Grip strength and distance.

[KD1]

29 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

the below video would strongly suggest that it's a governor, not a causal relationship.

 

 

My question would be what were his player's intent? Sure, the strength is there but does one know how to leverage it?

 

@MonteScheinblum my train of thought is were beyond talking about the ability to merely hold on to the club but having the ability to Cast B the crap out of it?

[TheDeanAbides]

I guess this is why, despite having a pretty decent swing, I can't hit the damn thing out of my shadow. 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, sundaypins said:

Grip strength is a big factor for beginners but not for established, good sequenced, players with years in a game wielding a dynamic weight.   What's next, strength training for our feet.  

Maybe?

 

are your feet weak?

 

also what’s a dynamic weight?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Question--how much grip strength do you "need" for various distances, and how would a layman without a grip strength gauge measure it? 

 

For example, last summer I bought these grip strength trainers off Amazon. I can close the 150# trainer comfortably with either hand. I can compress a fair amount, but not fully close, the 200# trainer. I'd say my grip strength is probably above average, but I'm sure I'm not some massive outlier like Monte. 

 

What does this level--or other levels--of grip strength translate to in relation to swing speed potential? 

 

[PedronNiall]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Question--how much grip strength do you "need" for various distances, and how would a layman without a grip strength gauge measure it? 

 

For example, last summer I bought these grip strength trainers off Amazon. I can close the 150# trainer comfortably with either hand. I can compress a fair amount, but not fully close, the 200# trainer. I'd say my grip strength is probably above average, but I'm sure I'm not some massive outlier like Monte. 

 

What does this level--or other levels--of grip strength translate to in relation to swing speed potential? 

 

 

There aren't really any tools that can give a perfect measure to see if X force on the device will be sufficient for Y swing speed at the ball, but to be exact, enough to offset the torque and pulling/centripetal force as the club changes direction and speed is what's needed. 

 

Here's the graph from Tutelman:

 

 

Using a force scale with a golf grip attachment and seeing how much you can pull with would give an approximation. Not perfect, but some members have done similar things holding a portable scale with weight attached to get some idea of what their holding capability is with their lead or both hands combined. Probably could do the same with a cable machine as some do have golf grip attachments, but I'd be careful trying to pull too much on one of those for a prolonged time or trying to do the pull too quickly. Just work up as you would on any exercise you're not sure how your body will respond to. 

 

Keep in mind that total force will act on the entire area of the hands, so as Tutelman points out, it's the pressure, or force/area, coming into play, and the force the hand exerts is affected by the coefficient of friction of the bare hands or the glove. 

 

AFAIK even with the sensored glove no ones made a precise model of how all the grip pressure is distributed, but what has been measured gets us close. The whole Tutelman piece is a good read. 

Edited June 12 by PedronNiall

[RayPlan]

2 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Maybe?

 

are your feet weak?

 

also what’s a dynamic weight?

No joke, the muscles in my feet are currently sore from practicing a lot of full swings, coming off a few weeks taking few, if any swings.

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

This is going to be more and more discussed as the years pass.  Experts from the university of Denver surmised my ability to hit it far when I was only 6-2 and 180 pounds without much gym strength, was my 100th percentile hand/grip strength.  Just having a good swing wasn’t going to cut it.  There had to be a physical reason I could swing 150 mph while looking like it was 115.  It’s so abstract  I’d put up videos on Instagram swinging 130 with 190+ balls speed at age 50 and people would call BS even though I put the camera on the flight scope as the animation and numbers came up after videoing the swing.  I’d get accused of being a lair and juicing the numbers somehow.

 

Here are the 49ers doing a test and you can see it’s a wide variation.  
 

I hear this seemingly every day……”I’m more fit, more flexible, stronger and have a better swing than my friend Eugene, but he out drives me by 20 yards.”

 

Maybe this is part…..or all of it.

 

When you see I did over 200 when I was 28 years old and I can still do 150/160 when my hands and wrists aren’t sore from being an old man, there might be merit to strengthening your hands might having more affect on club head speed than standard weight training.

 

I’d like to see more than just my small sample size of me versus the universe.  I’d bet Bosa smashes it even if his swing stinks.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKxz0sryNqY/?igsh=MW1sZWVpNG84cWZ4ZA==

Interesting topic.  I don't think height/weight is as important as a person's hands & forearms.  I am 5'10, 216lbs and 74, and XX large hands, and been regularly (years) using a Hand Grip Strengthener with 22lb - 88lb resistance. 

