How in the world are both of these wedges 10 degree bounce? (RTZ vs DTC)

canuker · June 30

I've been using "Lazrus" wedges since I got into golf 2 years ago. The 58 degree is listed as 10 degrees bounce.

I decided to treat myself to a new lob wedge yesterday (without getting fit, my mistake) and opted for RTZ Tour Rack Mid 58-10. I took it straight to the range short game area after buying and it felt unbelievably clunky compared the my Lazrus. I'm a strong wedge player around the greens and I felt like I couldn't hit any finesse shots. It felt terrible to be honest.

I changed over to my Lazrus and was right back to the shots I was used to. I held them up to compare side by side (which I hadnt done yet) and the Lazrus looks like a knife compared to the RTZ. It also feels like a knife in comparison (in a good way for me).

Is this due to the grind and not the bounce? Is that Lazrus bounce just extremely mislabelled?

RTZ 58-10 "Mid":

Lazrus 58-10:

Lazrus left, RTZ right:

Lazrus spec sheet:

Edited June 30 by canuker
Added context.

DaveGoodrich · June 30

The bounce number stamped on a wedge is the "effective bounce," i.e. the manufacturer's opinion about how the wedge will play for typical golfers, not an actual measured bounce angle. Depending on the turf conditions and your individual delivery of the clubhead into impact, that may or may not be how it plays for you. Wedges with wider soles can have higher "effective" bounce, even when the measured angle isn't that high, and vice-versa. That RTZ looks like it has a higher actual measured bounce than the Lazrus, but is effectively narrower because of the front-to-back camber. So it will play with higher bounce than the Lazrus when square, but probably with lower bounce when opened.

ChaosTheory · June 30

I've measured a lot of wedges, and wouldn't even say it's effective bounce. It's marketing bounce.

Most wedges, or at least the bouncy ones, have more than the given number. But they don't want to put 15 or 20 on the club.

The bottom line is, you have to learn what your preferred style looks like. Hold it against a straight surface in the shop and look at where the bounce is located from front to rear, the overall shape, how high is the leading edge, etc. Now you can start building a knowledge base on what wedge grinds work for you. The number is almost meaningless, as you found out.

I like the RTZ mid grind because it fits my profile, but I consider it to be pretty high bounce within that profile.

Arlin964 · June 30

Bounce number is very misleading when comparing different OEMs. Just like shaft stiffness from brand to brand.

I have figured out that the grind and sole shape is more important to me than the bounce number.

For example, s159 58S10 has “4 degrees more bounce” than s159 60T6.

The 60T6 feels miles more forgiving on the turf than the 58S10, for me. S grind gets stuck on the leading edge and the T grind with “less bounce” just glides right across the turf with a normal swing.

And that’s within the same OEM and wedge family!

rsballer10 · June 30

The bounce number has gotten meaningless because they have the appearance of being an objective measurement, but are really subjective and are suggestions by the OEM.

Bounce numbers used to be objective, because wedges all had full soles. Bounce could be easily quantified, and when combined with sole width you could predict how a wedge would play. Real grinds (grinding a sole from a blank) consist of starting with a full sole wedge and removing material where needed. The club itself would still be stamped with the original bounce #.

Current models are just cast in the shape they want. To be fair, it would probably be confusing if a Vokey M grind had 20* of forward bounce and stamped that on the sole. People would think that it has more bounce than a 14F.

canuker · June 30

Great info every. I appreciate it. Wedges is my least understood gear area and this is super helpful.

Looks like I'll be selling this one and trying to get a fitting and/or at least give each sole a better eyeball test now that I have noticed these discrepancies.

This 58-10 RTZ is far from the right fit for me given what I got used to over the last couple of years. Maybe RTZ Low would be a better fit but I'll have to see it in person.

gentles · June 30

Best bet is to take your wedge to the shop and see if you can find something with a similar profile

low bounce k might be close?

RacineBoxer · June 30

1 hour ago, canuker said:

Great info every. I appreciate it. Wedges is my least understood gear area and this is super helpful.

Looks like I'll be selling this one and trying to get a fitting and/or at least give each sole a better eyeball test now that I have noticed these discrepancies.

This 58-10 RTZ is far from the right fit for me given what I got used to over the last couple of years. Maybe RTZ Low would be a better fit but I'll have to see it in person.

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself shallow into the ball or steep? Take a divot on a little 30 yard pitch shot or just bruise the grass?

canuker · June 30

18 minutes ago, RacineBoxer said:

Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself shallow into the ball or steep? Take a divot on a little 30 yard pitch shot or just bruise the grass?

I'm pretty shallow in all aspect of the game, to a fault.

I will take a divot with the shot you mentioned but now I'm wondering if thats due to the apparent low bounce of my current wedge digging easily. Chicken or egg scenario if you know what I mean. Even then though its usually a shallow divot unless its quite wet outside.

I have only tested the RTZ greenside chips <20 yards and on those shots I am very shallow typically which I think is why I struggled so much. I consider greenside anything <20 and I play those shots differently where I will open the face and get quite handsy which I'm pretty decent at.

I'd imagine the RTZ would actually feel quite nice on 75 yard- 30 yard "approach" shots though. I hit all of those shots dead square and would probably benefit from the additional bounce.

I'll try it on course tonight.

Edited June 30 by canuker

canuker · June 30

Maybe I should carry a finesse wedge and just keep this one 😅 Would be a bit excessive though, 5 wedges. But I do have room in the bag.

Ri_Redneck · July 1

Bounce looks pretty similar between those heads, they just have different sole designs. Camber makes the bounce look less. As bounce is measured with the face square, laying the face open will greatly increase the bounce unless there is relief ground off the trailing edge. When that is done, you can maintain 10* regardless of opening the face. It all depends on what suits the golfer and what they like.

BT

cristphoto · July 1

I have ping i230 irons and Vokey SM9 wedges. The specs for the i230 pitching wedge is 11 degrees of bounce. The specs for my Vokey 56 and 60 wedges are 10 degrees bounce for each. But when I eyeball them closely the Vokeys appear to have much more bounce than the Ping.

hammergolf · July 1

On 6/30/2025 at 11:40 AM, canuker said:

I've been using "Lazrus" wedges since I got into golf 2 years ago. The 58 degree is listed as 10 degrees bounce.

I decided to treat myself to a new lob wedge yesterday (without getting fit, my mistake) and opted for RTZ Tour Rack Mid 58-10. I took it straight to the range short game area after buying and it felt unbelievably clunky compared the my Lazrus. I'm a strong wedge player around the greens and I felt like I couldn't hit any finesse shots. It felt terrible to be honest.

I changed over to my Lazrus and was right back to the shots I was used to. I held them up to compare side by side (which I hadnt done yet) and the Lazrus looks like a knife compared to the RTZ. It also feels like a knife in comparison (in a good way for me).

Is this due to the grind and not the bounce? Is that Lazrus bounce just extremely mislabelled?

RTZ 58-10 "Mid":

Lazrus 58-10:

Lazrus left, RTZ right:

Lazrus spec sheet:

This is where manufacturers do no good with golfers. By definition bounce is the angle that is made between the leading edge and trailing edge of the club when the shaft is in a vertical position. There is so much more to how a sole and wedge will perform than just a “bounce” number. Sole width, sole camber, and sole grind have as much if not more to do with turf interaction as bounce does. Ping is one of the few that try to use the term “effective bounce” but even then that’s still not a true measurement.