An amateur's tournament lament

[italianstallion]

I’m trying to get my thoughts out and process recent situations I’ve encountered in tournaments. When I was younger I didn’t have a good swing that held up under any sort of pressure, and I’d very easily shoot in the 90s in tournaments because of it. Lots of bad memories from that time, and ultimately I gave up tournaments for a while. Ten years ago I moved to a state where the competition is significantly stronger than where I came from, so when I got the itch for competitive golf again I knew I had to revamp my swing. I spent five years getting to a point where I can now reliably trust my golf swing, and even working a full time job, owning a home, and having a wife my handicap is lower than it ever was in my youth.

In the past couple of years I’ve managed to win three local amateur events, shoot even par or one or two over in a bunch I haven’t won, and I’ve shot in the mid-70s in a couple of USGA qualifiers. Those mid-70s rounds weren’t good enough to qualify, but overall I’m happy with how my mental game has progressed from where it was in the past to where I’m at now being able to shoot such scores against stronger fields on harder courses.

However for some reason this year, even though all aspects of my game are at their literal peak, I’m struggling with big number avoidance. One tournament I shot a 90 where on three different holes I pumped my first two tee shots OB and was hitting my fifth shots off the tee. Another state qualifier I was 2 over through 11 holes and, fully committed to the tee shot on the 12th hole I wanted to execute, I blew that tee shot 70 yards right of my target OB en-route to a triple bogey. Three holes later I did the same thing again, and just elected to walk off knowing at that point the day was long over. This past weekend in a USGA qualifier I hit my opening tee shot OB in an area I wasn’t even looking at, and then went bogey, bogey, bogey. Then on the fifth hole I blew my tee shot OB again and elected to head for the car.  Never angry, never visibly upset, I just shook my playing partner’s hands and left. Disappointed in myself more than anything, disappointed I feel I have no control over when and how badly these shots appear. I hate walking off the golf course because I enjoy trying to grind out a round, but when things like that happen I’d rather not see the nightmare through.

Right now I’m just feeling very spent about where these massive OB tee balls come from. They happen with driver most frequently, they happen when I’m as committed to the shot as any other, and they don’t necessarily happen on tight holes or wide open holes. They just happen. I play my practice rounds hitting multiple kinds of shots to get comfortable with the tee shots. Leading into the week of a tournament I work on the areas that I’m weakest on at that point in time, and a day or two before I do a mock range session where I visualize each hole and play each shot (pre-shot routine and all) as if I was actually playing the tournament. I’m always nervous, but I’ve learned how to not let nerves get the best of me, and I’ve performed very well in situations where the nerves have ratcheted up as the rounds went on. Sure I’ve had my collapses under pressure too, but I’ve accepted I’m not a professional and that stuff happens. In short, its got to be a mental thing, and I’m not quite sure what else to do to address prevention of these shots when the mental state that I’m in doesn’t feel any different from any other shot. Maybe my over analysis is what causes them; my subconscious causes my body to manifest my fear of watching a ball inexplicably sail off the planet. 

Obviously this is different than a swing advice thread, and I can’t wire anybody into my mind, but after this past weekend I’m just writing this to try and process my thoughts. Thanks for allowing me to.
 

[vandyfan]

19 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

Obviously this is different than a swing advice thread, and I can’t wire anybody into my mind, but after this past weekend I’m just writing this to try and process my thoughts. Thanks for allowing me to.

 

Sounds like you are going through it. Applaud you for putting it down on (electronic) paper and trying to process it. I don't have any advice as I would wager you are significantly better than I am but I'm pulling for you. 

[jda]

Is Bagger Vance a real guy?  Can we find him?

 

Do you have any high pressure activities from your youth that you can lean on?  Clutch free throws where half the gym is silent and the other half blows an air horn as you start your stroke?  Penalty kicks or stuff?  Public speaking or solo performances?

 

See if you can find a local to talk to or play with that does not have this problem.  Have a discussion before/during rounds.  They don't have to be better than you.  Even a 10 handicap that executes without nerves can be a help - does what they want nearly all of the time even if what they can do will not win a lot.  See if there is a local chapter on WRX that has some folks who can help with this.

 

I am not a sports phycologist kind of guy, but some people are.  No experience with this, but some have sworn that it helps with he-who-shall-not-be-named (spelled backwards: spiY.)

 

Maybe a playing lesson with a coach that deals more with approach, nerves, course management and stuff rather than swings and technique?

