Natural & Tension Free Golf - The French Golf Pro

[LeicaRedDot]

Came across the French Golf Pro, Reno, on YouTube and it created some interesting ideas. Very much focused on super relaxed, tension free and swing from the inside to create a draw pattern.

 

For players who can’t get out of their own way (me included) and stuck in the technical mind of playing golf swing, not golf, this could be an interesting rabbit hole.

 

 

Edited June 22 by LeicaRedDot

[TheDeanAbides]

Effortless and tension free are not words associated with an effective golf swing. 

[Hawkeye77]

Well, relaxed and leisurely is the definitely the vibe of cafes in Paris . . . .

 

If it works, great.

 

If he says, "Oui" all I can say is I'll just be reminded of my experience as a youth discovering this magazine I thought was "O-U-I" - at some point at one of several visits over time to a favored bookstore, the gal is running through my purchases, a couple of novels, a Golf Digest, Field and Stream and at the bottom of the pile, lol, my real reason for stopping in that day and she's reading back the titles to me and says "oui" and I look up and after an awkward pause a loud voice in my head says, "DUH!".  Good times.

[getitdaily]

The French are an interesting people. They'll be the first country to mandate a zero hour work week at full pay. 

 

So this guy is just priming the pump for a zero effort golf swing, "you can literally play while taking ze nap, no!"

 

Wis zis club, we will bunt the ball down ze fairway. 45 meters for a full pitching wedge ees good, no?

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Effortless and tension free are not words associated with an effective golf swing. 

Right. Even guys that look super smooth and effortless like Couples and Els are putting in a lot of effort in their swing.

[stryper]

Have we forgotten Count Yogi!

 

Also a GolfWRX thread from a long time ago here.

Edited June 22 by stryper

[sundaypins]

Monitoring rhythm, balance, and tension is always key even for an amalgamated video featuring Yogi, Wild Bill, Seemus and Knudson.  

[Nickc]

11 hours ago, LeicaRedDot said:

Came across the French Golf Pro, Reno, on YouTube and it created some interesting ideas. Very much focused on super relaxed, tension free and swing from the inside to create a draw pattern.

 

For players who can’t get out of their own way (me included) and stuck in the technical mind of playing golf swing, not golf, this could be an interesting rabbit hole.

 

 

Ah see this is based on Bill Owens

Triangulaid and then Flowmotion.

I will see if I can  dig out a link to his video teaching a mass group who had never played golf before. Seem to recall one of his drills was the 'no look' swing.

 

Here it is

 

A lot of his ideas were taken up by Brian Sparks & by association Julian Mellor (someone hada post about him recently).

Must admit I sometimes do the 'no look drill' if getting stuck with some 'don't know what is suddenly happening' sequencing issue - just works for me as a quick way to get things back in sync.

Edited June 22 by Nickc
Added all from bill Owens vid link

[LeicaRedDot]

15 hours ago, stryper said:

Have we forgotten Count Yogi!

 

Also a GolfWRX thread from a long time ago here.

 

First time I've heard of Count Yogi! Difficult thread to follow

[LeicaRedDot]

22 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Right. Even guys that look super smooth and effortless like Couples and Els are putting in a lot of effort in their swing.

 

From what I can gather, he is making a clear distinction between putting 'force' into a swing leading to wanting to hit the ball early and over the top, to more of a later 'whip' through the ball. Still takes effort, but adding speed at the right time

[stryper]

4 minutes ago, LeicaRedDot said:

 

First time I've heard of Count Yogi! Difficult thread to follow

That’s why I added the second link. Controversial showman, with an interesting pedigree, but his swing was about as relaxed and loopy as could be.  Worth doing a search and reading up on a rainy day.  😎

 

[rsballer10]

this type of instruction irks me because it's (a) not what he's demonstrating and (b) doesn't provide any path towards achieving what he's demonstrating. I'd argue he's actually pressuring into his trail side and accelerating the club rapidly to start the backswing. It looks effortless because most am's backswings are too slow, making the transition jerky and out of sync. But it won't happen "naturally" unless the changes are done intentionally. This type of instruction reminds me of this:

 

[sundaypins]

43 minutes ago, LeicaRedDot said:

First time I've heard of Count Yogi! Difficult thread to follow

 

34 minutes ago, stryper said:

Controversial showman, with an interesting pedigree, but his swing was about as relaxed and loopy as could be.  Worth doing a search and reading up on a rainy day.  😎

 

Within the first minute Reno's video used the words 'five simple steps' which sounded similar to Yogi's 5 Simple Steps to Perfect Golf book, and the numerical step in procedure.  

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, LeicaRedDot said:

 

From what I can gather, he is making a clear distinction between putting 'force' into a swing leading to wanting to hit the ball early and over the top, to more of a later 'whip' through the ball. Still takes effort, but adding speed at the right time

He talks about passive arms and gravity moving them down.  
 

