Golf Instruction Is Getting Out Of Hand: Paul Azinger

[virtuoso]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Possibly, but that's also not really what he said (talking about the up-and-coming players), plus the phone call was two years ago.

 

I don't see it as a long-term trend. Not yet at least. And it's not like there weren't some other shut players back then, so… I don't know. The one point he could have maybe landed I still feel like he didn't even really land, and the interviewer didn't know enough to dive deeper. (Or he chose not to, as it's really just one of many topics in the whole interview.)

Was diving deeper even possible?

[airjammer]

I likes what he said and it boils down to great players find a way to succeed. 
 

Social media and YouTube instruction is just advertising for the instruction community. The only people any of that content actually helps is the instructor and that’s because the content isn’t specific to each person viewing it. Once you view “content” thru that lens then you just view it as entertainment which is  all that it is. 
 

Dan told me once that basically if people knew what they needed in their swing to make them better they wouldn’t need an instructor and since the vast majority of people can’t do that, it’s pretty much a waste of time to try random tips found on the web. 

[WesternRacing]

3 hours ago, tatertot said:

This is it ... I have a self-built game that is built on bubble game and duct tape, but it's worked to get me near scratch. Could I start over with good instruction and improve? Possibly, but at 50+, don't feel like investing that much time and brainpower. Should I teach my swing to anyone? NO.

 

Same here.  When I’m playing with someone and they ask me for swing advice, I politely decline and refer them to any one of our experienced teaching pros.  I’m self taught and all feel, and I’m certain that what I think I’m doing in a golf swing is NOT what I’m actually doing.  So if I try to tell people what to do based on what I think I do, I’m sure it’ll be wrong and just make them worse.  I’ll happily provide some basic, fundamental chipping or putting tips if I notice that they’re really just doing some awful things in that aspect of the game, but that’s it.  No full swing advice.  And I cringe every time I hear average hackers dispensing swing advice to their buddies on the range or on the course.  

[HunkaHunkaBirdieLove]

26 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Same here.  When I’m playing with someone and they ask me for swing advice, I politely decline and refer them to any one of our experienced teaching pros.  I’m self taught and all feel, and I’m certain that what I think I’m doing in a golf swing is NOT what I’m actually doing.  So if I try to tell people what to do based on what I think I do, I’m sure it’ll be wrong and just make them worse.  I’ll happily provide some basic, fundamental chipping or putting tips if I notice that they’re really just doing some awful things in that aspect of the game, but that’s it.  No full swing advice.  And I cringe every time I hear average hackers dispensing swing advice to their buddies on the range or on the course.  

I played my second round of golf in 5 years yesterday after having just got back into the game within the last month. I was a single, so I was playing through a lot of groups but I had some high school kid on one of the tee-boxes ask me for swing advice. I was incredulous and had to politely inform him of how much I sucked. Pretty much self-taught as well.

 

Edited June 30 by HunkaHunkaBirdieLove

[ShowMe]

Could have been worse.  Azinger could have been interviewed about his favorite topic - how pressure causes pros to choke.

[Nels55]

Watching that video reminded me of why I would turn the volume down when Azinger was doing a golf telecast. 

[NoTalentLefty]

Azinger is right and wrong. No one differentiates between what type of learner are you, feel or tech, etc. I’m feel bent minded  and do better with that. 

[TheDeanAbides]

On 6/30/2025 at 2:03 PM, DShepley said:

Here is an interesting take from Golf Digest regarding handicaps over the past 40 years.  Men's and Women's handicaps have only modestly improved in the past 40 years, (an average of about 3 strokes), though in that time, course conditions have improved, equipment is much better and the ball goes further with less spin (we know the correlation between handicap and how far a person hits the ball).

 

Equipment and conditions likely have had more impact on this handicap improvement than instruction.  Now...slightly less than 20% of the golfing population take formal lessons and I expect the players who see the best results from this are likely on the margins.  High handicap players can shave strokes with a better understanding of the game / swing, and lower handicap players often devote the time required for the lessons to be fruitful.  Truth is, regardless of tech and science, golf is hard.....and there is still a lot of conflicting info in the 'teaching space'.  Just look at this board...for every guru that posts an idea there is a pile on of hate and 1 million reasons they are wrong (even if they actually make players better).

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfers-average-handicaps-1984-2023-usga-handicap-archive 

You really love drumming this fallacy about self taught players over instruction, don't you? 

[bcflyguy1]

On 6/29/2025 at 2:47 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

What’s out of hand is people going on message boards and social media with antiquated and objectively incorrect information.

This also holds true for club fitting.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, bcflyguy1 said:

This also holds true for club fitting.

If you hook the ball you need a stiffer shaft and a bigger grip. 😜

[bcflyguy1]

7 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

If you hook the ball you need a stiffer shaft and a bigger grip. 😜

[ThinkingPlus]

14 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

If you hook the ball you need a stiffer shaft and a bigger grip. 😜

Or if you're a woman that hooks the ball, "you need to swing smoother and just work on hitting it straight, honey".