 

I coach HS golf and when this happens with the kids, we tell them to own who they are.  They don't have to like it, but this is what they are... for right now.  Once they do this, then they can get past the frustration, disappointment and anger (they get really angry like teenagers often do), and can move forward.  The path forward is different for everybody but acceptance is nearly always the first step.  Most of them see the worry and anticipation melt away once they accept this TO THE CORE - does not fix it all, but it really helps.  Bad false equivalency here: it is similar to when somebody with anxiety realizes that what really happened was never as bad as they thought that it would be; then, they stop being AS anxious in the future.

 

With the kids who just think too much, we have the others make noise, jump at them, do back-off jokes, clap, surprise them and all kinds of other things until they can execute without really thinking too much about anything.  Again, they have to admit to themselves what they are first.

 

I imagine that you know this, but stay next time and just change it up.  Just do anything else different.  Take those extra holes to just work on you.  Mentally end the nightmare on 11 (or whatever) and dream something for the next 7 holes.  Dream anything different.  Just tee it up and swing without more than a glance at the fairway or practice swing?  Forget your routine?  Swing harder?  No glove?  Something?  Anything?  Full acceptance of the bad situation and just wing anything new.  The worst thing that can happen is that you play the same, but this time, you did it outside of your normal - nothing lost.  The best thing that can happen is that you learn something about yourself.

[Pepperturbo]

6 hours ago, italianstallion said:

I’m trying to get my thoughts out and process recent situations I’ve encountered in tournaments. When I was younger I didn’t have a good swing that held up under any sort of pressure, and I’d very easily shoot in the 90s in tournaments because of it. Lots of bad memories from that time, and ultimately I gave up tournaments for a while. Ten years ago I moved to a state where the competition is significantly stronger than where I came from, so when I got the itch for competitive golf again I knew I had to revamp my swing. I spent five years getting to a point where I can now reliably trust my golf swing, and even working a full time job, owning a home, and having a wife my handicap is lower than it ever was in my youth.

In the past couple of years I’ve managed to win three local amateur events, shoot even par or one or two over in a bunch I haven’t won, and I’ve shot in the mid-70s in a couple of USGA qualifiers. Those mid-70s rounds weren’t good enough to qualify, but overall I’m happy with how my mental game has progressed from where it was in the past to where I’m at now being able to shoot such scores against stronger fields on harder courses.

However for some reason this year, even though all aspects of my game are at their literal peak, I’m struggling with big number avoidance. One tournament I shot a 90 where on three different holes I pumped my first two tee shots OB and was hitting my fifth shots off the tee. Another state qualifier I was 2 over through 11 holes and, fully committed to the tee shot on the 12th hole I wanted to execute, I blew that tee shot 70 yards right of my target OB en-route to a triple bogey. Three holes later I did the same thing again, and just elected to walk off knowing at that point the day was long over. This past weekend in a USGA qualifier I hit my opening tee shot OB in an area I wasn’t even looking at, and then went bogey, bogey, bogey. Then on the fifth hole I blew my tee shot OB again and elected to head for the car.  Never angry, never visibly upset, I just shook my playing partner’s hands and left. Disappointed in myself more than anything, disappointed I feel I have no control over when and how badly these shots appear. I hate walking off the golf course because I enjoy trying to grind out a round, but when things like that happen I’d rather not see the nightmare through.

Right now I’m just feeling very spent about where these massive OB tee balls come from. They happen with driver most frequently, they happen when I’m as committed to the shot as any other, and they don’t necessarily happen on tight holes or wide open holes. They just happen. I play my practice rounds hitting multiple kinds of shots to get comfortable with the tee shots. Leading into the week of a tournament I work on the areas that I’m weakest on at that point in time, and a day or two before I do a mock range session where I visualize each hole and play each shot (pre-shot routine and all) as if I was actually playing the tournament. I’m always nervous, but I’ve learned how to not let nerves get the best of me, and I’ve performed very well in situations where the nerves have ratcheted up as the rounds went on. Sure I’ve had my collapses under pressure too, but I’ve accepted I’m not a professional and that stuff happens. In short, its got to be a mental thing, and I’m not quite sure what else to do to address prevention of these shots when the mental state that I’m in doesn’t feel any different from any other shot. Maybe my over analysis is what causes them; my subconscious causes my body to manifest my fear of watching a ball inexplicably sail off the planet. 

Obviously this is different than a swing advice thread, and I can’t wire anybody into my mind, but after this past weekend I’m just writing this to try and process my thoughts. Thanks for allowing me to.
 

Given it happens without regard to conditions, sounds like you have something going on in your head that you're not acknowledging exists.  It doesn't matter how good a person is at golf, he/she can get in their own way of progress, because of some hidden fear.   

