Oakmont USGA type layouts are killing golf...

[StoutKing]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

 Did they get rid of the cauliflower  greens ?  🥬 

Honestly I played there over 100 times and the fescue greens were just fine; way better than average greens.  That being said they switched to poa.

[StoutKing]

45 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Luckily we can have both…Players in March and US Open in June.

 

I don't understand how Scotty can't figure out that calculating=strategy

[PedronNiall]

10 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

Honestly I played there over 100 times and the fescue greens were just fine; way better than average greens.  That being said they switched to poa.

 

Wasn't they a blend of both on top of being baked out to no end? They certainly weren't better than average during the Open, whatever they were seeded with at the time. 

[manku]

Are there any members with handicaps over 10 at Oakmont?

 

And if so, why?

 

It looks like a complete slog for your average golfer, even if they were to cut the rough and play from shorter tees.

 

BTW, that's also how I feel about Riviera...which I've played a few times.   With the cool weather and onshore breeze, it's just too difficult for the bogey golfer.   

[StoutKing]

11 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Wasn't they a blend of both on top of being baked out to no end? They certainly weren't better than average during the Open, whatever they were seeded with at the time. 

The USGA didn't help by not watering, that's for sure.

[PedronNiall]

Just now, StoutKing said:

The USGA didn't help by not watering, that's for sure.

 

Yep. Was looking at shots and had forgotten how absolutely baked to death they were even before Thursday that week. 

 

 

By the weekend they were fully done. 

 

 

 

[StoutKing]

Just now, PedronNiall said:

 

Yep. Was looking at shots and had forgotten how absolutely baked to death they were even before Thursday that week. 

 

 

By the weekend they were fully done. 

 

 

 

The top photo was typical for the fescue greens.  They rolled pretty good tbh.  Very similar to the Old Course or Muirfield if you've played those.

[Llortamaisey]

I kinda like watching the superstars go off early on the weekend so I can watch them in the morning and then I can go play in the afternoon. 

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

1 hour ago, manku said:

Are there any members with handicaps over 10 at Oakmont?

 

And if so, why?

 

It looks like a complete slog for your average golfer, even if they were to cut the rough and play from shorter tees.

 

BTW, that's also how I feel about Riviera...which I've played a few times.   With the cool weather and onshore breeze, it's just too difficult for the bogey golfer.   

It’s been alluded to elsewhere, but it certainly doesn’t play this tricked out for members, and local knowledge goes a long way. 
 

What Oakmont showcases is honestly fairly indicative of what golf is like generally in Western PA. Oakmont this week is certainly a most severe example, but there are many great courses around here that feature fescue/penal rough (which often gets baked out and less penal by late July/August), fast and sloped greens, lots of elevation changes and blind shots. Golfers around here are just used to it.

 

I sit here and wonder how there can be golfers in Florida who have bad short games playing on that sinister Bermuda grass. Different strokes for different folks. 

 

 

[Titleist99]

Oakmont GC shows what a little rough, proper bunkering, fast greens with ungulation can do to the longest of hitters of the golf ball.

 

Not a single water hazard, no trees in play, and very few doglegs to cut off distance.

 

Some may call the above, tricking it up, but Oakmont has been doing it this way since 1903-1904 when it played at a 6406 yard par 80. So, the USGA decided to trick up the golf ball. 

 

What's amazing is that the USGA has had 10 National championships here, so they know this but blames the golf ball.

 

Today, we see the hypocrisy. Oakmont should be required studying before another golf course is built.

 

*Satire

~Just some thoughts while finally getting a chance to watch this bully of a golf course.

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, StoutKing said:

Honestly I played there over 100 times and the fescue greens were just fine; way better than average greens.  That being said they switched to poa.

I’m sure. Il just going  on the one time I seen it on TV.  Was crazy bumpy.  

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Oakmont GC shows what a little rough, proper bunkering, fast greens with ungulation can do to the longest of hitters of the golf ball.

 

Not a single water hazard, no trees in play, and very few doglegs to cut off distance.

 

Some may call the above, tricking it up, but Oakmont has been doing it this way since 1903-1904 when it played at a 6406 yard par 80. So, the USGA decided to trick up the golf ball. 

 

What's amazing is that the USGA has had 10 National championships here, so they know this but blames the golf ball.

