What are my arms doing?!

[KGrinols]

I live in BFE and the closest lessons are roughly 2 hours away, so YouTube has been my only source of learning.

I have zero expectations that a 100 different 10 minute videos, from 50 different channels/people, would magically result in a fault free swing, but this year I've decided to take the game more seriously and since doing so, have had 5 of my best rounds in a row.

Rather than enjoying it, I'd rather just tear down the swing and ensure I'm working towards long term progress, rather than bad habits that will be harder to break.

 

Here's a backyard swing from yesterday evening.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the sequencing and rates/amounts of how you pivot.

 

I'd record a swing of you gripping the hosel end of the shaft (like you're going to swing the grip end to hit a ball, but don't hit a ball), and make a three-second long backswing. It doesn't even matter if you make a downswing.

 

Record that from FO and DL and post that. Then you can start getting somewhere.

 

Also, online lessons exist.

[KGrinols]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the sequencing and rates/amounts of how you pivot.

 

I'd record a swing of you gripping the hosel end of the shaft (like you're going to swing the grip end to hit a ball, but don't hit a ball), and make a three-second long backswing. It doesn't even matter if you make a downswing.

 

Record that from FO and DL and post that. Then you can start getting somewhere.

 

Also, online lessons exist.

I assume by 3 second long you mean do it in slow motion, if not boy will I feel silly, but as requested:

 

Down the line

 

 

Face On

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

There’s a drill you need to do hundreds of.  I posted it a while ago and couldn’t find it.

Hover the club over the ball, then go to this spot passed impact and make a backswing and hit it all in one motion without stopping.  You need to develop some cohesive motion before worrying about anything else.

 

[Nickc]

This may be useful - includes maybe similar drill Monte mentions at about 3:30.

 

 

Edited June 11 by Nickc

[sundaypins]

11 hours ago, KGrinols said:

 I'd rather just tear down the swing and ensure I'm working towards long term progress, rather than bad habits that will be harder to break.

 

There is a lot to tear down so lessons are a priority, online if you must. 

[iacas]

8 hours ago, KGrinols said:

I assume by 3 second long you mean do it in slow motion, if not boy will I feel silly, but as requested:

 

You did what I meant, yes.

 

Basically, your backswing is like 12 different motions, and they're all out of sequence, or of the wrong magnitudes, etc.

 

Compare your backswing position, to, say… this image:

 

[KGrinols]

6 hours ago, Nickc said:

This may be useful - includes maybe similar drill Monte mentions at about 3:30.

 

I do this fairly regularly, but based on the above comments I'm doing it in the wrong order/sequence, so repeating it seems counter intuitive, as it would just reinforce my current swing.

 

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Basically, your backswing is like 12 different motions, and they're all out of sequence, or of the wrong magnitudes, etc.

 

I believe you, but man this seems crazy to me.  I feel and focus on only 2 movements.  Hands to P1, and then turn to the top.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, KGrinols said:

I believe you, but man this seems crazy to me.  I feel and focus on only 2 movements.  Hands to P1, and then turn to the top.

 

I like what @MonteScheinblum said, and IMO you need a big reset. Your real swing and your 3-second backswing aren't really similar:

 

 

Totally different sequence. The three-second swing is SUPER arms with limited turn, the down the line is a lot of turn (which is closer to what it should be IMO), but then the second half of the backswing is…

 

 

Your right heel elevates, you lose your angles entirely… etc.

 

I don't know what your lesson history is, etc. I'd get back to or start with the really fundamental stuff of how you pivot.

[KGrinols]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I like what @MonteScheinblum said, and IMO you need a big reset. Your real swing and your 3-second backswing aren't really similar:

 

 

Totally different sequence. The three-second swing is SUPER arms with limited turn, the down the line is a lot of turn (which is closer to what it should be IMO), but then the second half of the backswing is…

 

 

Your right heel elevates, you lose your angles entirely… etc.

 

I don't know what your lesson history is, etc. I'd get back to or start with the really fundamental stuff of how you pivot.