 

Fears don't manifest themselves when circumstances are unimportant; they show up when pressure is mounting and execution is critically important.  That's when it could be as simple as underlying guilt that sees golf achievement is taking away from your family, wife or your career.  The point is look deeper, past the obvious.

[SNIPERBBB]

You say you were committed to those shots ...but were you focused on the shot?

Edited June 10 by SNIPERBBB

[getitdaily]

Hey nick dunlap, you won twice on tour, why are you playing in usga qualifiers?

[LongNwrong27]

If you’re pumping multiple balls OB on the same hole multiple times in a round that either speaks to generally over aggressive targets or a decent swing flaw that manifests most often under pressure. 1 OB ball doesn’t ruin you but multiple is pretty much game over unless rest of the round is flawless. 
 

Are all these OB balls in the same direction like the 70 yd right ball? 
 

it’s good you’re staying composed and in your process, everyone hates playing with the guy losing his cool and making everyone else around them miserable. 
 

personally think what you’re describing is far more physical/swing related than mental necessarily. 

[golferdude54]

"I've been singing solo acts in concerts but I'm getting boo'ed off the stage, why is that? I'm Yoko Ono BTW." Take a good hard look in the mirror, or in this case, your swing on video, and work on the flaws. 70 yards offline doesn't come mentally, it comes from a physical swing flaw.

[italianstallion]

Thanks you all for all the responses. @jda your insight about owning who you are is especially poignant. That’s the good thing that comes with age, you learn to accept who you are and what you’re capable of. Problem with me is while I accept that I’m going to go through this at times, I also have had success and feel I should be capable of that more often, or at least more consistent in it. I can play good golf, but even when I tell myself that it doesn’t always manifest. I’ll try and stick it out next time. But yes, I do truly handle myself as calm and collected when this stuff happens and at least I can look back on that and live with it. That’s another good thing that has come with age: realization that nobody wants to be around someone who is cursing or tossing clubs or anything like that. I played a tournament with someone once who literally dismantled every club over his knee after a bad hole…that was not fun to watch.

 

@Pepperturbo maybe you’re on to something here. I’ve got a great career with a great company and a great supportive wife. But come tournament season time I’m hitting the range 2/3 times a week and playing once a week. This particular tournament was 2 hours away and required a day off to do it. So 9 hours away from home, plus a day off work. Maybe I wanted to make all that time investment “worth it.” Could have also been that I allow doubt to creep into my head too quickly. Rounds that start with birdie or even par are easier to settle in to than those that start with double bogeys. Having to grind right out of the gate can feel a tall task, but I know I’m capable of 2-4 birdies in a row at times. 
 

@SNIPERBBB there also might be some truth to what you’re saying. I’ve read just about all of Rotella’s books on the matter, and one of the greatest things I carry with me is that while I can’t control the outcome of the shot, I can control my commitment to the shot. I’ll back off if I’m not committed. But like you said, commitment doesn’t equate to focus. I was committed to the targets I picked out, but was I fully focused on the shot? Maybe I was worried about trouble, maybe I hadn’t painted a clear mental picture of how I wanted the shot to be shaped. I will say this: I seem to perform much better on courses that clearly define where to hit the ball. For example, I love playing golden age architecture (Tillinghast, Ross, MacKenzie, etc.) and modern stuff  (Strantz, Dye, C&C, Doak, etc.). These are courses that set up better to my eye, either through use of visual hazards such as bunkers, water, mounds, or through how the holes are shaped and bend.  Where I seem to struggle are on basic courses routed through subdivisions. OB usually in play on one or both sides, with straight holes that have no visual interest or clearly defined target to try and challenge. I can move the ball both ways, but then maybe I become indecisive on what the best shape is to use on such straight holes. Lack of visual interest leads to a lack of focus. 
 

@LongNwrong27 I think you might be right, but I think that swing flaw only manifests itself in certain situations. This is a video of me hitting driver on a tight hole lined with OB on both sides, maybe 60 yards wide. This was the first tee shot I ever hit on this hole, and I ended up hitting a good one. I recognize I don’t have a perfect swing, but I also recognize there’s a lot of things that are right with it. Regardless, I would love to video and see the difference between the swing I made here and the swings that lead to disasters in tournaments. Is it tempo related, setup related, or is there truly a weakness in this swing that collapses at times. 
 

Again, thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. 
 

