Perception of "effort" in your full swing

[me05501]

What's your impression of the muscular effort you're putting into a stock full swing? Maybe on a scale of 1-10? 

 

I've been around 7-8 but I'm trying to groove something closer to 4-5. 

 

I've been working with a good local pro this year and consider my current swing to be a work in progress with the goal of finding a little more speed overall. 

 

The pro and I have noticed that I have a negative tendency to equate muscular effort with generating a faster or better swing. Tension feels strong and athletic to me but it slows down my turn and messes with my sequencing. 

 

Lately I've been trying to focus on technique over effort and my ball flight and distance are improving while my perceived level of effort is less. 

 

When I relax and focus to my tempo and sequencing I find that my turn is better and center contact is improved. It almost feels too easy, and I'm a bit worried about slipping into a lazy move where I cheat my pivot and just move my arms around me, so I'm concentrating on making a full turn back and making sure I have a full release beyond the ball. 

 

What's your experience in this endeavor?

 

[ThinkingPlus]

At least 8 - 9 for me. My range sessions double as workouts. LOL!

[TheDeanAbides]

You'll have to define effort. We've already had an exhausting debate on this kinda topic quite recently. Clearly defined terms help. 

[ShortGolfer]

2 or 3?  I get my distance from tempo and sequencing, not muscular effort.  Self taught.  130 yard approach high fade approach shots from the fairway. 5ft 2in Senior. 106 lbs. Sometimes it looks like I'd be lucky to hit it out of my shadow. 

 

I get my best drives out of a long slow swing.  I can alternate between straight draw that rolls and follow it up with the high approach that sits.  I don't mind taking an extra stroke to get on the dance floor.

I have been able to go through three short Par 3s with tiny greens in regulation.

 

As a senior stroke survivor I looked for a back friendly swing that would help me stay upright.  I have a lot lot lower body strength from gardening while squatting.  I learned to rotate my body first.

A year later started to add a small amount of weight shift at the right time in the swing to obtain a 20% increase in distance.   I had some health issues so I stopped adding the weight shift but I may be adding it back in now for more distance.  I like to watch the ball flight to practice my swing.

Edited July 6 by ShortGolfer

[getitdaily]

Driver...I'm a 9 every shot. I go to 10 when I have an open fairway and need a bit more.

 

On irons, stock yardage I'm 8 or 9. 

[PJE]

For me, I try to swing as fast as possible but there comes a point when that effort overwhelms sequencing and then I usually miss it thin. 

 

But the backswing is crucial for me with a good turn which feels like it’s rotational, but also upward (not flat). On my best shots, it feels like the core and shoulders and not just the arms are moving back. And then on the downswing, it feels like a pause (but there isn’t really one based on videos) as my trail shoulder comes through. It feels fast but not muscular or hard. 

So, I think “muscular” and “effort” and how that relates to a swing is in the eye of the beholder.  I think of effort in terms of lifting something heavy or using a pick axe or digging in hard dirt. 
 

But I’m not that great a player, right now just a 10 handicap, so my comments may not be useful or insightful. 

[me05501]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You'll have to define effort. We've already had an exhausting debate on this kinda topic quite recently. Clearly defined terms help. 

Maybe “exertion” is a better word? Whatever people feel when they’re about to lift a heavy weight is what I’m talking about here. 

[Roejye]

40 minutes ago, me05501 said:

Maybe “exertion” is a better word? Whatever people feel when they’re about to lift a heavy weight is what I’m talking about here. 

In terms of lifting a heavy weight? I'd say probably around a 2 to 5, depending on the weight. In terms of a golf swing though, I'd say I try to swing at a 8 or 9. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Maybe “exertion” is a better word? Whatever people feel when they’re about to lift a heavy weight is what I’m talking about here. 

 

15 minutes ago, Roejye said:

In terms of lifting a heavy weight? I'd say probably around a 2 to 5, depending on the weight. In terms of a golf swing though, I'd say I try to swing at a 8 or 9. 

 

Agreed. I don't think of a golf swing exertion in anywhere near the same way I'd think of lifting a heavy weight. 

 

For me, I know from a range session--where I was trying to accelerate hands earlier but essentially I think video showed I was just swinging "harder"--that I've got another club to club and a half in me on irons if I'm really trying to hit it hard. But bad things happen in my swing if I do that lol.