I'll be honest, the 3 second swing felt incredibly awkward.  I know feel isn't real, but I always feel like after my initial "push away" I'm almost just following the momentum of the club head, and letting it flow. (Throw the weight > Fast, slow, slow, catch the weight > fast)  So when that weight wasn't there and I had to try and guide the club all the way to the top with nothing but my body, it was extremely foreign.

 

I had 1 lesson 10 years ago when I lived in civilization, everything else is just whatever I can find on YouTube or by practicing/playing.

 

I went to a driver fitting 2 weeks ago and was able to  launch monitor numbers for the first time.  Which is what lead me down this path.  I was consistently leaving the face open 5-12 degrees and my shoulders were way too level, resulting in cutting across the ball, and spin numbers in the 4-6k range with the driver.

After that I was able to identify a potential issue with my shoulders, so for 2 weeks all I've been really focusing on is feeling like my right shoulder is swinging down through the ball, and that has helped significantly and brought me to where I am at the moment.

I shot my personal best last weekend and have been hitting it the best I ever have, so this was the slice of humble pie I needed. 😆

 

I appreciate your time and feedback.  Thank you.

[Nickc]

5 hours ago, KGrinols said:

I'm doing it in the wrong order/sequence

You said it!

Seriously though are you really trying to do the drills Padraig is demonstrating?

The drills are very good imo to help free your rhythm up and stop thinking about p  positions too much (plenty of time for checking those later!).

I often do similar just as swing relaxation and speed exercises ...being rather old and long in the tooth.

Thought it would be useful to restart you but up to you, regardless all the best in your journey.

 

Edit:  a last after thought if you are thinking of restarting to learn a swing I would recommend Michael Mcteigue's book "the keys to the effortless golf swing" ...the (VHS) videos accompanying the book are also on YouTube. Maybe a bit old school but nevertheless.

Padraig also has a fairly recent vid out on the back swing which is quite good imo.

 

 

 

Edited June 11 by Nickc
The edit afterthought note more to add.

[KGrinols]

6 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Seriously though are you really trying to do the drills Padraig is demonstrating?

The drills are very good imo to help free your rhythm up and stop thinking about p  positions too much (plenty of time for checking those later!).

I often do similar just as swing relaxation and speed exercises ...being rather old and long in the tooth.

Thought it would be useful to restart you but up to you, regardless all the best in your journey.

 

I *think* I am.  But you guys have me questioning quite a bit at the moment. 😂

 

I swing repeatedly like that for about 10 full swings with one of those weighted swing trainer things. (SKLZ)

Then I do it with a club 10 times.

Then I do it with an alignment stick across my shoulders 10 times (while focusing on my shoulder level and getting the stick through the ball, on an in to out path)

And then I'll repeat that cycle 1-2 more times each night.

 

I don't particularly think of positions other than P1, because previously I was extremely inside and around myself.  I feel completely free, because as mentioned above, I feel (I know, feel isn't real) like after my initial take away, I'm just following the momentum of the club head until it stalls at the top.  Then "catch" the weight, and swing down.  In my head, the club is almost swinging me to the top, not the other way around.

 

At the range I'll use a regular club, and swing through, back, repeat 4 times, and then on the 5th I'll hit a ball without stopping.  Doing the very slight "walking forward" motion, for that weight shift feeling, and inch closer to the ball each time, until the ball is in range, and hit it without stopping the pattern.

 

At the range, I'll start from the top of my back swing, and hit balls that way, to try and ensure I can swing from any point of my swing.

I'll swing 1 handed with each hand individually, and hit a few that way.

 

Closest range is about 30 minutes away, and this season I've tried to commit to going once a week (Wednesday/tonight) and hit at least 100 balls, and probably at least 2-300 swings with drills and practice between shots.  They close at 6, so I have to leave work early to get there by 5, so I can get through a large bucket before 6.

 

A few weeks ago I was out of town for the fitting.  Did the 1hr fitting Saturday, played 18 Sunday morning, and then went to a complex where they have Flight scope built into the range and the ability to check out clubs.  I hit another 170+ balls Sunday afternoon until I tore open blisters on my hand.

