Question For All The Other Single Digit Handicappers on Here

[DShepley]

Let's settle a debate.

 

If you are a single digit handicap, anywhere from low single to nine, did it require intensive lessons with a pro or did you largely get there on your own through a lot of play and digging it out yourself in practice?

 

I'll start....I started at 19 years old after playing multiple competitive sports, (baseball, track, volleyball), and was a 5 handicap in my third season after a lot of 'self discovery' on the driving range and a couple hundred rounds of golf.  I also surrounded myself in the game by reading and watching everything I could get my hands on.  I didn't take any formal lessons, (I've had three), until I was a single digit handicap.

 

These days after 29 years in the game and two kids, I still play between a scratch and four depending how often I have a club in my hands.  Currently I am a 2.4 index and a member at a course without a range and maintain my index by playing 2-3 times per week.  

 

Interested to hear how others got there.  (This is not a thread about getting to the tour or into plus indexes)

[getitdaily]

Under a 3 cap without lessons. Lessons were critical to getting to + tho.

[DShepley]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Under a 3 cap without lessons. Lessons were critical to getting to + tho.

I got to + for a time prior to kids and two of my three lessons were when I was a scratch.  I became friends with the pro and we played a lot of 9 hole rounds in the evenings after his lessons were concluded. (I learned a lot in the nine hole rounds, much more than the lessons but most nights he took me for $5)

[GoGoErky]

Lessons over the course of 5 years to get from 25 to 5.

[goaliedad30]

I started at age 6. No lessons. Was single digit by 12, and close to scratch in HS and college. Then put my clubs essentially away for close to 30 years. When I got back to playing 7 years ago when I retired at 55, I got back down to 2-3 with focused practice and play.

 

It's recently ballooned to 6-7 as I'm fighting knee and shoulder injuries. Let's see if today's cortisone shot is the magic beans ... 😁

[DShepley]

4 minutes ago, goaliedad30 said:

I started at age 6. No lessons. Was single digit by 12, and close to scratch in HS and college. Then put my clubs essentially away for close to 30 years. When I got back to playing 7 years ago when I retired at 55, I got back down to 2-3 with focused practice and play.

 

It's recently ballooned to 6-7 as I'm fighting knee and shoulder injuries. Let's see if today's cortisone shot is the magic beans ... 😁

Do you play with other single digit players?  Is it a similar story?  I know more of them that mostly got there on their own.

[Sean124]

What is the debate? 

[iacas]

Just now, Sean124 said:

What is the debate? 

There isn't one. It's a straw man the OP created. Nobody has ever said what he's arguing against.

[Jtgavigan]

I was 11 when I started in 1981. Took 12 lessons over my first two seasons. Broke 80 for the first time in a tournament at 14. Played as a single digit from probably 16 on. Didn't get appreciably better until recently (last 3 to 4 years). I still have flaws developed back in my formative years that haunt me.

[goaliedad30]

6 minutes ago, DShepley said:

Do you play with other single digit players?  Is it a similar story?  I know more of them that mostly got there on their own.

 

I play with lots of them. No idea what their stories are! Most played some level of junior / high school / college golf (not D1, but D2/D3), so started the game at a reasonably young age.

[WesternRacing]

No swing lessons, but I’ve had a handful of lessons over the years focused on very specific things.  I know some low index golfers that took lessons from a young age and others who totally/mostly learned on their own.  But if I had to guess, I would bet that a higher percentage of good golfers learned the game by taking lessons with a teaching pro.

[aabcuue]

19 minutes ago, goaliedad30 said:

I started at age 6. No lessons. Was single digit by 12, and close to scratch in HS and college. Then put my clubs essentially away for close to 30 years. When I got back to playing 7 years ago when I retired at 55, I got back down to 2-3 with focused practice and play.

 

It's recently ballooned to 6-7 as I'm fighting knee and shoulder injuries. Let's see if today's cortisone shot is the magic beans ... 😁

No cortisone isn’t. It usually feels ok but it doesn’t last.

Don’t take too many shots or your joints soon will be aching also.

[Saijin]

1 hour ago, DShepley said:

Let's settle a debate.

 

If you are a single digit handicap, anywhere from low single to nine, did it require intensive lessons with a pro or did you largely get there on your own through a lot of play and digging it out yourself in practice?

 

I'll start....I started at 19 years old after playing multiple competitive sports, (baseball, track, volleyball), and was a 5 handicap in my third season after a lot of 'self discovery' on the driving range and a couple hundred rounds of golf.  I also surrounded myself in the game by reading and watching everything I could get my hands on.  I didn't take any formal lessons, (I've had three), until I was a single digit handicap.