 

 

[PedronNiall]

4 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

Thanks you all for all the responses. @jda your insight about owning who you are is especially poignant. That’s the good thing that comes with age, you learn to accept who you are and what you’re capable of. Problem with me is while I accept that I’m going to go through this at times, I also have had success and feel I should be capable of that more often, or at least more consistent in it. I can play good golf, but even when I tell myself that it doesn’t always manifest. I’ll try and stick it out next time. But yes, I do truly handle myself as calm and collected when this stuff happens and at least I can look back on that and live with it. That’s another good thing that has come with age: realization that nobody wants to be around someone who is cursing or tossing clubs or anything like that. I played a tournament with someone once who literally dismantled every club over his knee after a bad hole…that was not fun to watch.

 

@Pepperturbo maybe you’re on to something here. I’ve got a great career with a great company and a great supportive wife. But come tournament season time I’m hitting the range 2/3 times a week and playing once a week. This particular tournament was 2 hours away and required a day off to do it. So 9 hours away from home, plus a day off work. Maybe I wanted to make all that time investment “worth it.” Could have also been that I allow doubt to creep into my head too quickly. Rounds that start with birdie or even par are easier to settle in to than those that start with double bogeys. Having to grind right out of the gate can feel a tall task, but I know I’m capable of 2-4 birdies in a row at times. 
 

@SNIPERBBB there also might be some truth to what you’re saying. I’ve read just about all of Rotella’s books on the matter, and one of the greatest things I carry with me is that while I can’t control the outcome of the shot, I can control my commitment to the shot. I’ll back off if I’m not committed. But like you said, commitment doesn’t equate to focus. I was committed to the targets I picked out, but was I fully focused on the shot? Maybe I was worried about trouble, maybe I hadn’t painted a clear mental picture of how I wanted the shot to be shaped. I will say this: I seem to perform much better on courses that clearly define where to hit the ball. For example, I love playing golden age architecture (Tillinghast, Ross, MacKenzie, etc.) and modern stuff  (Strantz, Dye, C&C, Doak, etc.). These are courses that set up better to my eye, either through use of visual hazards such as bunkers, water, mounds, or through how the holes are shaped and bend.  Where I seem to struggle are on basic courses routed through subdivisions. OB usually in play on one or both sides, with straight holes that have no visual interest or clearly defined target to try and challenge. I can move the ball both ways, but then maybe I become indecisive on what the best shape is to use on such straight holes. Lack of visual interest leads to a lack of focus. 
 

@LongNwrong27 I think you might be right, but I think that swing flaw only manifests itself in certain situations. This is a video of me hitting driver on a tight hole lined with OB on both sides, maybe 60 yards wide. This was the first tee shot I ever hit on this hole, and I ended up hitting a good one. I recognize I don’t have a perfect swing, but I also recognize there’s a lot of things that are right with it. Regardless, I would love to video and see the difference between the swing I made here and the swings that lead to disasters in tournaments. Is it tempo related, setup related, or is there truly a weakness in this swing that collapses at times. 
 

Again, thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. 
 

IMG_3776.mov 36.04 MB · 0 downloads  

 

 

Before getting into a deep dive on mechanics or the mental, what's your equipment fitting like regarding your driver? Does it have a fade bias? How's the shaft feel for you? Just wondering if you simply get amped up and load it more than normal which could produce those pushes over and over. 

 

Or am I reading too much into things and your OB misses are alternating sides of the course? 

[italianstallion]

1 minute ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Before getting into a deep dive on mechanics or the mental, what's your equipment fitting like regarding your driver? Does it have a fade bias? How's the shaft feel for you? Just wondering if you simply get amped up and load it more than normal which could produce those pushes over and over. 

 

Or am I reading too much into things and your OB misses are alternating sides of the course? 

The big OB miss has been right this year. I use to miss left when setting up for a cut and just hitting a straight pull along where my feet were aimed, but I’ve been working the past year to eliminate that tendency. In the two recent tournaments I described where I packed it in early, every tee ball lost I was set up for a cut and hit a high block fade/slice. So I guess the positive (if any) is I miss moving the ball the direction I’m trying to move it. My old driver was an OG SIM with Oban Kiyoshi Black 06, and I just got into a Ping G440 LST with a blue Velocore + 6x. Both clubs seemingly have a natural fade bias. 

[Asics10]

Golf is hard.  Last week Rory, yes that Rory, one of the greatest players in the last 10 years, needed to make birdie on 18 to shoot 79 last week.  No offense but you are not Rory. Golf is freaking hard. Go through your process and accept the outcome. If swing flaws need fixing, grind. If you are making mental errors such as starting lines/targets, etc. Fix your game plan. But hitting a few balls OB is just part of the game. Shoot Nick Dunlap shot 90 at the Masters, and he gets paid to play. Change your mentality, golf is hard. 