 

I don't know, I really felt like I was making progress for the first time, and it was supported by my scores and what I was seeing both on course/range visually, so I'm a little bit defeated since the answer is unanimously to go back to square 1 and start over, but if that's the reality, then sobeit.

 

I'm not going to argue with people clearly more knowledgeable than me who are kind enough to help, so I will need to retrain and relearn what I'm feeling vs what's actually happening.

[KD1]

On 6/10/2025 at 11:57 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

There’s a drill you need to do hundreds of.  I posted it a while ago and couldn’t find it.

 

[Valtiel]

@iacas and @MonteScheinblum already said all the things you need IMO, i'd just add that you have the same basic pattern (albeit a little less severe) as the swings you posted back in 2023 in where you have several very extreme and out of bounds movements immediately in the backswing, and you reroute yourself into swinging massively from the inside:



If we put down a mock "ball" in your address position we can see through "impact" you would have either hit this ball way off the end of the toe, and if you managed to center something a little better it's going 75y to the right of where your body is lined up unless you deliver a very shut clubface. These are all unsustainable extremes created by the similar extreme movements to start your swing. 

The tricky thing about attempting to outsource your golf education to YouTube/IG is something i've posted about before...it's a massive Dunning-Kruger/Catch 22 situation. The knowledge needed to learn remotely like this and apply concepts correctly to your own swing with zero oversight is the same knowledge that would mean all that was unnecessary. Because if any of the folks making those 10 minute videos you watched 100 of saw these positions:



If any of them truly knew anything about the golf swing they'd say what iacas and Monte did above. Some version of "please don't listen to my tips about rotation or slicing or whatever, this is all out of bounds and needs addressing on a fundamental level". 

Edited June 13 by Valtiel

[KGrinols]

31 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

@iacas and @MonteScheinblum already said all the things you need IMO, i'd just add that you have the same basic pattern (albeit a little less severe) as the swings you posted back in 2023 in where you have several very extreme and out of bounds movements immediately in the backswing, and you reroute yourself into swinging massively from the inside:



If we put down a mock "ball" in your address position we can see through "impact" you would have either hit this ball way off the end of the toe, and if you managed to center something a little better it's going 75y to the right of where your body is lined up unless you deliver a very shut clubface. These are all unsustainable extremes created by the similar extreme movements to start your swing. 

The tricky thing about attempting to outsource your golf education to YouTube/IG is something i've posted about before...it's a massive Dunning-Kruger/Catch 22 situation. The knowledge needed to learn remotely like this and apply concepts correctly to your own swing with zero oversight is the same knowledge that would mean all that was unnecessary. Because if any of the folks making those 10 minute videos you watched 100 of you YouTube saw these positions:



If any of them truly knew anything about the golf swing they'd say what iacas and Monte did above. Some version of "please don't listen to my tips about rotation or slicing or whatever, this is all out of bounds and needs addressing on a fundamental level". 

I'm flattered you remember!

I re-read the old thread and your advice before I posted this new one and compared my videos side by side.  Your feedback there is what has helped me get "on" plane in the first 90% of the back swing, because originally I was getting the club way behind/around me instantly; it's why I make such an emphasis on my hand position at p1, and club head path from DTL.  Apparently I've been focused too much on the drawn plane and getting the club on it, without any regard for how/why I was getting there.

Previously I was going way too inside on takeaway and then way over the top on the way down, slice city.  Now I'm too inside on the downswing, but with an open face, so I just push shots right, but that's been an easy and manageable miss on the course, albeit with very inefficient distances, but consistent enough to play.

 

Other than lessons (obviously) I'm unsure of what to do.  The drill(s) being recommended are a drill I already do every single day, so it's clearly not having the intended impact.  Tonight I'll record myself doing the drill and watch it back.  Perhaps that will help me identify if what I what I think I'm doing, is significantly off base from the video example of the drill.  See if I can find some discrepancies.  I'll try some different "feelings" and then compare them side by side.

 

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

...You have several very extreme and out of bounds movements immediately in the backswing...