 

It's for martial arts, and kept next to my lounge chair.  Never thought of it for golf.  

[Pepperturbo]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Question--how much grip strength do you "need" for various distances, and how would a layman without a grip strength gauge measure it? 

 

For example, last summer I bought these grip strength trainers off Amazon. I can close the 150# trainer comfortably with either hand. I can compress a fair amount, but not fully close, the 200# trainer. I'd say my grip strength is probably above average, but I'm sure I'm not some massive outlier like Monte. 

 

What does this level--or other levels--of grip strength translate to in relation to swing speed potential? 

 

Many years ago, I used those grip exercisers.  After a while, they lose their strength.  The newer ones that are adjustable with a range of pounds, make a difference.  Mine is for martial arts, and goes to 88lbs.  Others go to 200lbs.

[ferrispgm]

I've said it a few times on here but I'm not a short hitter and I'm also not crazy long like some guys (my driver typically ranges from 300-325 on avg depending on the day).  But almost without exception, whenever I play with a guy who is a carpenter or works in construction, they will be past me 75% of the day.  

[mizunotpz]

Great post! I used to hit the ball along way between like 15-25, and at the time I also played elite level handball here in Scandinavia. And all we did in training was using those explosive muscles and I could throw that ball harder than most of the others, my speciality was a fast shot I could disguise for the keeper by just using my under arm and hand. Maybe Im not adding much to this discussion just think youre on to something. I also had a super fast backswing which several coaches tried to change. Now I know that also is a power source, or can be if you dont mess up the turn and the transition.

[MikeW2]

9 hours ago, sundaypins said:

Grip strength is a big factor for beginners but not for established, good sequenced, players with years in a game wielding a dynamic weight.   What's next, strength training for our feet.  

I’ve played for a long time. Last fall I had a car door accidentally closed onto my hand. Initial X-ray showed two broken bones then the cut became infected then further examination (because I continued to experience pain) showed I had actually broken 9 bones in total. I’m healthy now but my grip strength is a fraction of what it was prior to the injury. So far this season I have been about 30 yards shorter with driver and a full club less with my irons. Couldn’t figure out why but reading this thread makes it make sense for me and I will probably up the exercises ortho has me doing because it seems that grip strength does matter.

[Ri_Redneck]

Been playing for close to 50 yrs. I learned early on that hand strength played a big roll in controlling the clubhead on non-full speed shots, especially out of heavy rough. I have used various hand strengthening devices over the years and find the simplest and best to be just ball that you can completely compress. I feel that full range motion is necessary since the golf grip is much smaller than most devices and limiting range of motion during exercise limits where (in that range) you develop the strength. Since everyone is starting at a different point, the best solution, IMHO, is a set of balls of progressive resistances. This is what I have used for the last 20-30 yrs and they work very well. I carry them with me all the time, keep one in each car so I can exercise while on long drives, etc. I am 62, work in sales and my typical driver cruising CHS hovers around 108. My hand strength numbers are below.Don't know if they have much to do with driver CHS, but I can't see that it hurts.

 

BT

 

Right

 

Left

[Pnwpingi210]

23 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Question--how much grip strength do you "need" for various distances, and how would a layman without a grip strength gauge measure it? 

 

For example, last summer I bought these grip strength trainers off Amazon. I can close the 150# trainer comfortably with either hand. I can compress a fair amount, but not fully close, the 200# trainer. I'd say my grip strength is probably above average, but I'm sure I'm not some massive outlier like Monte. 

 

What does this level--or other levels--of grip strength translate to in relation to swing speed potential? 

 

It’s a good question.

 

Grippers are a strange thing in that you can get a lot stronger at closing a gripper but it doesn’t always translate to other grips things.

 

anecdote time

 

a guy at the gym I go to does isolation things, grippers included, I think he can close the coc #2.  I can barely move it.  
 

I can do a deadhang from a pull up bar for 2 mins or deadlift 450 with a double overhand grip, he uses straps from anything above 225 and struggles with anything over 300 pounds with no straps.

[Valtiel]

19 hours ago, ferrispgm said:

I've said it a few times on here but I'm not a short hitter and I'm also not crazy long like some guys (my driver typically ranges from 300-325 on avg depending on the day).  But almost without exception, whenever I play with a guy who is a carpenter or works in construction, they will be past me 75% of the day.  

