Putting "jitters"

[Hawkeye77]

10 minutes ago, caligolfer2103 said:

And agreed - I did look at the PGA putting stats. Definitely not holding him to that 🙂

Then just have fun and enjoy the ride!

[Petethreeput]

Here's my guess, and why I think it... but of course you know your boy better than anyone on the internet.

 

I suspect, just based on this your son is a cautious kid.  He (without saying it straight out, but saying it) is playing competitive golf to not lose (get it tight), but he isn't playing to win (knock it in).  I am pretty darned similar though much, much older and a die it in the hole guy.

 

There is a very real difference in mindset standing over a birdie putt v par putt.  AI on Google says a pro will make over 52.6% of their 8' par putts and under 39.9% of their 8' birdie putts.  While we aren't ascribing professional stats to a 14 year old, it's folly not to say the 14 year old won't have the same mental issues.  And I think this is what separated those players who dominated over the years, this didn't happen to them but it happened to the others.

 

I don't think there is an answer to it except reps, self belief, and positive memories of making the comeback putts.  I will say, I completely get the frustration but it might help him to know he isn't alone.

Edited June 24 by Petethreeput

[jda]

46 minutes ago, caligolfer2103 said:

My biggest takeaway from all this is a) don't worry too much about it, b) don't let him worry about it too much, c) keep it fun, and d) he's 14, he'll figure it out! 

 

...and progress is not linear, oft much to the chagrin of humans and their expectations.

[caligolfer2103]

@jda Yes, progress is definitely not linear. Have seen that in my kid's game and so this is definitely more about how to help him without giving him angst.

@Hawkeye77 100%. My biggest goal for him is to leave the house as a college student with a love for the game. So that is my first principle! Because if he's having fun, then I'm going to have fun. I love nothing more than watching him figure this crazy game out!

@Petethreeput I agree on this. We chatted about it and his biggest fear is banging his putt too far. Which is why he ends up leaving them short all the time. And since he's pretty quantitative, my simple explanation was dude, if you just banged every putt, you will make far more putts because you went a little longer than miss putts because you left yourself too long of a 2nd putt. That seemed to resonate with him. Someone else also said to grind 4' putts and that makes sense, because if you have conviction you can nail 4' putts, then you're really not that worried about banging a putt long.

 

Thanks again all!

[Petethreeput]

Just now, caligolfer2103 said:

dude, if you just banged every putt

I agree, but here is video, and just scrub to the 10 minute mark or so.  I felt reasonably vindicated.  (This was in the Instruction forum a while back).

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

32 minutes ago, Petethreeput said:

I agree, but here is video, and just scrub to the 10 minute mark or so.  I felt reasonably vindicated.  (This was in the Instruction forum a while back).

 

 

 

 

Not watching any of his content any more, lol, but he always "fixes" something and shortly thereafter it's always "unfixed", lol.

 

I would commend to anyone his lesson with Brad Faxon and maybe find Iona Stephen's as well.

 

Not related to you but the OP - I would not grind on 4' putts as any way of working on distance control and variety with longer putts, but I'm no putting coach.  Sounds like figuring out speed on longer putts is it - the games, as I said, are great, otherwise he'll figure it out going out and hitting putts from various distances.  

[LawGenius305]

2 hours ago, Mike_C said:

Scottie is still top 20 strokes gained putting on tour......and Nelly is better than "average" on the LPGA....which puts her in elite status for putting in the world IMO.    I wish I was as "bad" at putting as Nelly Korda.....

SGP is always relative to a benchmark (e.g., PGA Tour average). While useful, it doesn't necessarily tell you if a player is objectively "good" or "bad" at putting, only how they perform compared to that specific group. Scheffler is not a good putter. If he were just above average, he would have 2 more wins this year with 1 being the US Open.

Edited June 24 by LawGenius305

[caligolfer2103]

1 hour ago, Petethreeput said:

I agree, but here is video, and just scrub to the 10 minute mark or so.  I felt reasonably vindicated.  (This was in the Instruction forum a while back).

 

 

Hehe, totally. I've had to deal with that look from my kid, when he banged a downhill putt 5 ft past and said, see, I told you!

 

[caligolfer2103]

41 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

 

Not watching any of his content any more, lol, but he always "fixes" something and shortly thereafter it's always "unfixed", lol.