The arms aren’t passive in the swing and gravity doesn’t drop them down.  This is part of what it sounds like he considering the effortless part. 

 

 

[stryper]

1 hour ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

Within the first minute Reno's video used the words 'five simple steps' which sounded similar to Yogi's 5 Simple Steps to Perfect Golf book, and the numerical step in procedure.  

I’m by no means a Yogi advocate/shill—in fact. I hadn’t even thought about him in a long time—it was just the flowing, tension-free swing discussion we’re having that brought him to mind again.  But I do think there’s something amusing about this character in a turban and robe, hanging with the Hollywood crowd, demonstrating his technique on the streets of Los Angeles or Las Vegas or wherever.

 

If there’s any real merit to his method, I couldn’t say, but as others have noted, Freddy Couples has made a lot of money employing a technique that does look somewhat similar to at least my untrained eye. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[GoGoErky]

9 minutes ago, stryper said:

I’m by no means a Yogi advocate/shill—in fact. I hadn’t even thought about him in a long time—it was just the flowing, tension-free swing discussion we’re having that brought him to mind again.  But I do think there’s something amusing about this character in a turban and robe, hanging with the Hollywood crowd, demonstrating his technique on the streets of Los Angeles or Las Vegas or wherever.

 

If there’s any real merit to his method, I couldn’t say, but as others have noted, Freddy Couples has made a lot of money employing a technique that does look somewhat similar to at least my untrained eye. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Fred couples on one of the lessons with a pro episode on golf channel said he’s trying trying to hit the ball as hard as possible. He’s putting a lot of effort into his swing.

 

The camera deceives how hard him or els are actually swing combined with the efficiency of the sequence of their swings, it provide a smooth, easy appearance 

[stryper]

4 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Fred couples on one of the lessons with a pro episode on golf channel said he’s trying trying to hit the ball as hard as possible. He’s putting a lot of effort into his swing.

 

The camera deceives how hard him or els are actually swing combined with the efficiency of the sequence of their swings, it provide a smooth, easy appearance 

Okay, but I guess the real question is how do you hit it hard?  Is it through brute force and muscling up?  Or is it from a relaxed, free-flowing synchronization of all the parts necessary to make it happen at impact?  We’ve all seen plenty of gorillas on the range just trying to mash the ball with varying degrees of success (and some pretty wicked slices too), but we don’t often see silky, tour-level swings locally.

 

”Effort” and “hard” are not synonyms. 

[Shilgy]

10 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Fred couples on one of the lessons with a pro episode on golf channel said he’s trying trying to hit the ball as hard as possible. He’s putting a lot of effort into his swing.

 

The camera deceives how hard him or els are actually swing combined with the efficiency of the sequence of their swings, it provide a smooth, easy appearance 

Sure…but does speed…or hitting the ball as hard as possible…negate the idea of tension free?  Soft feeling muscles move faster than tightened.  We’re not lifting 400 pounds—we’re moving a golf club as fast as possible.

[Shilgy]

Just now, stryper said:

Okay, but I guess the real question is how do you hit it hard?  Is it through brute force and muscling up?  Or is it from a relaxed, free-flowing synchronization of all the parts necessary to make it happen at impact?  We’ve all seen plenty of gorillas on the range just trying to mash the ball with varying degrees of success (and some pretty wicked slices too), but we don’t often see silky, tour-level swings locally.

 

”Effort” and “hard” are not synonyms. 

You must have hit submit just before I did with essentially the same reply.

[LeicaRedDot]

10 minutes ago, stryper said:

Okay, but I guess the real question is how do you hit it hard?  Is it through brute force and muscling up?  Or is it from a relaxed, free-flowing synchronization of all the parts necessary to make it happen at impact?  We’ve all seen plenty of gorillas on the range just trying to mash the ball with varying degrees of success (and some pretty wicked slices too), but we don’t often see silky, tour-level swings locally.

 

”Effort” and “hard” are not synonyms. 

 

Is it also a question of timing and when the effort or hitting it hard is delivered. 

 

I can relate to trying to hit the ball hard, but I know if I do this at the start of the downswing then I'm in trouble as I'll naturally come over the top. If I think about delivering power later in the swing then timing works better. 

[GoGoErky]

19 minutes ago, stryper said:

Okay, but I guess the real question is how do you hit it hard?  Is it through brute force and muscling up?  Or is it from a relaxed, free-flowing synchronization of all the parts necessary to make it happen at impact?  We’ve all seen plenty of gorillas on the range just trying to mash the ball with varying degrees of success (and some pretty wicked slices too), but we don’t often see silky, tour-level swings locally.

 

”Effort” and “hard” are not synonyms. 

Effort is put in to swing fast. It’s not brute force effort like the gorillas you mention, but there is still effort needed to swing fast and control the club.

 

theres no such thing as an effortless swing. 