[PedronNiall]

7 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

The big OB miss has been right this year. I use to miss left when setting up for a cut and just hitting a straight pull along where my feet were aimed, but I’ve been working the past year to eliminate that tendency. In the two recent tournaments I described where I packed it in early, every tee ball lost I was set up for a cut and hit a high block fade/slice. So I guess the positive (if any) is I miss moving the ball the direction I’m trying to move it. My old driver was an OG SIM with Oban Kiyoshi Black 06, and I just got into a Ping G440 LST with a blue Velocore + 6x. Both clubs seemingly have a natural fade bias. 

 

I'd make sure the shaft holds up even when you go all out. If you're loading it more than normal in those amped up moments it could easily be the culprit. 

 

I'd also test on the range and be aware of how much each setup element effects you're biases. If I got my stance slightly open at address it surprised me at times how hard of a cut I hit, but it makes sense given that the shoulders and hips already tend towards being open, so adding the stance to it is doing all the body can to encourage lots of push. Open the face as well or hit a fade biased driver and you can nail it dead center and send it curving right like no other. I'd bet just setting up the face and maybe ball position for a little cut as needed may get you more consistency. 

 

Could also just be a tiny bit late on your arms firing when you're under pressure. Something to pay attention to when you can get a driver session with face on video and maybe some driver swings late in normal rounds to check. 

 

Whatever's going on I don't think there's anything to stress too hard about. Be systematic and you can track it down. A single miss hints that it's not a major swing fault and just by the sound of things it's probably not mental. 

[gentles]

52 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

The big OB miss has been right this year. I use to miss left when setting up for a cut and just hitting a straight pull along where my feet were aimed, but I’ve been working the past year to eliminate that tendency. In the two recent tournaments I described where I packed it in early, every tee ball lost I was set up for a cut and hit a high block fade/slice. So I guess the positive (if any) is I miss moving the ball the direction I’m trying to move it. My old driver was an OG SIM with Oban Kiyoshi Black 06, and I just got into a Ping G440 LST with a blue Velocore + 6x. Both clubs seemingly have a natural fade bias. 

I know it’s cliche to say on here but I genuinely think that a max head driver with high moi might provide the type of “safety blanket” that can free you up under the pump.
 

Even it’s all in your head I think there is something liberating about knowing you don’t have to be perfect. I can’t remember where I read it but I’ve seen it written somewhere that ping drivers have staved off more than a few cases of the driver yips 

[golferdude54]

Arms are getting stuck behind lower body in downswing so you sling the club out to the right after impact. Try using one of those Gankas G-box and your startline should get tighter.

[Jtgavigan]

I also am a low handicap player who has a big miss (usually left) come in when least expected. Recently,  I hit 15 greens in regulation. My only 3 misses? Penalties off the tee. Would have hit those 3 as well. 

 

For me, I tend to lose posture at impact, which stands the shaft up. Also, if I look at sequencing, my hands are always behind my right thigh at p6, which tells me my body is ahead of my hands. Some days, I manage that well. Others....well..not so much.

 

The reason I say this, is my first thought when reading your post was that you have a fatal flaw that you usually manage, but sometimes pressure makes it come out and you don't manage it. Never seen you swing, but it is definitely a stone I would turn over. 

 

I thought it was mental. Thought it was alignment. Pretty much everything but a true flaw. Worth a look.

[cardoustie]

Rocky never quit buddy

 

thanks for the detailed share, takes some guts

 

@Valtiel will dissect your swing I’m sure 

 

solid action in my opinion, looks repeatable 

 

do you block other clubs or just driver?  3 wood?  What’s your 3w shaft?

 

step 1 for me, a reprobate equipment junkie, that drives it on a rope fwiw, is for you to try a heavier shaft, and perhaps a little shorter.  Get the swingweight up closer to your other clubs perhaps

 

if you’re only downfall is a block, or previously a snipe with the big dog, that is usually a path problem and I would tell you that’s a good thing.  You know your problem and can work on it to solve it

 

blocks are also a problem if you tend to get ahead of the ball under pressure, stay behind it a crazy amount on the range and see what happens 

 

have you hit drives on a Trackman?  When I had your two misses I was waaaaay inside out, 14 degrees !  It’s an easily fixable problem

[DShepley]

44 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Rocky never quit buddy

 

thanks for the detailed share, takes some guts

 

@Valtiel will dissect your swing I’m sure 

 

solid action in my opinion, looks repeatable 

 

do you block other clubs or just driver?  3 wood?  What’s your 3w shaft?