 

I would commend to anyone his lesson with Brad Faxon and maybe find Iona Stephen's as well.

 

Not related to you but the OP - I would not grind on 4' putts as any way of working on distance control and variety with longer putts, but I'm no putting coach.  Sounds like figuring out speed on longer putts is it - the games, as I said, are great, otherwise he'll figure it out going out and hitting putts from various distances.  

Yeah, I was just saying the 4' putts because it just give you the confidence you can hit the 4', which hopefully makes you less concerned about your 1st putt. But agreed, I'm just going to keep it fun with him and let him find his way... he's done it with everything else, so no reason to believe otherwise here!

[jda]

I am a huge proponent of owning 3-4 foot putts - I used to practice them a lot and have the better kids own this distance too.  This skill stays with you since I can still own this distance.  I have made many more than my share of birdies because I know that I can make a 3-4 foot comeback.  However, there is not always a reason to bang a putt into or past the hole.  Putts without a lot of break need to be probably 12 inches past the hole since you don't need to use aggressive speed to hold the line.  You have to KNOW when to bang one in, when to just settle for a 2 putt with a lag, when to die one into the hole and when to just do a normal rabbit chase... again, a dynamic routine and approach.

 

I hate most putting statistics because they do not take into consideration the game, where the player is when they hit the putt.  Most dudes who are in leads have average putting statistics because they don't need to be aggressive.  You see a lot of dudes who are down the leaderboards with better putting stats since they have to try and make each putt.  Similar to how 8 yards on 3rd and 15 is not the same as 8 yards on 1st and 10.  Looking right now, Scottie at 17th probably plays 10 places up if he is chasing leaders all the time.  Same with Rory at 6th.  I would say 10-25 is a pretty good place to be in strokes gained.  Some of the really good SG leaders also don't make the cuts or get invited to play the really tough greens... so less rounds to damage their scores that the next group has to suffer.

[Mike_C]

2 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:

Scheffler is not a good putter.

My mistake, a guy that is 3rd on tour averaging 1.706 putts per green in regulation is just not that good....hell, he drops all the way down to 14th in putts per round at 28.11, that is pathetic.....He only one putts 43.35% of the time, I sure wouldn't want him as my clean up putter in my scramble group....

[ATXGolferGuy]

9 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:

SGP is always relative to a benchmark (e.g., PGA Tour average). While useful, it doesn't necessarily tell you if a player is objectively "good" or "bad" at putting, only how they perform compared to that specific group. Scheffler is not a good putter. If he were just above average, he would have 2 more wins this year with 1 being the US Open.

I'll take Scottie's putting over just about anyone.  The benchmark is the guys he is playing against, so the stat is extremely relative to being a good/bad putter.  He is inside the top 20 on tour for putts made percentage inside 10 feet and for putts made from 10-15 feet....he'd be even higher up the 10-15 list if you took out the guys that don't have at least 100 attempts.  If he was "not a good putter" those stats would be much much worse.  

[caligolfer2103]

On 6/24/2025 at 12:55 PM, jda said:

I am a huge proponent of owning 3-4 foot putts - I used to practice them a lot and have the better kids own this distance too.  This skill stays with you since I can still own this distance.  I have made many more than my share of birdies because I know that I can make a 3-4 foot comeback.  However, there is not always a reason to bang a putt into or past the hole.  Putts without a lot of break need to be probably 12 inches past the hole since you don't need to use aggressive speed to hold the line.  You have to KNOW when to bang one in, when to just settle for a 2 putt with a lag, when to die one into the hole and when to just do a normal rabbit chase... again, a dynamic routine and approach.

 

I hate most putting statistics because they do not take into consideration the game, where the player is when they hit the putt.  Most dudes who are in leads have average putting statistics because they don't need to be aggressive.  You see a lot of dudes who are down the leaderboards with better putting stats since they have to try and make each putt.  Similar to how 8 yards on 3rd and 15 is not the same as 8 yards on 1st and 10.  Looking right now, Scottie at 17th probably plays 10 places up if he is chasing leaders all the time.  Same with Rory at 6th.  I would say 10-25 is a pretty good place to be in strokes gained.  Some of the really good SG leaders also don't make the cuts or get invited to play the really tough greens... so less rounds to damage their scores that the next group has to suffer.

