Early wrist set: yes or no?

[naval2006]

I usually see threads on this forum about early wrist set during the takeaway.  It's like an in thing at WRX.  

 

Yesterday a friend sent me a vid of Max Homa's swing.  I don't see those vids that analyze tour players swings and explain technique, but when I saw Homa's swing in slow motion it was kind of mesmerizing.  

 

Apart from the beauty of his swing, what drew my attention most was how straight his hands and wrists are during the takeaway, a la Nicklaus. 

 

My question to the coaches here is if early wrist set is better than one piece takeaway or it all depends on the player's ability and natural tendencies. 

[TheDeanAbides]

Max Homa is pretty textbook. He has almost a perfect 90* at P3.

 

Nobody advocates an early wrist set as such. It's more about getting them set in sequence and somewhere close to creating a 90* angle between club and left arm at P3. There's wiggle room, though, but not a huge amount for decent sequencing. 

 

When we say 'early' we mean earlier than the player in question is doing it - probably because they've massively overdone a one piece takeaway. So, it's not about early or late, but instead about properly sequenced. 

 

Edit: is one better than the other? A properly sequenced swing that requires fewer compensations is 'better' for most players. What tour pro outliers do is irrelevant. 

Edited July 8 by TheDeanAbides

[shankasaurus rex]

 "Early" wrist set is a crucial part of my swing. Without it, I end up struggling to get everything in position prior to the downswing, and usually overswing as a result. For me, an early wrist set simplifies sequencing, and allows me to focus on rotation, which is something I struggle with. 

 

As a feel, it's effectively the Nick Faldo drill (set wrists, rotate up, rotate back through the ball). In reality it happens a touch later, but not much, likely fractionally before P3. 

 

YMMV

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, shankasaurus rex said:

 "Early" wrist set is a crucial part of my swing. Without it, I end up struggling to get everything in position prior to the downswing, and usually overswing as a result. For me, an early wrist set simplifies sequencing, and allows me to focus on rotation, which is something I struggle with. 

 

As a feel, it's effectively the Nick Faldo drill (set wrists, rotate up, rotate back through the ball). In reality it happens a touch later, but not much, likely fractionally before P3. 

 

YMMV

Yes, I have to feel like I'm setting my wrists as my first move, but it doesn't look like that. Decades of one piece takeaway nonsense to overcome there.

[GoGoErky]

9 minutes ago, shankasaurus rex said:

 "Early" wrist set is a crucial part of my swing. Without it, I end up struggling to get everything in position prior to the downswing, and usually overswing as a result. For me, an early wrist set simplifies sequencing, and allows me to focus on rotation, which is something I struggle with. 

 

As a feel, it's effectively the Nick Faldo drill (set wrists, rotate up, rotate back through the ball). In reality it happens a touch later, but not much, likely fractionally before P3. 

 

YMMV

Late wrist set definitely impacts sequencing. Monte has talked about this on several occasions, so not surprising you experience that when not done early.

 

 

[getitdaily]

Earlier wrist set is better so long as they're set in the correct direction and amount.

 

Somewhere between the faldo drill and scotty sheffler. 

[sundaypins]

50 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

Yesterday a friend sent me a vid of Max Homa's swing.  I don't see those vids that analyze tour players swings and explain technique, but when I saw Homa's swing in slow motion it was kind of mesmerizing.  

 

For general swing context.  Yes, his swing is a thing of beauty.  Find balance first, worry about wrists later. 

 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

39 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

For general swing context.  Yes, his swing is a thing of beauty.  Find balance first, worry about wrists later. 

 

 

 

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. Better wrist conditions balances the club and all the momentum it generates on its journey. 

[rsballer10]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Yes, I have to feel like I'm setting my wrists as my first move, but it doesn't look like that. Decades of one piece takeaway nonsense to overcome there.

I feel ya on that one. I'm working on correcting what is a textbook one-piece move myself. Hips, shoulders and hands turn in one piece, and by hip high the club is flat and to the inside. Textbook!  😂

 

I didn't do well with the Faldo drill. Others may, but for me and my swing faults, it's still too easy to roll the forearms too much, and be too flat going back.

