it.  You can literally find a small number of tour players that has every single swing fault that plagues and holds back the average golfer.  Ray Floyd rolling it inside, Jack Nicklaus early extending, David Toms having arms trailing, Bruce Lietzski being very over the top, Collin Montgomery swaying hips in backswing excessively…..I could go on.

 

Two, the OP in that thread lifted his heel  early for a completely different reason than Thomas.  
 

Tour player swings have one value.  When you diagnose why an average golfer isn’t hitting the ball better, you use a tour player or two that do that movement very well to show the golfer a visual of what they’re trying to accomplish.

 

You don’t find a swing that has a few superficial similarities and use that to find some analysis that can be helpful.

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 

Tour player swings have one value.  When you diagnose why an average golfer isn’t hitting the ball better, you use a tour player or two that do that movement very well to show the golfer a visual of what they’re trying to accomplish.

 

You don’t find a swing that has a few superficial similarities and use that to find some analysis that can be helpful.

 

 

I agree with that however, for example say someone has no lower body rotation on the downswing so the instructor does a comparison of DJ to show how to rotate more since he does it very well. Your student is a middle aged office worker, average height. He's not going to do most of what DJ does or have the body to actually get rotation like that. He would be better off being shown Rose as an example of rotation who isn't known for rotation being a strength but is within a good standard for a decent golf swing. 

[MonteScheinblum]

13 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

 

I agree with that however, for example say someone has no lower body rotation on the downswing so the instructor does a comparison of DJ to show how to rotate more since he does it very well. Your student is a middle aged office worker, average height. He's not going to do most of what DJ does or have the body to actually get rotation like that. He would be better off being shown Rose as an example of rotation who isn't known for rotation being a strength but is within a good standard for a decent golf swing. 

There is a flaw in your premise.  No lower body rotation is not a fault….or at least a root cause fault.  Rotate more is never…or should never be the prescription.  Rotate differently by moving left hip back instead of right hip, yes.  Rotate more and look like DJ, no.

 

[MK7Golf21]

15 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There is a flaw in your premise.  No lower body rotation is not a fault….or at least a root cause fault.  Rotate more is never…or should never be the prescription.  Rotate differently by moving left hip back instead of right hip, yes.  Rotate more and look like DJ, no.

 

 

Right, and you would have to be very careful to explain that amount of rotation etc. is unattainable for your student if you threw up DJ as a comparison for moving left hip back instead of right even though he does it well. Be better off bringing up Rose or since we are talking about it, Xanders swing for left hip back instead of right hip.

Edited May 25 by MK7Golf21

[Gsea]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes there are a few superficial similarities, but you could do that with any tour players swing.    

This, close it up Ray

[GwrxMod]

We're done here.