 

Today, we see the hypocrisy. Oakmont should be required studying before another golf course is built.

 

*Satire

~Just some thoughts while finally getting a chance to watch this bully of a golf course.

It works for the open.  But every week it would lead to the end of the tour.  
 

golf instruction would lean hard to a style similar to Steve stricker Corey pavin.  .  Flighted everything. Down the middle. More roll.  And a negative aoa with driver.  Irons would be tiny.  Folks don’t realize how much easier a tiny blade is to get through this type grass vs what they play now.  
 

so I’m with you. Do it. But they’d all revolt. Would be like making track stars run in combat boots.  Or swimmers swim in winter coats.  Makes way more sense to just pull the ball and driver head  and length back. .  Only reason folks won’t  do that is they don’t want to lose the length themselves. 

Edited June 14 by bladehunter

[Pnwpingi210]

4 hours ago, StoutKing said:

The top photo was typical for the fescue greens.  They rolled pretty good tbh.  Very similar to the Old Course or Muirfield if you've played those.

Agree the green at chambers are much better now.  
 

they roll great, probably the best in the state for a public course with the exception of maybe gamble.  They still look like a marbled green and brown color so they won’t televise well, but they are smooth, pretty quick, and roll true.
 

 They also don’t have anymore of those bare bumpy spots 

[Titleist99]

Just now, bladehunter said:

It works for the open.  But every week it would lead to the end of the tour.  
 

golf instruction would lean hard to a style similar to Steve stricker Corey pavin.  .  Flighted everything. Down the middle. More roll.  And a negative aoa with driver.  Irons would be tiny.  Folks don’t realize how much easier a tiny blade is to get through this type grass vs what they play now.  
 

so I’m with you. Do it. But they’d all revolt. Would be like making track stars run in combat boots.  Or swimmers swim in winter coats.  Makes way more sense to just pull the ball and driver head  and length back. .  Only reason folks front do that is they don’t want to lose the length themselves. 

 

 

Actually, I agree with you. I never advocated for USO conditions weekly; just take a look at the course setup first.

 

* Just to be clear, I'm not a fan of watching touring Pros hack it around like my Saturday morning foursome. Carnage makes me cringe at any level. 🤣

 

** Good thing about Pro golf is that it's on all year and there's something for everyone. 

 

IMo

[Titleist99]

Oakmont....

 

not overly long, nor do it care how far you drive it. Just ask Rory and Dechambeau. 😄

[Fairways_and_Greens]

They're obsessed with score. If there where a bunch of scores under par, it would be a par 69 next time.

[SnowbirdTom]

I may be warped, but I think i’d like to try this place from the appropriate tee boxes. Somewhere between 6200-6500.

[Valtiel]

I ain't reading all 5 pages....but this inevitable complaining is funny when there is so much complaining about scores being too low and how the winning score should be around even par to low single digits in majors/big events. Then when a course is setup to make exactly that happen....whining. It's like no one is happy until a course produces no worse than +5 and no better than -5. Anything else is "killing the game". 😅

Edited June 14 by Valtiel

[bladehunter]

Would love to see Adam Scott win 

[StoutKing]

Haven't watched him much before but Spaun's action is so good.

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

On 6/14/2025 at 7:16 AM, NosajNeelik said:

This might be the worst take on Golfwrx 

Obviously you don’t understand what I’m trying to say.

[NosajNeelik]

9 minutes ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

Obviously you don’t understand what I’m trying to say.

Obviously I do and disagree 100%. Have you ever played in a golf tournament?

[PuffyC]

Oakmont isn’t killing golf but IMO it’s not a true test of overall skill either. Oakmont produces higher scores for 4 main reasons:

 

1. They took a 7400 yard course and made it a par 70. Would the local muni be a hard course if we said it was a par 60? No, that’s just the scorecard version of loft jacking.

2. Oakmont greens force 45% more 3 putts than other difficult courses like Quail Hollow and you could see it. Fair enough but that over emphasizes putting rather than overall shot making. Seeing Scotty miss multiple 2 footers isn’t fun nor it is a true test of his skill.

3. What are basically pot bunkers. I’d like to see more of this on non-links courses actually. Make bunkers truly penal and maybe the USGA wouldn’t have to roll the ball back.