 

I'd say my "stock swing" on irons is an 8. I'm by no means trying to swing "slow and smooth" or "take something off", but I'm also never going at it 100% WOT. 

 

Driver might be 8.5-9. 

 

Bad things happen at 10/10. Worse things happen, MUCH worse, at 11/10 😂

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, me05501 said:

What's your impression of the muscular effort you're putting into a stock full swing? Maybe on a scale of 1-10? 

 

I've been around 7-8 but I'm trying to groove something closer to 4-5. 

 

I've been working with a good local pro this year and consider my current swing to be a work in progress with the goal of finding a little more speed overall. 

 

The pro and I have noticed that I have a negative tendency to equate muscular effort with generating a faster or better swing. Tension feels strong and athletic to me but it slows down my turn and messes with my sequencing. 

 

Lately I've been trying to focus on technique over effort and my ball flight and distance are improving while my perceived level of effort is less. 

 

When I relax and focus to my tempo and sequencing I find that my turn is better and center contact is improved. It almost feels too easy, and I'm a bit worried about slipping into a lazy move where I cheat my pivot and just move my arms around me, so I'm concentrating on making a full turn back and making sure I have a full release beyond the ball. 

 

What's your experience in this endeavor?

 

I understand and agree with you completely.  
 

when I get into that “ smash” mode.  It’s not long before I’m blocking driver.  And pulling irons. Or both. 
 

for me. The feel on my best tempo days are slow and lazy. But these swings for me as measured by garmin g80 are 2.9-3.1 tempo …which is dead middle of where you want to be. I’m apparently one of those outliers that feel it correctly. When I “ speed up “ it’s too fast and out of whack. 
 

im in a little crap spell currently with this very thing.  And it always comes from the hulk smash tendency.  Feel good. So hit  it harder. 160 in. Smooth stock 8. Helll no. Smoke the 9. That sort of thing.  Makes it worse that I can do it sometimes. Which trains the brain like mine to keep going at it.  
 

my best rounds I’d say it all feels like a 7 7.5.     When I get out of sync it’s 9-10 ish. Out of 10. 8 is the perfect world.  How to stay there is the key.  No seriosly. How ? 🤣

Edited July 6 by bladehunter

[Petethreeput]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You'll have to define effort. We've already had an exhausting debate on this kinda topic quite recently. Clearly defined terms help. 

Etymology goes to die with a few folks on this board.

 

Any rational person knows exactly what he is talking about.

 

It is rationally impossible to define effort, bc it is 100% subjective.

[Yakhandicap]

I’ve been finding that the swing feeling “easy” tends to equal “farther”. Recent lessons have added almost 5-7mph to my irons and 40% less effort. Part of my issue is that I don’t believe it unless I have immediate feedback. 

Edited July 6 by Yakhandicap

[wagolfer7]

If by effort you mean maximum speed then i think you'll find that 8-9 range to be accurate. 

 

I should clarify this as, effort for maximum speed. Just because you put in more effort or swing harder doesn't always equal speed.  

 

Amateurs can have better results slowing down because of sequencing. 

 

Elite players are not maximizing gfr and catapulting their upper body to swing at a 4-5 on the scale. 

Edited July 7 by wagolfer7

[ShortGolfer]

I use a GPS receiver to measure the distance to the green.  This year the ball have been landing hole high and bouncing 5 yards to the back of the green, so I've needed to recalibrate my iron distances.

I'll take my time and get the longest distances I've ever seen with my irons off the tee and fairway.  I figure I'm playing faster by taking my time to put the ball on the green with my middle irons. 😃

[PedronNiall]

11 hours ago, me05501 said:

What's your impression of the muscular effort you're putting into a stock full swing? Maybe on a scale of 1-10? 

 

I've been around 7-8 but I'm trying to groove something closer to 4-5. 

 

I've been working with a good local pro this year and consider my current swing to be a work in progress with the goal of finding a little more speed overall. 

 

The pro and I have noticed that I have a negative tendency to equate muscular effort with generating a faster or better swing. Tension feels strong and athletic to me but it slows down my turn and messes with my sequencing. 

 

Lately I've been trying to focus on technique over effort and my ball flight and distance are improving while my perceived level of effort is less. 