[LongNwrong27]

8 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

It’s a good question.

 

Grippers are a strange thing in that you can get a lot stronger at closing a gripper but it doesn’t always translate to other grips things.

 

anecdote time

 

a guy at the gym I go to does isolation things, grippers included, I think he can close the coc #2.  I can barely move it.  
 

I can do a deadhang from a pull up bar for 2 mins or deadlift 450 with a double overhand grip, he uses straps from anything above 225 and struggles with anything over 300 pounds with no straps.

450 DOH is insane, what is your max with hook or mixed? When I was pulling around 500 even 365 DOH was difficult and I would not say my grip was weak by any stretch of the imagination. Never needed straps or had grip be the limiting factor when pulling. 

[TheDeanAbides]

8 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I mean, the grip on one of my hands is really strong...

[Pnwpingi210]

8 minutes ago, LongNwrong27 said:

450 DOH is insane, what is your max with hook or mixed? When I was pulling around 500 even 365 DOH was difficult and I would not say my grip was weak by any stretch of the imagination. Never needed straps or had grip be the limiting factor when pulling. 

Haven’t tried to max in 10 years and only recently started training it for strength again.

 

I’ve never hooked (I’m not that tough) or mixed grip (irrational fear of torn bicep).  Just double overhand till I can’t, and then straps since I don’t compete.

 

a good bar and chalk is key.  I struggle to get more than 6 or so reps at 315 double overhand with some of the bars and no chalk at a place like 24 hr fitness

[TheDeanAbides]

3 minutes ago, SlyFrog said:

 

Your average exceeds tour pro level, but you're not crazy long like some guys. 

 

Meanwhile, 75% of amateur players who work in construction are longer than you.

 

Okay.

@ferrispgm is one of the most respected and non-hyperbolic members of this forum, so for you to come here and be so dismissive is a great start to your forum use. 

[sundaypins]

On 6/12/2025 at 12:10 PM, betarhoalphadelta said:

I can't vouch for the content, but the below video would strongly suggest that it's a governor, not a causal relationship. I.e. having stronger grip pressure doesn't MAKE you swing faster--but having a grip strength that's too weak for your speed potential limits you. 

 

On 6/12/2025 at 12:10 PM, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

 

Knowing what I know makes this video an easy one to like.  

[GwrxMod]

 

That is all. 

[Nels55]

On 6/12/2025 at 9:10 AM, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I can't vouch for the content, but the below video would strongly suggest that it's a governor, not a causal relationship. I.e. having stronger grip pressure doesn't MAKE you swing faster--but having a grip strength that's too weak for your speed potential limits you. 

 

Of specific note is that they talked about the players they trained and did an experiment. One group added grip strength training to what they were already doing, and a control group did not. There was no difference in their performance; i.e. the ones who added grip strength training did not gain distance relative to those who didn't.

 

HOWEVER, there's a giant enormous gargantual colossal caveat here...

 

The players in question were ALREADY doing physical/strength training. Training with heavy dumbbells/barbells will naturally strengthen your grip. So the players in question probably ALREADY had strong grips relative to the average middle-aged sedentary American golfer. Meaning their grip strength wasn't a limiter at the start of the experiment, so focused work on increasing their grip strength made no difference. 

 

So despite the fact that the experiment didn't show any difference, my guess is that for an average middle-aged sedentary American golfer, they might see an improvement b/c their grip strength is currently a limiter for THEM.

 

 

Interesting video.  If the data is correct then the fact that someone with low grip strength can have very high clubhead speed indicates that grip strength is not a requirement for being a long hitter.

[RayPlan]

I watched the video and I didn't catch if he described his grip strength measurement methodology. But if he used the commonly used grip strength testers that test the same crusher grip as those grip strength trainers, then it may just be that that specific grip strength isn't very important to swing speed. As others have mentioned above, that's not actually how your grip a golf club, so it wouldn't be surprising if that measurement was less relevant. 

[PedronNiall]

11 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Interesting video.  If the data is correct then the fact that someone with low grip strength can have very high clubhead speed indicates that grip strength is not a requirement for being a long hitter.

 

They state some people who swing over 130 have less grip strength than those who swing 120. How does that in any way say anyone involved in their "study" has low grip strength? Is there anywhere that what you want to call low grip strength is defined? No, so you literally have no floor being given as to what low means, only your making it up. That's ignoring the "study" not having a proper comparisons or controls. You can't compare people doing strength training to those doing strength training and a grip strength regimen and then accurately say grip strength training is useless for gaining CHS in all cases. 