4. The rough. Too often hitting in the rough was the same as a penalty stroke. Missing the fairway by a few feet should be penal, not a stroke, and too often favors the lucky. If that’s what you want just mark non-fairways OB and bam - you got a hard course. No one wants that though, and for good reason.

[ProStryker]

I personally have loved the US Open at Oakmont this year, and the setup.

[Forged4ever]

On 6/13/2025 at 12:34 PM, farmer said:

According to Richard (Forged for Ever), who has played Oakmont many times, what you see is pretty much standard.  The rough may not be as severe, but the greens are what the members see every day.  Not a course to go have a relaxing round while playing casually.  I would rather have a root canal than have Oakmont as my home course, but they have carefully avoided inviting me to join.

Hey Bro, how goes it👊

 

Though I plan on replying to the OP, I just wanted to clear up something that is probably my fault and that is that "the greens are what the members see every day." If you referring to the greens runnin at 14-15+, this is totally false and I do not recall ever posting this, though if I did, apologies, as it is not accurate!!

 

The greens normally run 12-13+ for member play. Please remember that 98%+ of the membership play either the white(Par 71, 6215yds, 73.2/138) or brown tees(Par 71, 5705yds, 70.7/134). The President Cup, Oakmont's Club Championship, along with our Inter Club matches, which ceased in 2014, Play the Blacks(Par 71, 7395-7427yds, 78.4/150).

 

Other "scratch" matches are Played from the greens, the yardage range from "Johnny's Open(1973)," whith a Par 71, 7050-7130yds, 77.1/147. Twice a year, again, this was an Inter Club format that is no longer held, however we Played what were referred to as the "BoBs(Back of Box)," which were 7495yds and to a par of 71, not 70.

 

During the season, the greens run at 11-13, usually 12+. I'm not sayin that they do not get to 13-14, depending on outside factors, though they do not normally run at that speed as even though Oakmont has a course maintenance crew & program second to none, literally, let's not forget that the faster greens require more frequent, intensive and demanding maintenance practice, including though not limited to lower mowing heights, more frequent top dressing & verticutting, not to mentioned the increased hand watering.

 

Yes, Oakmont has the staff, money and where with all to do this on a regular basis, though do they????

 

NO!!

 

The other factor that you have not heard that much about this week though I would rank second only behind the rough whenever I've been asked the three toughest features that makes Oakmont absolutely brutal when all three are brought to bare is the pin placements. 

 

With the size and undulations of many of the greens,  pin placement can be absolutely brutal, much more problematic than green speed and second only to the rough.

 

Regarding rough, this will be the first year in over three plus decades that Oakmont has moved away from the graduated tiered rough to a single cut, 3-5" for members/daily play, and 5-6" for the Open.

 

My club normally runs the greens at 11-12+, with 13-14+ for our Championships, USGA and Affiliated Tourneys. We co-hosted the 2003 US Am with Oakmont however declined the opportunity to co-host both the 2023 US Am along with being one of this year's Open's Final Q sites. We still have graduated rough, running 2-4" for "regular" play and 4-6" for our Championship along with USGA//

Affiliated Tourneys. 

 

That said, the pin placements that the members play on a regular basis are much much more lenient than what you are seeing this week. 

 

If ya look at the par, yardage, rating and slope of the track at the white & brown tees(above), while it is a challenging test of golf for the average mid/high cap, it is far from unplayable or anything remotely resembling what the Tour Boys experienced this week. It's on par, no pun intended, with all of your top-tier clubs around the country.

 

Again, apologies if I gave off the impression that the 98%+ of the members played the course in anything remotely resembling this week's set-up, on the regular at 14-15

 

Have a Great week Brotha👊

RP

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17 by Forged4ever

[Forged4ever]

19 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Would love to see Adam Scott win 

He's my long shot Bro💪🏻!!

 

Enjoy the Afternoon👊

RP

[Forged4ever]

On 6/13/2025 at 10:43 AM, tatertot said:

You're using a 10-year-old article to prove certain courses are "killing golf" ... and ten years later, golf has never been more popular.

 

Do you see the problem here>

Spot on Brotha 💯🤙‼️

 

This is typical and is similar to when selective sound bytes or edited vids are chosen to support one's position.