18 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Sure…but does speed…or hitting the ball as hard as possible…negate the idea of tension free?  Soft feeling muscles move faster than tightened.  We’re not lifting 400 pounds—we’re moving a golf club as fast as possible.

Depends on what’s consider tension. Theres good tension and bad tension. The bad tension is tense arms, shoulders and even the face. This bad tension can come from an improper grip and causing the arms to be tense, poor posture and setup.

 

Theres tension in the grip but loose

wrists and arms and body from guys like couples and els 

[DShepley]

It's putting the speed in the correct spot.  I think if you ask most people to hit it hard, they will try to jump out of their shoes from the top.  The feeling of less effort can actually do a lot of good for some people, especially those fighting a hit impulse or people who are paralyzed with swing thoughts.

 

This seems a lot like Ernest Jones, Manuel De La Torre, George Knudson.....or Erica Larkin if you are into the modern equivalent.  In my view, the whole 'just' of this concept is to try not to manipulate the club once it's in motion.

 

When things go south for me and my head approaches the 'box of frogs' level, I resort back to George Knudson and hit a bunch of balls with my eyes closed....that teaches you very quickly about manipulating the motion.

[Pnwpingi210]

I tried it.

 

didn’t work.  For some reason the club didn’t move it self.

 

it was tension free though.  No stress on my hips or spine.

[stryper]

19 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Effort is put in to swing fast. It’s not brute force effort like the gorillas you mention, but there is still effort needed to swing fast and control the club.

 

theres no such thing as an effortless swing. 

Depends on what’s consider tension. Theres good tension and bad tension. The bad tension is tense arms, shoulders and even the face. This bad tension can come from an improper grip and causing the arms to be tense, poor posture and setup.

 

Theres tension in the grip but loose

wrists and arms and body from guys like couples and els 

Curious just how much tension you think you can put in the grip without engaging the muscles of the wrists and forearms?  
 

Obviously a club won’t move itself; there has to be some tension there, but how much?  I don’t know, but arguing every little nuance probably won’t provide the answer either. 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, stryper said:

Okay, but I guess the real question is how do you hit it hard?  Is it through brute force and muscling up?  Or is it from a relaxed, free-flowing synchronization of all the parts necessary to make it happen at impact?  We’ve all seen plenty of gorillas on the range just trying to mash the ball with varying degrees of success (and some pretty wicked slices too), but we don’t often see silky, tour-level swings locally.

 

”Effort” and “hard” are not synonyms. 

 

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

You must have hit submit just before I did with essentially the same reply.

Ever swing an axe into a tree? Hit a baseball hard? Thrown a baseball fast? 

 

It's basically the same principle...the arms generate a lot of the speed. The body helps produce speed and support the arms swinging fast. The legs provide effort too. 

Edited June 23 by getitdaily

[Pnwpingi210]

8 minutes ago, stryper said:

Curious just how much tension you think you can put in the grip without engaging the muscles of the wrists and forearms?  
 

Obviously a club won’t move itself; there has to be some tension there, but how much?  I don’t know, but arguing every little nuance probably won’t provide the answer either. 

It’s less about amount tension and more about transferring force and when and where you apply “tension” to efficiently transfer the force.

[DShepley]

44 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

 

Ever swing an axe into a tree? Hit a baseball hard? Thrown a baseball fast? 

 

It's basically the same principle...the arms generate a lot of the speed. The body helps produce speed and support the arms swinging fast. The legs provide effort too. 

In all of those actions, the hand trails and that sequence generates the speed.  The weight of the axe prevents early manipulation and you need to recruit the other parts of the chain to help build the momentum.  The golf club and clubhead, is light enough that it's easy to manipulate and accelerate the clubhead too early and off plane.

[Pnwpingi210]

45 minutes ago, DShepley said:

In all of those actions, the hand trails and that sequence generates the speed.  The weight of the axe helps prevent early manipulation and you need to recruit the other parts of the chain to help build the momentum.  The golf club and clubhead, is light enough that it's easy to manipulate and accelerate the clubhead too early and off plane.

FIFY

 

A person of average strength can absolutely cast an axe and get it out in front of the hands.  

Edited June 23 by Pnwpingi210

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

It’s less about amount tension and more about transferring force and when and where you apply “tension” to efficiently transfer the force.

Exactly. When then club is gripped in the fingers make tab the palm there’s less tension in the arms

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Exactly. When then club is gripped in the fingers make tab the palm there’s less tension in the arms

Yeah.  I really don’t feel much tension in my lower arms.  
 

right glute, left oblique, lat, serratus, delt and maybe some tricep all feel tension at different points.  I’m sure there are others I’m leaving out, but that’s mostly where I feel tension at the top of backswing and then from there is mostly a release of the tension.  
 

 

(I probably wouldn’t solely use the word tension)

Edited June 23 by Pnwpingi210