This is very helpful! "Bang your putts" is my non-golfer terminology for sure, lol. A dynamic routine and approach, I like the way that sounds.

[LawGenius305]

On 6/24/2025 at 5:21 PM, Mike_C said:

My mistake, a guy that is 3rd on tour averaging 1.706 putts per green in regulation is just not that good....hell, he drops all the way down to 14th in putts per round at 28.11, that is pathetic.....He only one putts 43.35% of the time, I sure wouldn't want him as my clean up putter in my scramble group....

He also has the best proximity to the hole than any other player on tour. That skews those putting stats. 

[LawGenius305]

On 6/25/2025 at 12:04 AM, ATXGolferGuy said:

I'll take Scottie's putting over just about anyone.  The benchmark is the guys he is playing against, so the stat is extremely relative to being a good/bad putter.  He is inside the top 20 on tour for putts made percentage inside 10 feet and for putts made from 10-15 feet....he'd be even higher up the 10-15 list if you took out the guys that don't have at least 100 attempts.  If he was "not a good putter" those stats would be much much worse.  

There is reason you can find countless articles and videos on Scheffler and poor putting. While he has gotten better, he is not elite and not someone you want to take a putting lesson from. Also understand, I am a huge Scottie Fan. 

Edited June 26 by LawGenius305

[caligolfer2103]

One tournament does not a trend make. But this weekend was encouraging! Setting aside the gimmes, where he chipped to that range, he had 3 putts from ~10ft, 3 from ~15, 3 from ~18, and then 1 from 20, 1 from 30. Not all birdie putts, as some were for par. But he had no 3+ putts, didn't leave any short and made 2! There were so many ideas shared on this thread, but my biggest takeaway was to just chill, lol. If there was one thought he was able to take away, it was, don't worry about overshooting - he left a couple putts 2-3ft past the hole and he was able to just step up and knock them in. His other takeaway was that he was slightly overreading the breaks, he thinks because the putts were hit faster than he would normally, so he has to make that adjustment.

Thanks again for all the thoughts here and will be interesting to see how he does at his next one. But he walked off saying, dad, I've never felt so free putting in my life, which was so wonderful to hear!

[caligolfer2103]

Another update. I know many of you have kids far better than mine so this is all "whatever" but for those of us whose kids are going through similar struggles thought this post-mortem would be helpful! Since the thread started, my son's been working on just simplifying things. We do 10 - 30 ft speed control drills for 15-20 minutes a day and then the Jon Rahm semi-circle drill for another 15-20 to practice the shorter putts. He's also started using a digital level to practice slope reading. And then this week, he worked with his coach on an abridged Aimpoint to replace his current method (which you'll laugh, some local kid showed him and involves calculating based on distance/slope the # of inches away from center to aim.) The entire goal has been to just free his mind when he putts.

 

So yesterday's tournament got off to a rough start. On 1 and 2, he had 30 footers that he 3 putted. In both cases, he got the first putt to within 3 feet and missed the 2nd putt. Total bummer. But then he went on a great run, started off by making a 20fter on 3! 2 putted everything after with a few first putts from 30 - 35ft. And sank putts from 3, 4, 5, 8, 9 (3x).

 

I'll caveat by saying I have no expectation that he'll putt like this consistently, but I was so happy for him and I can see it slowly starting to click for him, that he doesn't need to be perfect. A couple times, he putted 3-5ft past the hole and he commented at the end, that he felt such confidence being able to hit the comeback putt. Made 5 birdies which he hasn't done in a while! 

[jda]

20 hours ago, caligolfer2103 said:

A couple times, he putted 3-5ft past the hole and he commented at the end, that he felt such confidence being able to hit the comeback putt.

 

This is beyond important.  I am a good putter and rarely three putt.  It makes my friends crazy when I put one 4-6 feet past the hole and they think that they might see a three putt, but then center cup the comeback.  This confidence and execution is a real skill that many never develop, including some good players.

 

Glad that he is making actual improvements.  Even more glad that he seems to be in a good place with his progression... which is most important.

 

30 footers to 3 feet is fine at his age (and any age on tough greens.)  Gotta make those three footers at a super high clip which is something that good amateurs can do nearly as well as pros - like 95% of college/scratch type of golfers to like 96% of pros (or so, I forget.)