Would you be so kind as to list them?  You don't need to spend any time with pictures or explanations or solutions, but if you could just call them out so I know what I should be looking for, I would be very thankful.

[Valtiel]

16 minutes ago, KGrinols said:

I'm flattered you remember!

I re-read the old thread and your advice before I posted this new one and compared my videos side by side.  Your feedback there is what has helped me get "on" plane in the first 90% of the back swing, because originally I was getting the club way behind/around me instantly; it's why I make such an emphasis on my hand position at p1, and club head path from DTL.  Apparently I've been focused too much on the drawn plane and getting the club on it, without any regard for how/why I was getting there.

Previously I was going way too inside on takeaway and then way over the top on the way down, slice city.  Now I'm too inside on the downswing, but with an open face, so I just push shots right, but that's been an easy and manageable miss on the course, albeit with very inefficient distances, but consistent enough to play.

I think most of that is accurate, however the "on plane for the first 90% of the backswing" isn't quite. It's certainly miles better than your last thread, but you still work quite a bit inside with the club getting behind your hands. It's not really the end of the world, but directly related to....
 

Quote

Would you be so kind as to list them?  You don't need to spend any time with pictures or explanations or solutions, but if you could just call them out so I know what I should be looking for, I would be very thankful.

...the severity in how you're moving your legs. By P2 you've borderline hyperextended your right leg and overall "turned" your lower about twice as much in less than half the time as the average pro. The knock-on effect of this is that "stand up" move in transition and a complete loss of hip depth and spine angle. To move your legs/pelvis the way you are suggests you're unaware of it's function and what it's meant to do, so you're instead just flailing it open as quick as possible and in doing so you're blowing past tons of rules/guidelines for what you're supposed to be doing there. 

[KGrinols]

13 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I think most of that is accurate, however the "on plane for the first 90% of the backswing" isn't quite. It's certainly miles better than your last thread, but you still work quite a bit inside with the club getting behind your hands. It's not really the end of the world, but directly related to....
 

...the severity in how you're moving your legs. By P2 you've borderline hyperextended your right leg and overall "turned" your lower about twice as much in less than half the time as the average pro. The knock-on effect of this is that "stand up" move in transition and a complete loss of hip depth and spine angle. To move your legs/pelvis the way you are suggests you're unaware of it's function and what it's meant to do, so you're instead just flailing it open as quick as possible and in doing so you're blowing past tons of rules/guidelines for what you're supposed to be doing there. 

I'll get to work!  See you in 2 years. 😉

[Valtiel]

3 minutes ago, KGrinols said:

I'll get to work!  See you in 2 years. 😉

[KGrinols]

On 6/12/2025 at 3:16 PM, Valtiel said:

I'm only a few hours in, but was hoping you can just let me know if I'm on the right path or not.  I still lose my angles at the top, I'll have to diagnose that later, for now I'm just working on the take away with extreme focus on my right hip going "up" rather than "around", keeping my left knee in rather than out, and getting the hands/club in the right spot, without the hip manipulation.

 

 

[PedronNiall]

38 minutes ago, KGrinols said:

I'm only a few hours in, but was hoping you can just let me know if I'm on the right path or not.  I still lose my angles at the top, I'll have to diagnose that later, for now I'm just working on the take away with extreme focus on my right hip going "up" rather than "around", keeping my left knee in rather than out, and getting the hands/club in the right spot, without the hip manipulation.

 

 

 

Valtiel can give you a full breakdown, but a fundamental issue is that you start by picking up the club in all your practice motions and you are very disconnected in any attempt to have your body and arms work together to create a swing once you go to the full thing. 

 

Not going to send you down the YouTube rabbit hole of swing techniques, but I'm going to recommend you learn how the body should move to accomplish tasks so you have a better platform to work from. The below touches in more detail on the same principles the AMG drill above does, but from the looks of things you're about at zero when it comes to creating balanced motion and need a more in-depth primer. No insult, I'm guessing you haven't spent a lot of time on similar activities and your body literally doesn't know what to do. 