 

When I relax and focus to my tempo and sequencing I find that my turn is better and center contact is improved. It almost feels too easy, and I'm a bit worried about slipping into a lazy move where I cheat my pivot and just move my arms around me, so I'm concentrating on making a full turn back and making sure I have a full release beyond the ball. 

 

What's your experience in this endeavor?

 

 

Used to wear myself out. I could hit a ton of balls and play 36 without issue,  but there was a lot of exertion on each pass because of all the ways I tried to actively drive the swing. It's not zero effort now, but normal swings don't feel like I'm having to put a lot in to get good results, so effortless is how I think of it. Maybe around a 5 for most irons. A standard pitch shot would be more like a 2, a punch about a 4. Driver would be a 6. Good, athletic motion each time, same as any other sport. Most fun are when you really get a hold of it and can feel how well you get through the ball but it comes across as having done so little to make it happen. 

 

For context, I was deep in the fire the hips in both directions camp, in and out of the always drive with the legs camp, and so on. Once I got into the good sequencing camp and started the swing by moving the club/arms with the hip turn and lower body loading/wind up coming from the club going first it was pretty much immediate that it started down the road of feeling effortless relative to the old. Also fixed a grip issue that was costing me consistency and leaking power. It does almost feel too easy, but that's what efficiency is about, getting as much output as possible from as little input as possible.

 

No wasted motion hits different as the youths would say. I'm effortless gang now, rizzing up the ball every swing. Exertion gang is chopped.

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

Etymology goes to die with a few folks on this board.

 

Any rational person knows exactly what he is talking about.

 

It is rationally impossible to define effort, bc it is 100% subjective.

I guess you missed the previous thread then. Effort could mean that you have to work hard to manage compensations but you don't swing hard because of the effort required. In that context high levels of effort do not result in good and powerful shots. 

 

Effort could also mean that you have an efficient swing and you hit the ball hard knowing that your mechanics are sound. In that context high levels of effort bring the rewards of good powerful shots. 

 

Maybe I'm not rational, as you suggest, or maybe I'm just more complex a thinker...

[Riga]

Learn how to leverage the stretch shorten cycle or nobody will know your name.  A simple demonstration, jump without preloading.

 

Riga

 

 

Edited July 7 by Riga

[bladehunter]

6 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Used to wear myself out. I could hit a ton of balls and play 36 without issue,  but there was a lot of exertion on each pass because of all the ways I tried to actively drive the swing. It's not zero effort now, but normal swings don't feel like I'm having to put a lot in to get good results, so effortless is how I think of it. Maybe around a 5 for most irons. A standard pitch shot would be more like a 2, a punch about a 4. Driver would be a 6. Good, athletic motion each time, same as any other sport. Most fun are when you really get a hold of it and can feel how well you get through the ball but it comes across as having done so little to make it happen. 

 

For context, I was deep in the fire the hips in both directions camp, in and out of the always drive with the legs camp, and so on. Once I got into the good sequencing camp and started the swing by moving the club/arms with the hip turn and lower body loading/wind up coming from the club going first it was pretty much immediate that it started down the road of feeling effortless relative to the old. Also fixed a grip issue that was costing me consistency and leaking power. It does almost feel too easy, but that's what efficiency is about, getting as much output as possible from as little input as possible.

 

No wasted motion hits different as the youths would say. I'm effortless gang now, rizzing up the ball every swing. Exertion gang is chopped.

Yep.  👍. All of that.   It’s crazy how much more effort the hulk smash swing takes. 
 

I think of it this way.  And I’ve done this experiment on a monitor a million times.  If someone says “ give me a max swing “.  Vs if someone says “ give me max ballspeed “. Those two swings aren’t the same.    But here’s the hilarious rub. ** Sometimes***. That max effort will make 1-2 more mph SWING speed.  But not always.    There’s a line of diminishing returns for anyone with natural speed.  I’ve seen it in all sports I’ve played.   You’d see it a lot in the high jump.   There’s a line where more effort meant more stretch on the last step before takeoff. And if you crossed that line of leverage you couldn’t recover and you’d lose momentum up.  Think of that example like trying to max ballspeed from too wide of a setup stance.  At some point you’ll lose leverage and momentum. 

Edited July 7 by bladehunter

[sundaypins]

35 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I think of it this way.  And I’ve done this experiment on a monitor a million times.  If someone says “ give me a max swing “.  Vs if someone says “ give me max ballspeed “. Those two swings aren’t the same.      You’d see it a lot in the high jump.   There’s a line where more effort meant more stretch on the last step before takeoff. And if you crossed that line of leverage you couldn’t recover and you’d lose momentum up.  . 