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Or if you're a woman that hooks the ball, "you need to swing smoother and just work on hitting it straight, honey".

Did some loser tell you that?

[ThinkingPlus]

11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Did some loser tell you that?

No, but I could see it happening. I was asked a couple of times during lessons how much better I wanted/thought I could get. Sort of a back handed compliment I guess, but I really was looking for things I could learn to get better even if they were small.

[Mcgeeno]

The instructors with skin in the game online have issues with someone questioning the excessive amount of information and instruction online.

 

Other breaking news at 11! 

[RayPlan]

7 hours ago, Mcgeeno said:

The instructors with skin in the game online have issues with someone questioning the excessive amount of information and instruction online.

 

Other breaking news at 11! 

Counterpoint: instructors here who teach online have valuable insight into the problem because they see students (and posters here) who have sloshed around in the soup of online golf tips and free instruction videos and come out all soggy and disintegrated. That makes their jobs harder.

[mshills]

On 7/3/2025 at 2:44 PM, ThinkingPlus said:

Or if you're a woman that hooks the ball, "you need to swing smoother and just work on hitting it straight, honey".

I hope you did not experience that. 👎🏼

 

The missus in my household just had her first private lesson. She’s a new player and has attended two series of small group clinics to get started, and she tends to hook the ball too.
 

The lesson was great — with our assistant pro. She paid for an hour, he spent >2 with her because he said he didn’t have anything else going on that afternoon and why not, because it was fun. Range, short game area, played #17, then putting green. He is a young guy just getting started and kept it simple for her, mostly some setup fundamentals then shot selection from under 30 yards. Good stuff. 

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

I hope you did not experience that. 👎🏼

 

The missus in my household just had her first private lesson. She’s a new player and has attended two series of small group clinics to get started, and she tends to hook the ball too.
 

The lesson was great — with our assistant pro. She paid for an hour, he spent >2 with her because he said he didn’t have anything else going on that afternoon and why not, because it was fun. Range, short game area, played #17, then putting green. He is a young guy just getting started and kept it simple for her, mostly some setup fundamentals then shot selection from under 30 yards. Good stuff. 

No, it never happened to me. I've never had any really bad experiences with lessons or schools. Most were meh, but a couple were good. Last one has turned out to be very good. Unfortunately the instructor is super busy with many of the good juniors in the area. Been working on things he gave me for a couple years now. Finally getting the final piece in place.

 

Sounds like you found a good instructor. Always nice when that happens.

[DShepley]

I'm not the biggest Zinger fan, but I'd bet that he could help most of the people on this board get better at golf.  It would be silly to think that there isn't anything to be learned from a player who has spent time at the top of the sport.

[Jonnielopes19]

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/dont-watch-youtube-tigers-top-advice-to-amateurs-is-to-get-out-on-the-range

"Dont watch YouTube" - Tiger 

 

Need we say more???

[KNOWMOREDOUBLES]

Imagine how great Hogan or Nicklaus could have been if they had a trackman and pressure plates.

Edited July 13 by KNOWMOREDOUBLES

[MonteScheinblum]

15 minutes ago, KNOWMOREDOUBLES said:

Imagine how great Hogan or Nicklaus could have been if they had a trackman and pressure plates.

Agree, they would have been better.  Just like modern football, baseball and basketball players are all better because of superior training.

[MonteScheinblum]

On 7/7/2025 at 7:07 AM, DShepley said:

I'm not the biggest Zinger fan, but I'd bet that he could help most of the people on this board get better at golf.  It would be silly to think that there isn't anything to be learned from a player who has spent time at the top of the sport.

At playing golf better, 💯, at improving their swing, unlikely.

[MonteScheinblum]

40 minutes ago, Jonnielopes19 said:

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/dont-watch-youtube-tigers-top-advice-to-amateurs-is-to-get-out-on-the-range

"Dont watch YouTube" - Tiger 

 

Need we say more???

Agree, most of what’s on YouTube and social media is trash…..but if you find the right channels, it’s very helpful.  Harrington to name 1.

[jakeecsj]

 are you saying Harrington is ok?

[ThinkingPlus]

4 minutes ago, jakeecsj said:

 are you saying Harrington is ok?

If you want to get a response it is better to use "Quote" method to reply to a post as I have done here. You can also ping a member directly using "@" followed by member name using the pull-down menu like @MonteScheinblum.

[jakeecsj]

8 minutes ago, jakeecsj said:

 are you saying Harrington is ok?

 

[ThinkingPlus]

29 minutes ago, jakeecsj said:

 

Uh, do quoted reply to Monte's post so he gets notified.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, jakeecsj said:

 are you saying Harrington is ok?

He’s very good 

[ShowMe]

On 7/3/2025 at 10:11 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

You really love drumming this fallacy about self taught players over instruction, don't you? 

Why is it a fallacy?