 

Having Played at +2.8 to +3.6 for the last 27+ of my 57+ years in the game, while Playing all over the world, including Oakmont 8-10 times/year from the Greens & Blacks, cept for the Stags & Invitationals, when we Played the whites, along with Playin out of a Club that last co-hosted the US AM with Oakmont in 2003, while declining the opportunity to co-host the 2023 US Am with them along with being one of this year's Open finals spots, and there is a reason that decade in and decade out, from one generation to the next, Oakmont has always been one of the top half dozen tracks on earth🌎!!!

 

The Greatness of Oakmont was already permanently stamped into the very fabric of this game lonnnnnng before any of us on this board hit this earth, and so it shall remain in that position lonnnnnng after all of us exit it stage right!!!

 

I hope that you have a Great Season👊

RP

 

 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Forged4ever said:

He's my long shot Bro💪🏻!!

 

Enjoy the Afternoon👊

RP

I loved that first tee ball. He looks like he’s up for it.  Here’s to hoping he pulls it off !  

[avrag]

The graphic from half an hour ago tells us that the USGA is breaking the record for longest par 3 the same way Bubka used to break his own pole vaulting record. 

Edited June 15 by avrag

[beluga99]

13 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

Hey Bro, how goes it👊

 

Though I plan on replying to the OP, I just wanted to clear up something that is probably my fault and that is that "the greens are what the members see every day." If you referring to the greens runnin at 14-15+, this is totally false and I do not recall ever posting this, though if I did, apologies, as it is not accurate!!

 

The greens normally run 12-13+ for member play. Please remember that 98%+ of the membership play either the white(Par 71, 6215yds, 73.2/138) or brown tees(Par 71, 5705yds, 70.7/134). The President Cup, Oakmont's Club Championship, along with our Inter Club matches, which ceased in 2014, Play the Blacks(Par 71, 7395-7427yds, 78.4/150).

 

Other "scratch" matches are Played from the greens, the yardage range from "Johnny's Open(1973)," whith a Par 71, 7050-7130yds, 77.1/147. Twice a year, again, this was an Inter Club format that is no longer held, however we Played what were referred to as the "BoBs(Back of Box)," which were 7495yds and to a par of 71, not 70.

 

During the season, the greens run at 11-13, usually 12+. I'm not sayin that they do not get to 13-14, depending on outside factors, though they do not normally run at that speed as even though Oakmont has a course maintenance crew & program second to none, literally, let's not forget that the faster greens require more frequent, intensive and demanding maintenance practice, including though not limited to lower mowing heights, more frequent top dressing & verticutting, not to mentioned the increased hand watering.

 

Yes, Oakmont has the staff, money and where with all to do this on a regular basis, though do they????

 

NO!!

 

The other factor that you have not heard that much about this week though I would rank second only behind the rough whenever I've been asked the three toughest features that makes Oakmont absolutely brutal when all three are brought to bare is the pin placements. 

 

With the size and undulations of many of the greens,  pin placement can be absolutely brutal, much more problematic than green speed and second only to the rough.

 

Regarding rough, this will be the first year in over three plus decades that Oakmont has moved away from the graduated tiered rough to a single cut, 3-5" for members/daily play, and 5-6" for the Open.

 

My club normally runs the greens at 11-12+, with 13-14+ for our Championships, USGA and Affiliated Tourneys. We co-hosted the 2003 US Am with Oakmont however declined the opportunity to co-host both the 2023 US Am along with being one of this year's Open's Final Q sites. We still have graduated rough, running 2-4" for "regular" play and 3-6" for our Championship along with USGA//

Affiliated Tourneys. 

 

That said, the pin placements that the members play on a regular basis are much much more lenient than what you are seeing this week. 

 

If ya look at the par, yardage, rating and slope of the track at the white & brown tees(above), while it is a challenging test of golf for the average mid/high cap, it is far from unplayable or anything remotely resembling what the Tour Boys experienced this week. It's on par, no pun intended, with all of your top-tier clubs around the country.

 

Again, apologies if I gave off the impression that the 98%+ of the members played the course in anything remotely resembling this week's set-up, on the regular at 14-15

 

Have a Great week Brotha👊

RP

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great post Richard.  Thank you!