 

step 1 for me, a reprobate equipment junkie, that drives it on a rope fwiw, is for you to try a heavier shaft, and perhaps a little shorter.  Get the swingweight up closer to your other clubs perhaps

 

if you’re only downfall is a block, or previously a snipe with the big dog, that is usually a path problem and I would tell you that’s a good thing.  You know your problem and can work on it to solve it

 

blocks are also a problem if you tend to get ahead of the ball under pressure, stay behind it a crazy amount on the range and see what happens 

 

have you hit drives on a Trackman?  When I had your two misses I was waaaaay inside out, 14 degrees !  It’s an easily fixable problem

14 degrees, yikes.  I bet that was a surprise.  Were you hitting up too much as well?  That is block and hook city and trouble under pressure.  Over time I tend to creep into a ball position that gets too far forward and a tee height that is too high.  When I start driving it poorly the answer is almost always to tee it lower and move it back in my stance a hair.

 

I watche a YouTube video with Tiger and Grant Horvat that was great where Tiger showed him what he did when he had to hit it in the fairway.  Crazy to see how low he tees the ball.  (at about 8:20 in the video below).

 

[italianstallion]

58 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Rocky never quit buddy

 

thanks for the detailed share, takes some guts

 

@Valtiel will dissect your swing I’m sure 

 

solid action in my opinion, looks repeatable 

 

do you block other clubs or just driver?  3 wood?  What’s your 3w shaft?

 

step 1 for me, a reprobate equipment junkie, that drives it on a rope fwiw, is for you to try a heavier shaft, and perhaps a little shorter.  Get the swingweight up closer to your other clubs perhaps

 

if you’re only downfall is a block, or previously a snipe with the big dog, that is usually a path problem and I would tell you that’s a good thing.  You know your problem and can work on it to solve it

 

blocks are also a problem if you tend to get ahead of the ball under pressure, stay behind it a crazy amount on the range and see what happens 

 

have you hit drives on a Trackman?  When I had your two misses I was waaaaay inside out, 14 degrees !  It’s an easily fixable problem

I was actually on a Trackman a few weeks ago doing some driver work with my instructor. I’ve got two drives recorded on film. We were working on teeing the ball low and hitting a straight shot and then a fade. 
 

This first video and shot data is from the straight shot we were trying to execute: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The next data here is from the fade we were trying to execute: 

 

 

 

 

 

Finally here’s a smattering of the club path/face angle data from that lesson:

 

[getitdaily]

19 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

I was actually on a Trackman a few weeks ago doing some driver work with my instructor. I’ve got two drives recorded on film. We were working on teeing the ball low and hitting a straight shot and then a fade. 
 

This first video and shot data is from the straight shot we were trying to execute: 

 

 

 

ScreenRecording_06-11-2025 09-03-55_1.mov 6.78 MB · 1 download  

 

 

ScreenRecording_06-11-2025 09-04-17_1.mov 26.29 MB · 0 downloads  

 

The next data here is from the fade we were trying to execute: 

 

 

 

IMG_4334.mov 6.45 MB · 0 downloads  

 

 

ScreenRecording_06-11-2025 09-06-26_1.mov 5.66 MB · 0 downloads  

Finally here’s a smattering of the club path/face angle data from that lesson:

 

You've got ZERO consistency in path. 12 shots with + path and 8 with negative path (avoiding out to in and in to out terminology here). 

 

Our release pattern is tied to path. Release pattern is what controls face. Get your path consistently in one direction...either in to out or out to in. You'll then find a consistent release pattern to control the face.

[wagolfer7]

22 hours ago, italianstallion said:

Another state qualifier I was 2 over through 11 holes and, fully committed to the tee shot on the 12th hole I wanted to execute, I blew that tee shot 70 yards right of my target OB en-route to a triple bogey. Three holes later I did the same thing again, and just elected to walk off knowing at that point the day was long over. This past weekend in a USGA qualifier I hit my opening tee shot OB in an area I wasn’t even looking at, and then went bogey, bogey, bogey. Then on the fifth hole I blew my tee shot OB again and elected to head for the car.  Never angry, never visibly upset, I just shook my playing partner’s hands and left. Disappointed in myself more than anything, disappointed I feel I have no control over when and how badly these shots appear. I hate walking off the golf course because I enjoy trying to grind out a round, but when things like that happen I’d rather not see the nightmare through.

 

 

Golf is about integrity, etiquette and competition. 