 

These days after 29 years in the game and two kids, I still play between a scratch and four depending how often I have a club in my hands.  Currently I am a 2.4 index and a member at a course without a range and maintain my index by playing 2-3 times per week.  

 

Interested to hear how others got there.  (This is not a thread about getting to the tour or into plus indexes)

 

I was just thinking about this last year.

I managed to be around mid 70s without lessons and just reading books and understanding the basics. On a good day I can hit E but on bad days and weeks that's where it hits very hard because there are a few things that I wasn't aware of and my confidence took a tanking. I started to question myself and look for solutions.

 

Because of this, it really built my wedge game and putting.

 

2 years ago I decided to take a 1 month lesson with a friend from Scotland and it turned into 3 months. He showed me things I was never aware of about myself and the dynamics of my individualism. So long story short after those 3 months of intensive lessons it took me around 3 more months to ingraine almost everything he taught me.  The 4th month, I was -4 on 12 holes.... then I was 5 over after 18holes. I didn't have the mindset. Him and I spoke about it. And at the end of the season I shot -5.

 

Last year I shot -6 twice, -5 once and -4 3times from 7100+ .    My best ever I believe was -2 before lessons and that's luck and happened only once.

 

Essentially he gave me the foundations that work for me and when I'm off I always go back to those foundations and I never get angry not knowing what's wrong when I'm playing bad anymore. Then the mental frame of mind to be under par that he taught me really changed my game.

So yes, a teacher is essential, but most teachers suck and they just want to suck your $$$.

 

Right now I have a 1 way miss and I'm trying to fix that.

[Petethreeput]

Played a little in the summers in high school shot in the ‘70s using grandpas hand me downs.  As a junior in college I decided to play more regularly in college.  I got better, shot par that fall.

 

Got to a 3 on my own, but was young.  Now that I am old I take a couple lessons as a check up and hover between 1-3 after winter rust comes off.

 

I am a better 3 at almost 60 than I was as a 33 year old.  I know that sounds weird, but they are easier low scores.

[DShepley]

4 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

Played a little in the summers in high school shot in the ‘70s using grandpas hand me downs.  As a junior in college I decided to play more regularly in college.  I got better, shot par that fall.

 

Got to a 3 on my own, but was young.  Now that I am old I take a couple lessons as a check up and hover between 1-3 after winter rust comes off.

 

I am a better 3 at almost 60 than I was as a 33 year old.  I know that sounds weird, but they are easier low scores.

Same, I have a tighter scoring dispersion with age. 

[DShepley]

6 minutes ago, Saijin said:

 

I was just thinking about this last year.

I managed to be around mid 70s without lessons and just reading books and understanding the basics. On a good day I can hit E but on bad days and weeks that's where it hits very hard because there are a few things that I wasn't aware of and my confidence took a tanking. I started to question myself and look for solutions.

 

Because of this, it really built my wedge game and putting.

 

2 years ago I decided to take a 1 month lesson with a friend from Scotland and it turned into 3 months. He showed me things I was never aware of about myself and the dynamics of my individualism. So long story short after those 3 months of intensive lessons it took me around 3 more months to ingraine almost everything he taught me.  The 4th month, I was -4 on 12 holes.... then I was 5 over after 18holes. I didn't have the mindset. Him and I spoke about it. And at the end of the season I shot -5.

 

Last year I shot -6 twice, -5 once and -4 3times from 7100+ .    My best ever I believe was -2 before lessons and that's luck and happened only once.

 

Essentially he gave me the foundations that work for me and when I'm off I always go back to those foundations and I never get angry not knowing what's wrong when I'm playing bad anymore. Then the mental frame of mind to be under par that he taught me really changed my game.

So yes, a teacher is essential, but most teachers suck and they just want to suck your $$$.

 

Right now I have a 1 way miss and I'm trying to fix that.

Thanks.  You got to single digits without lessons but it took lessons to break par.

[Saijin]

Just now, DShepley said:

Thanks.  You got to single digits without lessons but it took lessons to break par.

 

Are you wanting to be a + ?

For me it's not putting or wedge play that's lacking, it's my full swing that held me back. 

I've always had good feel and imagination for putting, essentially I can see lines like on a pool table same for green curvatures.

I always think of my wedge shots as my first putt whether I'm 100yds away or doing recovery shot around the green.

 

 

[vegasandre]

1 hour ago, DShepley said:

Let's settle a debate.