 

 

 

 

 

[KGrinols]

19 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

Valtiel can give you a full breakdown, but a fundamental issue is that you start by picking up the club in all your practice motions 

 

I absolutely do it on purpose, as that's how I interpreted keeping the club on plane, because if I don't do that, I'm immediately under plane.

 

I could easily get rid of that, I just thought you had to do it to avoid getting way under plane which was a major flaw I had years ago when I first posted a video, so I, perhaps incorrectly, associated them with eachother.

 

After F1 I'll check out that video.  Thanks.

[KGrinols]

On 6/15/2025 at 11:16 AM, PedronNiall said:

a fundamental issue is that you start by picking up the club in all your practice motions

 

Okay, so ditched the loft/early hinge.

Extreme focus on keeping the hips from opening too far, stretching my left arm 'out' as much as possible, rather than 'back' across my chest, and trying to keep my left arm from getting over my right shoulder at the top, or standing up/losing angles at the top.  I know in motion the latter 2 probably get thrown out the window, but baby steps I guess.

 

I've been using some weighted stuff to try and train the muscles.  A small dumbbell in the house at night, the push broom works well outside. (My 30lb sledge Hammer was a bit too heavy 😂) Doing 100-150 of these a day.

 

Going to the range tonight to see how/if it translates to a club, see what pattern develops, or what faults I run into, and then reassess, before my round Sunday evening.

 

 

 

 

[Nickc]

On 6/15/2025 at 7:16 PM, PedronNiall said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent suggestion.

 

 

Kgrinols Have you tried to follow the Dr Kwon series of drills in the video PedronNiall has suggested? I think they may help a lot.

It will take time!

Edited June 19 by Nickc

[RickM71]

You should consider a mat and net for home. If you have to worry about missing the net or noise, you can use foam balls that are in some ways better than practicing with real balls. 

 

There are some online lesson options that are very reasonable priced. 

 

Also, don't take the feedback too hard. Most of us are closer to your swing than we are to Rory's. 

[KGrinols]

21 minutes ago, Nickc said:

Excellent suggestion.

 

 

Kgrinols Have you tried to follow the Dr Kwon series of drills in the video PedronNiall has suggested? I think they may help a lot.

It will take time!

I think the "stepping" drill is from him.

Taking a small step forward with each practice swing, and then without stopping the flow, hit a ball on the 4th or 5th swing, once it's in club reach.

I do that fairly often.

 

The common trend seems to be the sequence in which the body moves 'while' doing the drill.  So I can step > turn, back and forth all I want, but if I'm turning with the wrong part(s) of my body, in the wrong order, or with the wrong emphasize in the wrong place, then it's just reinforcing the habits that the thread unanimously agrees are wrong.

 

I think that's the obstacle I'm currently struggling to overcome at the moment.  I see the drills, I think I'm doing them, but I'm using the incorrect sequence to complete these drills, and incapable of discerning the difference.

 

So I do the drill, the flow feels normal to me, I can easily repeat it endlessly, I can consistently hit the ball this way, but when I put it on camera, it's the opposite of what the drill is aiming to achieve.

Which for people trying to help has to be annoying, because I completely understand your perspective of "just do the drill right" people told you to, but you have to understand my frustration, because I'm thinking... I've been doing these drills off and on for years.

 

It's okay.  I appreciate everyone's help.  This is obviously an issue with myself, and as others have pointed out, I appear to have a complete misunderstanding of the golf swing, and I'll keep digging to find a solution that clicks for me until I figure it out.

 

Thank you for your time and input.  Genuinely.

[Nickc]

53 minutes ago, KGrinols said:

think the "stepping" drill is from him.

 

Yes that is one of his drills.

But have you watched the whole 'shun' video suggested above. Has a series of progressive drills to do in a gradual sequence  sequence.

Wonder if you are currently too preoccupied with your arms. The Michael Mcteigue book and videos with his lighthouse drill may also help and reasonably simple to work out how to do correctly.

Or maybe you ought to get on line lessons if no instructors where you are as has been suggested.