 

I feel your pain.  A lot of us that do more serious competition have had bad experiences. 

 

But walking off the course mid rounds in competition? That's just bad sportsmanship. Your physically quitting when you have a run of bad scores and shots and mentally your probably quitting earlier.

 

I wouldn't sign up for large qualifying events unless your willing to finish the rounds. Good luck with figuring stuff out. But someone has got to point out that quitting in state qualifiers is just having a poor attitude and being a poor competitor. 

[me05501]

Good thread. 

 

Maybe dig into precisely how you aim your tee shots.

 

I've learned that my mind works better using a very distant and tall target for tee shots...even better if the target is outside the bounds of the hole I'm playing.

 

Using a far-distant target keeps me from seeing or thinking about the trouble on the hole and lets me execute the shot more or less in a vacuum. It's also easy to practice this on the range so it becomes second nature. 

 

You might do better with an intermediate target for the same reason. It's worth the time to figure it out. 

[italianstallion]

10 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

Golf is about integrity, etiquette and competition. 

 

I feel your pain.  A lot of us that do more serious competition have had bad experiences. 

 

But walking off the course mid rounds in competition? That's just bad sportsmanship. Your physically quitting when you have a run of bad scores and shots and mentally your probably quitting earlier.

 

I wouldn't sign up for large qualifying events unless your willing to finish the rounds. Good luck with figuring stuff out. But someone has got to point out that quitting in state qualifiers is just having a poor attitude and being a poor competitor. 

If I’m playing with guys who are playing well, my blowing shots all over the place doesn’t help their day. My actions came from a place of respect for my competitors, but that’s my outlook and my opinion. Bad sportsmanship would be making a fuss about hitting it poorly, being a distraction, then huffing and puffing while walking off without removing my cap, shaking their hands, and apologizing for taking off. I’ve seen myself through plenty of rounds where I didn’t want to be there. While I agree it’s not great, I don’t view how I handled the situations as bad sportsmanship. 

[jaffabell]

20 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

Golf is about integrity, etiquette and competition. 

 

I feel your pain.  A lot of us that do more serious competition have had bad experiences. 

 

But walking off the course mid rounds in competition? That's just bad sportsmanship. Your physically quitting when you have a run of bad scores and shots and mentally your probably quitting earlier.

 

I wouldn't sign up for large qualifying events unless your willing to finish the rounds. Good luck with figuring stuff out. But someone has got to point out that quitting in state qualifiers is just having a poor attitude and being a poor competitor. 

A counter argument would be the qualifiers for the majors - looks how many of the top pro's withdraw either part way through the round or after round 1 if having a nightmare. Loads and loads. Not worth their time to continue.

 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, cardoustie said:

Rocky never quit buddy

 

thanks for the detailed share, takes some guts

 

@Valtiel will dissect your swing I’m sure 

 

solid action in my opinion, looks repeatable 

 

do you block other clubs or just driver?  3 wood?  What’s your 3w shaft?

 

step 1 for me, a reprobate equipment junkie, that drives it on a rope fwiw, is for you to try a heavier shaft, and perhaps a little shorter.  Get the swingweight up closer to your other clubs perhaps

 

if you’re only downfall is a block, or previously a snipe with the big dog, that is usually a path problem and I would tell you that’s a good thing.  You know your problem and can work on it to solve it

 

blocks are also a problem if you tend to get ahead of the ball under pressure, stay behind it a crazy amount on the range and see what happens 

 

have you hit drives on a Trackman?  When I had your two misses I was waaaaay inside out, 14 degrees !  It’s an easily fixable problem

LOL I'm terrible at golf compared to you guys but i have noticed something on Mevo+ that I thought of while reading your post. 

 

There is a 3D club analysis option and recently I put it on screen for fun mostly.  After quite a while I slowly began to notice that when I hit a big block the analyzer shows my hands way past the ball at impact while the big pull hook shows my hands way behind the ball at impact.  For me it seems like a good idea to get the clubshaft perpendicular to the target line at impact on that particular piece of software.

[jda]

13 hours ago, italianstallion said:

@jda your insight about owning who you are is especially poignant. That’s the good thing that comes with age, you learn to accept who you are and what you’re capable of. Problem with me is while I accept that I’m going to go through this at times, I also have had success and feel I should be capable of that more often, or at least more consistent in it. I can play good golf, but even when I tell myself that it doesn’t always manifest.