 

Always, always, always remember that he is never as bad as his worst putting day, nor never as good as his best.  Head high, get better and ride the roller coaster with your hands up and a smile on your face.

[caligolfer2103]

15 minutes ago, jda said:

 

This is beyond important.  I am a good putter and rarely three putt.  It makes my friends crazy when I put one 4-6 feet past the hole and they think that they might see a three putt, but then center cup the comeback.  This confidence and execution is a real skill that many never develop, including some good players.

 

Glad that he is making actual improvements.  Even more glad that he seems to be in a good place with his progression... which is most important.

 

30 footers to 3 feet is fine at his age (and any age on tough greens.)  Gotta make those three footers at a super high clip which is something that good amateurs can do nearly as well as pros - like 95% of college/scratch type of golfers to like 96% of pros (or so, I forget.)

 

Always, always, always remember that he is never as bad as his worst putting day, nor never as good as his best.  Head high, get better and ride the roller coaster with your hands up and a smile on your face.

100% to that last paragraph. He's a resilient kid. On the first two, it was such a bummer to see him miss those short putts and it definitely rattled him. Those 2-3ft near-gimmes have always been his kryptonite. But he recovered and I was so proud of that. I'm pretty sure this weekend was just one of those days where the putting clicks and he won't always hit that many of the sub 10' ones, but it was so nice to see after that brutal stretch he's had.

[leezer99]

8 hours ago, jda said:

 

This is beyond important.  I am a good putter and rarely three putt.  It makes my friends crazy when I put one 4-6 feet past the hole and they think that they might see a three putt, but then center cup the comeback.  This confidence and execution is a real skill that many never develop, including some good players.

 

Glad that he is making actual improvements.  Even more glad that he seems to be in a good place with his progression... which is most important.

 

30 footers to 3 feet is fine at his age (and any age on tough greens.)  Gotta make those three footers at a super high clip which is something that good amateurs can do nearly as well as pros - like 95% of college/scratch type of golfers to like 96% of pros (or so, I forget.)

 

Always, always, always remember that he is never as bad as his worst putting day, nor never as good as his best.  Head high, get better and ride the roller coaster with your hands up and a smile on your face.

PGA Tour average on long lag putts is within 7 to 8% of the total distance of the putt. So at 50 feet you're looking at leaving it within 4 feet. 

[LOB-Dwight]

can you guess without looking it up what the 100th ranked strokes gained putter is on tour?  So what is their strokes gained stats.  ie.  +1.2 or -.3 etc.    I think you'll be surprised, I was.  I had never looked up that specific stat, it came in conversation today.  

 

[TroyB123]

40 minutes ago, LOB-Dwight said:

can you guess without looking it up what the 100th ranked strokes gained putter is on tour?  So what is their strokes gained stats.  ie.  +1.2 or -.3 etc.    I think you'll be surprised, I was.  I had never looked up that specific stat, it came in conversation today.  

 

By definition, halfway would be about zero for all the strokes gained stats.   If there are close to 200 PGA tour players being tracked, then it's probably around zero, or a bit below.

Edited July 21 by TroyB123

[LOB-Dwight]

3 hours ago, TroyB123 said:

By definition, halfway would be about zero for all the strokes gained stats.   If there are close to 200 PGA tour players being tracked, then it's probably around zero, or a bit below.

that is exactly right, your response was far too logical.  At least for juniors/college players it seems much easier to gain strokes in other categories vs putting.  I looked up SG off the tee and the 100th ranked player is also right around zero......

Edited July 22 by LOB-Dwight

[jda]

I probably opened a can of worms with mentioning PGA type of stats.  This has always been folly to me and we hardly never do it as coaches.  The few places that we do it is with a few elements of putting.  A good amateur can make nearly as many 3 foot putts as a pro if they are trained well, into it mentally and actually study the ball as it goes near/past the hole.  You will be shocked how many kids don't study their own putts.

 

The only other thing is percentage of hitting putts where you intended - our HS kids get to where they can go months without missing their spot.  Of course, they don't read greens and have pace like a pro so they miss putts, but they get/keep the face square and a decent enough path to get the ball going where they wanted it to nearly all of the time.

 

Beyond this, gonna be a crapshoot for me, but these two things are not a bad foundation.