 

If you are a single digit handicap, anywhere from low single to nine, did it require intensive lessons with a pro or did you largely get there on your own through a lot of play and digging it out yourself in practice?

 

I'll start....I started at 19 years old after playing multiple competitive sports, (baseball, track, volleyball), and was a 5 handicap in my third season after a lot of 'self discovery' on the driving range and a couple hundred rounds of golf.  I also surrounded myself in the game by reading and watching everything I could get my hands on.  I didn't take any formal lessons, (I've had three), until I was a single digit handicap.

 

These days after 29 years in the game and two kids, I still play between a scratch and four depending how often I have a club in my hands.  Currently I am a 2.4 index and a member at a course without a range and maintain my index by playing 2-3 times per week.  

 

Interested to hear how others got there.  (This is not a thread about getting to the tour or into plus indexes)

Very similer to you..
Started at 18 after other sports. (1985- a great year btw)
Got to mid-singles quick with no lessons except watching "golf my way" from Jack.
What other choices were there...?  Not too many had the access....
played off and on (few years off , few years on) until I moved to Vegas in 2000 and took my first lesson at Butch Harmon’s place in 7 hills.
Quit the next year when I had my 2nd kid and realizing I was terrible with a bad swing (after thinking for 15 years it was good) and I would never have the time to practice to be where I wanted to be. 
Picked it back up when the Kids finally wanted to play in their early 20's - mid covid ish. 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

There is no debate.

 

1.  Can you get to any level without lessons?  Yes

2.  Will you be hindered by 🐶💩 lessons? Yes

3.  Will you improve faster with proper instruction?  Yes

4.  After you have played for more than 3 or so years, can you improve without proper instruction and/or increased time at the course?  No

5.  Will you achieve your ceiling without proper instruction?  Extremely unlikely.

6.  Is using 1 and 2 as a platform to negate the effectiveness of proper instruction a strawman? Most definitely.

Edited June 17 by MonteScheinblum

[DShepley]

13 minutes ago, Saijin said:

 

Are you wanting to be a + ?

For me it's not putting or wedge play that's lacking, it's my full swing that held me back. 

I've always had good feel and imagination for putting, essentially I can see lines like on a pool table same for green curvatures.

I always think of my wedge shots as my first putt whether I'm 100yds away or doing recovery shot around the green.

 

 

The question in the original post is about how you got into single digits.  Did you get there by focused lessons or mainly on your own?  I have a theory that there are more single digit handicap players who dug it out on their own than those who used focused lessons to get there.

[Saijin]

5 minutes ago, DShepley said:

The question in the original post is about how you got into single digits.  Did you get there by focused lessons or mainly on your own?  I have a theory that there are more single digit handicap players who dug it out on their own than those who used focused lessons to get there.

 

I got there on my own but I wouldn't dare call myself a true or solid single digit at the time. I could easily still shoot 85.

I think there are more true single digit players who took real lessons.

[DShepley]

2 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There is no debate.

 

Can you get to any level without lessons?  Yes

Will you be hindered by 🐶💩 lessons? Yes

Will you improve faster with proper instruction?  Yes

After you have played for more than 3 or so years, can you improve without proper instruction and/or increased time at the course?  No

Will you achieve your ceiling without proper instruction?  Extremely unlikely.

This isn't about achieving a ceiling though, it's simply asking how guys got to single digits.  Myself, I have improved over the past 3 seasons with zero formal lessons and very little practice outside of playing regular rounds.  My scoring average is lower and the variation in my scoring is much tighter (this playing between 50-70 rounds per year when in my most rapid early improvement I played over 100 rounds per year).

 

To get to the ceiling, or into plus territory, more focused lessons are absolutely helpful...no question.  To get to a 3-5....I think if you are fairly athletic with good hand eye coordination, then time in the saddle goes a long way to getting you there.  Personally, I know a lot of good single digit players who have never stepped on a formal lesson tee...more than have.

[Ty_Webb]

I got a lot of lessons when I was a kid. Then I stopped for a while and got worse and then I started getting lessons again and got better again. 
 

If you find a good coach who talks the same language as you do (I don’t mean English - I mean technical/not technical) they’re going to make you better than you would be on your own. 

[MonteScheinblum]

14 minutes ago, DShepley said:

The question in the original post is about how you got into single digits.  Did you get there by focused lessons or mainly on your own?  I have a theory that there are more single digit handicap players who dug it out on their own than those who used focused lessons to get there.

See #3

 

Digging it out of the dirt when there are 10 doors you could walk through at every step.

 

Digging it out of the dirt when you 2/3 doors at every step.