 

These are great thoughts, momentum and speed interplay.  

 

 

[virtuoso]

I push as much energy through the gateways as I can before I start clenching my teeth. I don’t know what the numbers are. 

[TheDeanAbides]

12 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I push as much energy through the gateways as I can before I start clenching my teeth. I don’t know what the numbers are. 

I did not read that as referencing the golf swing... 

 

[virtuoso]

10 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I did not read that as referencing the golf swing... 

 

Virtuoso’s Manifesto operates with universal themes.

[bladehunter]

28 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I did not read that as referencing the golf swing... 

 

Me too 🤣.  But I hated to be The only one. Thanks. 😜.   I’m not alone !  

[Simpsonia]

Somewhat related to the discussion of the 'hulk smash swing' above, I think I'd like to add that assigning a single number to the entire swing can be a bit reductive in some ways. I think it could be more informative to discuss perceived effort at different points in the swing sequence. For example, Tiger has famously said that he feels all of his speed, power, and effort post-impact. Now that doesn't mean that he wasn't using some level of effort pre-impact, but just that his swing intention was to apply the majority of his effort post-impact. That would be quite a difference from someone who says they feel all of that effort from the top, such as a 'hulk smash swing' (this is not one of those dumb passive arms arguments, please don't make it one). 

 

To take the analogy a little further into the feels arena (which I recognize is a bit unique to me), I also try to feel all of my speed/effort post-impact. My personal feel is that when the club shaft is lead leg parallel (or perfectly perpendicular to the ground, just a tad past impact), I feel like I'm pulling a sword from the stone with a high level of effort. Everything before that was just a bit of a "running start" to the effort in pulling that sword from the stone. 

[TheDeanAbides]

18 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Me too 🤣.  But I hated to be The only one. Thanks. 😜.   I’m not alone !  

I'm most of the way through writing a tweens/YA comedy adventure book that contains a fair bit of toilet humour. I'm primed to see it everywhere!

[Rbsiedsc]

17 hours ago, Roejye said:

In terms of lifting a heavy weight? I'd say probably around a 2 to 5, depending on the weight. In terms of a golf swing though, I'd say I try to swing at a 8 or 9. 

FYI you’d have a much easier golf swing with more speed if you had super high exertion moving fast in the gym to teach the muscles to move faster. Just food for thought. 

[mshills]

“Swinging easy” is bunk! 
 

If I’m patient in transition, a critical feel for me, then I can hit it as hard as I wish from there. I don’t hit short irons as hard as I wish, that is pretty dumb to do that with a 9i instead of just grabbing 8i. 

[Lobby]

Inbee Park is my hero

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I did not read that as referencing the golf swing... 

 

 

I did, lol, and now I never will again, haha.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

Somewhat related to the discussion of the 'hulk smash swing' above, I think I'd like to add that assigning a single number to the entire swing can be a bit reductive in some ways. I think it could be more informative to discuss perceived effort at different points in the swing sequence. For example, Tiger has famously said that he feels all of his speed, power, and effort post-impact. Now that doesn't mean that he wasn't using some level of effort pre-impact, but just that his swing intention was to apply the majority of his effort post-impact. That would be quite a difference from someone who says they feel all of that effort from the top, such as a 'hulk smash swing' (this is not one of those dumb passive arms arguments, please don't make it one). 

 

To take the analogy a little further into the feels arena (which I recognize is a bit unique to me), I also try to feel all of my speed/effort post-impact. My personal feel is that when the club shaft is lead leg parallel (or perfectly perpendicular to the ground, just a tad past impact), I feel like I'm pulling a sword from the stone with a high level of effort. Everything before that was just a bit of a "running start" to the effort in pulling that sword from the stone. 

Love this post.  And I appreciate you being brave enough to make it. I bit my fingers to not type similar earlier. Mostly because I couldn’t decide how to word it. And .  Because I was afraid of being confusing.  But I think of it the same way.  For ME.  My feels mirror what tiger says. I feel speed right at or post impact and up. Whne I’m in good tempo and swinging good. I feel very slow going back. I’m not VERY slow. But I feel that way.  Feels controlled.  And feels like the only time I get my hands coming back down out front.