 

He also talks about claims not being made here. While some may try to say that increasing grip strength is always a path to more CHS, the only claim being put forth by Monte and everyone else in in the numerous threads where this comes up is that grip strength is a limiting factor for CHS, i.e., one cannot exceed CHS numbers at which their grip strength isn't sufficient to hold onto the club. If someone doesn't have the necessary grip strength then they should engage in grip strength or overall strength training exercises to get them there. 

 

We have the known force the club pulls with. You must generate at least that much opposing force for the club not to fly free and enough to keep the club from twisting. You can create that force over the entirety of the gripping area, and having a high friction glove and grip surface help to lessen the closing force the hand and fingers have to directly apply, but you must create enough force to keep the club from going sailing, period. 

 

You would serve yourself a lot better by critically evaluating what you watch and read rather than jumping to conclusions and going all in on something that is either flat out wrong or that you have misunderstood. 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

They state some people who swing over 130 have less grip strength than those who swing 120. How does that in any way say anyone involved in their "study" has low grip strength? Is there anywhere that what you want to call low grip strength is defined? No, so you literally have no floor being given as to what low means, only your making it up. That's ignoring the "study" not having a proper comparisons or controls. You can't compare people doing strength training to those doing strength training and a grip strength regimen and then accurately say grip strength training is useless for gaining CHS in all cases. 

 

He also talks about claims not being made here. While some may try to say that increasing grip strength is always a path to more CHS, the only claim being put forth by Monte and everyone else in in the numerous threads where this comes up is that grip strength is a limiting factor for CHS, i.e., one cannot exceed CHS numbers at which their grip strength isn't sufficient to hold onto the club. If someone doesn't have the necessary grip strength then they should engage in grip strength or overall strength training exercises to get them there. 

 

We have the known force the club pulls with. You must generate at least that much opposing force for the club not to fly free and enough to keep the club from twisting. You can create that force over the entirety of the gripping area, and having a high friction glove and grip surface help to lessen the closing force the hand and fingers have to directly apply, but you must create enough force to keep the club from going sailing, period. 

 

You would serve yourself a lot better by critically evaluating what you watch and read rather than jumping to conclusions and going all in on something that is either flat out wrong or that you have misunderstood. 

I mean, that told him!

[BombinJim]

Grip strength is most certainly correlated to swing speed governor. I’ve lifted weights for years and have pretty good swing speed baseline for having the swing mechanics of a gorilla falling out of a tree (working on it). I’ve gotten up to 137 mph with driver after a few months of speed training and I’ve had the grip strength to deadlift 520lbs and close a captains of crush gripper 2.

[Pnwpingi210]

45 minutes ago, BombinJim said:

Grip strength is most certainly correlated to swing speed governor. I’ve lifted weights for years and have pretty good swing speed baseline for having the swing mechanics of a gorilla falling out of a tree (working on it). I’ve gotten up to 137 mph with driver after a few months of speed training and I’ve had the grip strength to deadlift 520lbs and close a captains of crush gripper 2.

Username checks out

[vegasandre]

Interesting stuff Monte. 
I wonder the relationship  of being very dominant left-handed while playing golf right-handed in terms of grip strength ?
 

[Nels55]

On 6/13/2025 at 9:00 AM, Ri_Redneck said:

Been playing for close to 50 yrs. I learned early on that hand strength played a big roll in controlling the clubhead on non-full speed shots, especially out of heavy rough. I have used various hand strengthening devices over the years and find the simplest and best to be just ball that you can completely compress. I feel that full range motion is necessary since the golf grip is much smaller than most devices and limiting range of motion during exercise limits where (in that range) you develop the strength. Since everyone is starting at a different point, the best solution, IMHO, is a set of balls of progressive resistances. This is what I have used for the last 20-30 yrs and they work very well. I carry them with me all the time, keep one in each car so I can exercise while on long drives, etc. I am 62, work in sales and my typical driver cruising CHS hovers around 108. My hand strength numbers are below.Don't know if they have much to do with driver CHS, but I can't see that it hurts.