 

Here’s a big thing that you’re missing in your thesis.  Yes, many and likely a majority of single digits got there with nothing more than effort and grandfather cliche syndrome.  However, a huge block of my clients are former +2 to 5 handicaps that figured it out on their own, got to the 40-70 age group and had a rapid decline in both distance and score when their body was no longer able to perform the self discovered swing.  
 

That is the part no one tells you about.

[DShepley]

15 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

See #3

 

Digging it out of the dirt when there are 10 doors you could walk through at every step.

 

Digging it out of the dirt when you 2/3 doors at every step.

 

Here’s a big thing that you’re missing in your thesis.  Yes, many and likely a majority of single digits got there with nothing more than effort and grandfather cliche syndrome.  However, a huge block of my clients are former +2 to 5 handicaps that figured it out on their own, got to the 40-70 age group and had a rapid decline in both distance and score when their body was no longer able to perform the self discovered swing.  
 

That is the part no one tells you about.

True and many people who take lessons won't make it to single digits for a lot of potential reasons.  Lessons with a good professional who resonates with you are the quickest path to improvement.  Not the only path.  Also, there are a lot of self taught players who study the game, take video on their own, and get by with critical thinking.  Age and distance loss catch up to everyone, lessons probably slow the inevitable a bit...(I'm not there yet at 48, I hit it as long now as I ever did but I'm pretty active).

 

When you first got to single digits did you rely on a lot of lessons or did your athletic background and desire mostly carry you there? (I'm not talking about getting to plus and playing on the Nike tour, just the initial push into single digits)

[tatertot]

I'm 51 ... never played better golf than the last 2 years. Finished last season at .2, struggled a little early this season.

 

Never had a lesson.

[CTgamer]

12 minutes ago, DShepley said:

True and many people who take lessons won't make it to single digits for a lot of potential reasons.  Lessons with a good professional who resonates with you are the quickest path to improvement.  Not the only path.  Also, there are a lot of self taught players who study the game, take video on their own, and get by with critical thinking.  Age and distance loss catch up to everyone, lessons probably slow the inevitable a bit...(I'm not there yet at 48, I hit it as long now as I ever did but I'm pretty active).

Honestly curious, what are you trying to prove or get at? The whole premise (what you call a debate?) seems like a leading question. Like, did you have a bad instructor? Did your buddy ask you why he’s a 25 and you’re a single digit? What’s the story here?

[DShepley]

14 minutes ago, CTgamer said:

Honestly curious, what are you trying to prove or get at? The whole premise (what you call a debate?) seems like a leading question. Like, did you have a bad instructor? Did your buddy ask you why he’s a 25 and you’re a single digit? What’s the story here?

There are many factors at play in getting to single digits.  Personally I know more single digit players, (I know a lot of them), who were athletic, played and practiced a lot and got there largely on their own rather than relying on formal lessons.  I'm trying to get a sense if others have the similar experiences.  We are often sold a story that if we don't take lessons we won't get there but that isn't always the case.  Edit.. I have had three formal lessons in 29 years...the first instructor was very bad, the other was decent.  There are a lot of poor teachers in the world in every discipline though.

Edited June 17 by DShepley

[PedronNiall]

50 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

See #3

 

Digging it out of the dirt when there are 10 doors you could walk through at every step.

 

Digging it out of the dirt when you 2/3 doors at every step.

 

Here’s a big thing that you’re missing in your thesis.  Yes, many and likely a majority of single digits got there with nothing more than effort and grandfather cliche syndrome.  However, a huge block of my clients are former +2 to 5 handicaps that figured it out on their own, got to the 40-70 age group and had a rapid decline in both distance and score when their body was no longer able to perform the self discovered swing.  
 

That is the part no one tells you about.

 

Adding injury to insult: not only do the scores balloon as the homemade swing falls apart, but body parts that have been needlessly stressed for decades say sayonara. Golf is one of the few sports that someone can be capable and active with until they're ready to checkout if we take care of ourselves and there's no reason to miss out on that. 

 

Are there instructors who teach poor fundamentals that lead to injury? Yep, but there are a lot more self-taught golfers doing it to themselves than have that misfortune, and more instructors are taught or re-taught better techniques by the year. 

 

It's almost without exception men who go the self-taught route to decent scores, but the strength that allows us to compensate for bad form takes a major toll on the body. 

[Nels55]

I tried to learn on my own, didn't work very well.  I was an 18 handicap when I gave up and took a series of lessons in 1980 and got down to 8 at one point.  

 

I also spent 2k on lessons 7 or so years ago with no effect on my index.  I still have hope though!  LOL