 

Accepting that you are going to go through this every once in a while is not the same as accepting that this is what you are.  There is at least one more step to take.  It does not seem like you should expect to have a level of success any better than this yet.  Yet.  Have the guy who does not manifest enter a tournament soon, expect to shoot 90 and to hit 6 balls OB.  See how you do.  Leave the guy who expects to better at home.

 

While all of these folks might be right that this or that could be tweaked with your swing, you still should be able to make that swing work when you need it to under pressure.  The best of the best can get 100% results out of 95% swing.  That is better than getting 80% of 100% swing.

 

Are you capable of just hitting a straight ball?  I don't practice or really warm up anymore and my number is not what it used to be, but still not bad or anything.  I just play nothing but straight balls anymore - no more working them.  Easier to know what I am going to get with only one move.  This has raised my floor almost to my ceiling (not quite, of course).

[jda]

BTW - having these tough thoughts/moments with yourself or others is very excellent.  Don't be too hard on yourself or discount what this means - it is mostly positive.  Many would deny the hard truth (especially on WRX), buy a different driver, or something, and/or just pout about it.  Well done.

[wagolfer7]

39 minutes ago, italianstallion said:

If I’m playing with guys who are playing well, my blowing shots all over the place doesn’t help their day. My actions came from a place of respect for my competitors, but that’s my outlook and my opinion. Bad sportsmanship would be making a fuss about hitting it poorly, being a distraction, then huffing and puffing while walking off without removing my cap, shaking their hands, and apologizing for taking off. I’ve seen myself through plenty of rounds where I didn’t want to be there. While I agree it’s not great, I don’t view how I handled the situations as bad sportsmanship. 

 

Yes that's your opinion.  But your playing partners probably have a different opinion.  

 

23 hours ago, italianstallion said:

Another state qualifier I was 2 over through 11 holes and, fully committed to the tee shot on the 12th hole I wanted to execute, I blew that tee shot 70 yards right of my target OB en-route to a triple bogey. Three holes later I did the same thing again, and just elected to walk off knowing at that point the day was long over.
 

 

How is this out of respect for your playing partners?  You play 14 holes with them, but as soon as you know you aren't making the cut, you walk off the course.  Again it's just bad sportsmanship.  It's not match play where you can just concede a match.  It's stroke play for 18 holes.    

 

28 minutes ago, jaffabell said:

A counter argument would be the qualifiers for the majors - looks how many of the top pro's withdraw either part way through the round or after round 1 if having a nightmare. Loads and loads. Not worth their time to continue.

 

 

Withdrawing after completing a round is different than walking off mid round on your playing partners.  I don't believe outside of illness and injury is this very common at all.  

 

State Qualifiers have limited spots, are paired around the total number of competitors with pace of play in mind, other playing partners are required to keep score for other players, etc.  If you aren't willing to finish the round if your not going to have a good day, give your spot to someone else who will.  

 

Not sure why I need to try to prove that quitting in a match of any sport is poor sportsmanship.  

 

Also this is not the OP Topic.  So my apologies for taking this off the rails a bit.  Good luck @italianstallion I hope you get it figured out and have more success in the future.  

Edited June 11 by wagolfer7

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

How is this out of respect for your playing partners?  You play 14 holes with them, but as soon as you know you aren't making the cut, you walk off the course.  Again it's just bad sportsmanship.  It's not match play where you can just concede a match.  It's stroke play for 18 holes.    

 

Withdrawing after completing a round is different than walking off mid round on your playing partners.  I don't believe outside of illness and injury is this very common at all.

While in general I would lean toward agreeing with you, I don’t think it’s nearly as cut and dry as you are wanting to make it.

 

I had to play with a guy in a PAT who shot a radio station for both rounds and I certainly would have preferred if he could have withdrawn. He couldn’t because they have rules about withdrawing for reasons other than an injury but it was a distraction that did me no favors.

 

Also, plenty of players (including or especially Tour players) withdraw mid-round if they know they aren’t going to make the cut in U.S. Open or British Open qualifiers.

[italianstallion]

2 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

State Qualifiers have limited spots, are paired around the total number of competitors with pace of play in mind, other playing partners are required to keep score for other players, etc.  If you aren't willing to finish the round if you’re not going to have a good day, give your spot to someone else who will.  

I think that part is a fair take. I don’t think it’s bad sportsmanship though. Again, I met the qualification requirements so I entered. My entry and whether I finish or not is a sunk cost to the entry field. If I’m at a point where I’m no longer capable of qualifying but I’m forcing my playing partners who do have a chance of qualifying watch my ball sail off the earth before they have to hit their shot or spend their time searching for my ball, then I still think it’s respectful to them that I just get out of the way.