 

BT

 

Right

 

Left

Here is my right hand:

 

Strong for a 70 year old male according to the device.  My driver clubhead speed is around 97 mph per mevo+ though I suspect I am a bit faster on the course.  I will add some grip strength training to see if I can get over 100 lbs.

[J.Bex]

On 6/12/2025 at 4:44 PM, PedronNiall said:

 

There aren't really any tools that can give a perfect measure to see if X force on the device will be sufficient for Y swing speed at the ball, but to be exact, enough to offset the torque and pulling/centripetal force as the club changes direction and speed is what's needed. 

 

Here's the graph from Tutelman:

 

 

Using a force scale with a golf grip attachment and seeing how much you can pull with would give an approximation. Not perfect, but some members have done similar things holding a portable scale with weight attached to get some idea of what their holding capability is with their lead or both hands combined. Probably could do the same with a cable machine as some do have golf grip attachments, but I'd be careful trying to pull too much on one of those for a prolonged time or trying to do the pull too quickly. Just work up as you would on any exercise you're not sure how your body will respond to. 

 

Keep in mind that total force will act on the entire area of the hands, so as Tutelman points out, it's the pressure, or force/area, coming into play, and the force the hand exerts is affected by the coefficient of friction of the bare hands or the glove. 

 

AFAIK even with the sensored glove no ones made a precise model of how all the grip pressure is distributed, but what has been measured gets us close. The whole Tutelman piece is a good read. 

👍

 

Everything we do with the swing - sequencing, GRFs, etc. - manifests with forces applied to the grip.  Vector directions included.

 

Around impact it's mostly a big centripetal force pull.  (Btw Tutelman's deep analysis is awesome as always; my old centripetal thread wasn't worthy.)  The higher the speed, the higher that force.  Since the speed comes from forces that we're creating, we better be able to hold onto the club, or else the body probably won't let us create forces that high.  Better not not be holding a slick grip either...

 

Grip force analysis will probably become more widespread, like what SensorEdge is doing.  Force plates are great, but capturing force data at the place we actually hold the club is another thing.  Then you can correlate grip force patterns with GRF patterns, people's swing sequences, someone's ceiling, etc.

 

"Bird will die after each shot"

 

A few things:

 

- Max grip strength is one thing, but how quick you can get to it is another thing - grip impulse (force x time), fast activation and deactivation of grip force.

 

- Lead hand squeezes significantly more than trail hand.  Probably not a surprise, esp. seeing Couples and Singh letting go with their trail hands.

 

- One of the pro examples had their max dynamic grip force surpassing that of their max static grip.

 

- Max grip force is around P5 of the pro examples.  This is inline with what Tutelman found in the study he analyzed.  It's not max around impact, where the most centripetal force is happening (when the club/person can be pulling over 100 lb hanging onto the grip), like we might've thought.  That seems to indicate it's happening somewhere around wrist angle release, applying torque (force couple) with the hands, maybe around max hand speed and vertical GRF.  You pros can make those data correlations.

 

In a screenshot of a Sasho MacKenzie vid, the most grip squeeze, around P5, would be around here.  See net force purple arrow pointing downward at 171.2 N (37.5 lb).

 

 

The pros would not be squeezing tightest below, despite being at the max net force (mostly centripetal, arrow pointed upwards towards center of rotation) of 466 N (105 lb).

 

 

On 6/13/2025 at 1:31 PM, Pnwpingi210 said:

deadlift 450 with a double overhand grip

 

On 6/13/2025 at 1:41 PM, LongNwrong27 said:

When I was pulling around 500

 

On 6/14/2025 at 12:44 PM, BombinJim said:

I’ve had the grip strength to deadlift 520lbs and close a captains of crush gripper 2

 

You guys are beasts 🦍

Edited June 17 by joostin

[DKgolfAZ]

On 6/11/2025 at 7:13 PM, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

I will merely repeat that my club speed and control skyrocketed once I took up competitive pistol shooting.  (Where you hold 4 or so pounds in your outstretched arm, while squeezing two of your fingers about as hard as possible.  Then gently but consistently moving your index finger as precisely as possible.)

 

I was honestly surprised.  I'm not a small guy, but going from 88-89 7-iron to 96 was really surprising.  And flirting with 130 ball speed despite trying to "*STOP*" at left arm parallel.  

 

Makes me laugh, reading the "Keep your grip pressure light", instruction advice in popular press.

haha I came from USPSA/3G to golf and distance/CHS was one of the last things I needed to work on. Could be on to something here!