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

I feel ya on that one. I'm working on correcting what is a textbook one-piece move myself. Hips, shoulders and hands turn in one piece, and by hip high the club is flat and to the inside. Textbook!  😂

 

I didn't do well with the Faldo drill. Others may, but for me and my swing faults, it's still too easy to roll the forearms too much, and be too flat going back.

I'd imagine that you have to feel like you need to roll them the other way?

[MK7Golf21]

Homa doesn't have a 90 wrist set at p3 based on the video in this thread.

 

 

[rsballer10]

8 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I'd imagine that you have to feel like you need to roll them the other way?

Pretty much. Basically keep the left wrist flat/right wrist bent but get the club steep and across the line as early as possible p3-3.5. What really happens is the club sets in front of my body instead of behind it.

[sundaypins]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The two are not mutually exclusive. Better wrist conditions balances the club and all the momentum it generates on its journey. 

 

We first need to balance us off the ball.  The better and sooner than happens the more it opens the possibility of choosing a preference between early and late sets.  A club generates momentum?  

Edited July 8 by sundaypins

[rsballer10]

6 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

We first need to balance us off the ball.

what does this mean?

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, naval2006 said:

I usually see threads on this forum about early wrist set during the takeaway.  It's like an in thing at WRX.  

 

Yesterday a friend sent me a vid of Max Homa's swing.  I don't see those vids that analyze tour players swings and explain technique, but when I saw Homa's swing in slow motion it was kind of mesmerizing.  

 

Apart from the beauty of his swing, what drew my attention most was how straight his hands and wrists are during the takeaway, a la Nicklaus. 

 

My question to the coaches here is if early wrist set is better than one piece takeaway or it all depends on the player's ability and natural tendencies. 

Early wrist set is better when a player sets late/poorly because you need to learn "how" before you can really dial in "when". Homa is a bit of an outlier, he sets later than most. However when he does, he does so "correctly". A vast majority of average golfers that take the club away like Homa end up flopping over the line, overswinging, or generally losing the club at the top. You have to have very strong hands to set late and set "right", and you can't learn "right" until you stop doing it passively/poorly. Just like the sequence of pressure shifting, wrist set is a thing you need to learn how to actively do correctly *if* you're doing it wrong, which most are. It's far simpler to get things set in the right place earlier and then turn to the top a'la the Faldo Drill than it is to get someone to completely change their wrist conditions in an otherwise full swing. 

As for it being an "in thing", IMO it was never an "out" thing, it's just that SO many people do it wrong that it warrants taking the shortest possible path to fixing it via getting it set early so the player knows what it's supposed to feel like, because...
 

 

2 hours ago, sundaypins said:

Find balance first, worry about wrists later.

...good luck finding balance when you don't have control of the club. When people get the club into bad positions due to poor hand/wrist fundamentals it cascades down into every part of the swing and for many acts like a regulator keeping them from changing other moves. This is especially true for the chronic overswingers that are forced to spend their entire downswing trying to unwind a tangled mess of late wrist set, overrotation of the shoulders, and often bad sequencing on top of that. More than anything adult golfers need to learn how to use their hands FIRST, not "worry about it later". 

[TheDeanAbides]

20 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

We first need to balance us off the ball.  The better and sooner than happens the more it opens the possibility of choosing a preference between early and late sets.  A club generates momentum?  

The swinging club generates a huge force. Swinging it on a funky plane makes it harder to counterbalance. 

[ferrispgm]

To echo what @Valtiel is saying....I am someone who has always had a very late wrist set and as a result, my entire sequence was off.... arms late lift leading to some over run in the backswing and over loaded across my chest and then couldn't get them to unload properly in the downswing so I get a little flippy at the bottom and stand up out of it a bit to make room for the flip.  This past clinic (after addressing other issues in years past) Monte address the late wrist set.   Been working on it since February and the swing feels easier and speed is up significantly.  My struggle now is actually hitting it to the back or over greens.  

 

I know sequence is a big thing but I didn't realize how much of a difference it can really make to not only speed but how little effort it requires. Out of all the things I have worked on over the last 7 or 8 years, earlier wrist set, proper wrist angles in transition and getting left sooner have paid the biggest dividends hands down.

[rsballer10]

30 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

...good luck finding balance when you don't have control of the club. When people get the club into bad positions due to poor hand/wrist fundamentals it cascades down into every part of the swing and for many acts like a regulator keeping them from changing other moves. This is especially true for the chronic overswingers that are forced to spend their entire downswing trying to unwind a tangled mess of late wrist set, overrotation of the shoulders, and often bad sequencing on top of that. More than anything adult golfers need to learn how to use their hands FIRST, not "worry about it later". 

This has been my experience. It's not like anyone is saying the pivot is not important. It's just that you can't pivot your way into fixing these issues.

[Valtiel]

Just now, rsballer10 said:

This has been my experience. It's not like anyone is saying the pivot is not important. It's just that you can't pivot your way into fixing these issues.

Or worse, a correct pivot actually breaks things *further* and thus disincentivizes you from doing things correctly. It's one of the terrible traps in the golf swing; one thing done incorrectly almost always has a compensation that involves doing something else incorrectly to make the first thing work. Change one of those things and you get worse until you address both (or more). 

[sundaypins]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

 Better wrist conditions balances the club and all the momentum it generates on its journey. 

 

1 hour ago, sundaypins said:

  A club generates momentum?  

 

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The swinging club generates a huge force. 

 

The club has momentum, it cannot generate momentum.  I'm not a physics hound but I don't believe a swinging club generates force either.  We are the giver, the club is the taker.  

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

 

The club has momentum, it cannot generate momentum.  I'm not a physics hound but I don't believe a swinging club generates force either.  We are the giver, the club is the taker.  

Okay, pedant, the golf swing, which includes the club, generates a lot of force. If you're not swinging it efficiently it's harder to balance.

[sundaypins]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

...good luck finding balance when you don't have control of the club.

 

...good luck controlling the club when you aren't balanced.  Controlling a club off the ball is not needed. 

[tx_bayou]

4 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

...good luck controlling the club when you aren't balanced.  Controlling a club off the ball is not needed. 

What 

[sundaypins]

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

what does this mean?

 

18 minutes ago, tx_bayou said:

What 

 

Thread wandering off topic so last thread post, good luck.   This is balancing off the ball.  Been around for ages.  Nicklaus, Tiger's dad, everyone says hit it as hard as you want all long as you stay balanced.  It starts here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rsballer10]

12 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

Thread wandering off topic so last thread post, good luck.   This is balancing off the ball.  Been around for ages.  Nicklaus, Tiger's dad, everyone says hit it as hard as you want all long as you stay balanced.  It starts here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

35 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

Nicklaus, Tiger's dad, everyone says hit it as hard as you want all long as you stay balanced.

Kind of a straw man since nobody said the opposite

[tx_bayou]

53 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

Thread wandering off topic so last thread post, good luck.   This is balancing off the ball.  Been around for ages.  Nicklaus, Tiger's dad, everyone says hit it as hard as you want all long as you stay balanced.  It starts here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t think anyone disagrees that you  want to stay balanced.

 

what does that have to do with:

” Controlling a club off the ball is not needed. “
 

also, what does that even mean? 

[TheDeanAbides]

21 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Kind of a straw man since nobody said the opposite

You get in trouble for pointing out logical fallacies around here. 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

Thread wandering off topic so last thread post, good luck.   This is balancing off the ball.  Been around for ages.  Nicklaus, Tiger's dad, everyone says hit it as hard as you want all long as you stay balanced.  It starts here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, sundaypins said:

 

 

 

The club has momentum, it cannot generate momentum.  I'm not a physics hound but I don't believe a swinging club generates force either.  We are the giver, the club is the taker.  

Presumably then we can just stop at impact.